X-Tren hairloss?

[KgTomCat]

I have been doing some research on CEL X-Tren
19-Norandrosta-4,9 diene-3,17 dione
I know hairloss depends on genetics, some people have told me it will not lead to hairloss, but my good friend (he is a chemist) said it will, due to the fact that it is already converted to DHT, is this correct
What are others own experiences?

 

[dustin06MR]

bump for this question... i just bought some...

 

[KgTomCat]

yes, BUMP BUMP BUMP

 

[jsheely]

I'm about to finish a 6 week solo run and no hair loss whatsoever. 5 days left. Cycle was 90/90/90/120/120/120. No libido loss either, which I find unusual. Only real sides I've noticed are oily skin and increased bp, but nothing too severe.

 

[Tomahawk88]

I used the same compound before and I did notice my hair falling out but I have really good hair genes on my mother's side so I wasn't too worried.

 

[KgTomCat]

I'm about to finish a 6 week solo run and no hair loss whatsoever. 5 days left. Cycle was 90/90/90/120/120/120. No libido loss either, which I find unusual. Only real sides I've noticed are oily skin and increased bp, but nothing too severe.

I used the same compound before and I did notice my hair falling out but I have really good hair genes on my mother's side so I wasn't too worried.

My mothers side has good hair genes too so idk if I should be worried, what gains did yall have? strength, size, or both?
I read about one guy gaining 12 pounds of LBM, then another only 5 pounds

 

[luclyluciano]

My hairline has receded at the sides, not sure if that's considdered hairloss.

 

[Tomahawk88]

I blew the hell up and my strength was insane. I loved it basically except for the libido killing. I was keeping up with my bodybuilding friend and our other workout partner was saying my back was getting bigger than his. My friend who did bodybuilding was BIG and lean so it was def a compliment worth taking.

 

[KgTomCat]

My hairline has receded at the sides, not sure if that's considdered hairloss.

yes I have some recession too...but its thick everywhere else, so I dont now know if this means 'shedding'-if anyone could explain more it would be great!

I blew the hell up and my strength was insane. I loved it basically except for the libido killing. I was keeping up with my bodybuilding friend and our other workout partner was saying my back was getting bigger than his. My friend who did bodybuilding was BIG and lean so it was def a compliment worth taking.

I want this lol :cheers:

 

[Tomahawk88]

Ya it was insane. It is what prompted me to pick up a few tren products. I am def stocked up. I just wish it didnt kill my libido so bad. I got so jacked and ripped but libido got scared I guess and ran away lol.

 

[KgTomCat]

Ya it was insane. It is what prompted me to pick up a few tren products. I am def stocked up. I just wish it didnt kill my libido so bad. I got so jacked and ripped but libido got scared I guess and ran away lol.

thats not too exciting, how old were u when u did it? PM me if you want

 

[UnrealMachine]

dude, tren killed my libido and i was on a half gram of test prop a week. I can live without a sex drive, and for everything else there's cialis, but the gyno made me stop.

I'd be much more worried about those than hairloss with this compound

 

[Tomahawk88]

21, I mean my libido took a dive pretty quick. I plan on running it again hopefully it doesnt happen again.

For me though the gains were insane. It is too tempting not to give it another go. I might try and pulse to see if that helps. I def have enough to play around with to see what I like best.

 

[KgTomCat]

dude, tren killed my libido and i was on a half gram of test prop a week. I can live without a sex drive, and for everything else there's cialis, but the gyno made me stop.

I'd be much more worried about those than hairloss with this compound

good point, just Ive never got gyno, Ive been shutdown once but everything came back, I just wanna keep my hair

 

[Tomahawk88]

good point, just Ive never got gyno, Ive been shutdown once but everything came back, I just wanna keep my hair

Become half asian with ur mom being the asian 1 :lol: When was the last time u saw an asian with hair loss issues?

 

[KgTomCat]

Become half asian with ur mom being the asian 1 :lol: When was the last time u saw an asian with hair loss issues?

true..too bad im american

 

[Tomahawk88]

Lol well its ok. Maybe try some Toco-8 by Primordial Performance. Could always try their TRS. $30 off right now. The Toco-8 is supposed to help with hair loss especially on cycle.

 

[mj34]

Even with the test your sex drive plummeted. I decided to give it a go. Im using both epi and tren during my trt phase. I have used tren ace and it didnt kill my sex drive but high doses of deca did. Just goes to show how we respond differently.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Even with the test your sex drive plummeted. I decided to give it a go. Im using both epi and tren during my trt phase. I have used tren ace and it didnt kill my sex drive but high doses of deca did. Just goes to show how we respond differently.

Very true. I didn't have any libido decreases on any of the other steroids I've tried, Tren was the only one.

Weird that deca would kill it more than tren for you. I have read about some crazy tren responders who can handle high doses and get a libido boost from it though.

 

[mj34]

Honestly, I didnt get any bad sides but a little insomnia and I always fear the dreaded tren cough which "knock on wood" I have gotten that yet. Yeah, I wouldnt say I got a libido increase from it but it really didnt impair my sex drive either. Deca at 500-600 though tended to really mess with it. When I had access to Proviron I would run it every cycle and I never had libido issues, in fact; I had an insane sex drive and it really controlled alll of my issues with bloat as well. Masteron works okay in these areas but it doesnt replace Proviron's insane libido boost. So, UMachine i'm really new to the whole DS and I have only ran Phera which I liked quite a bit as it increased my appetite in a similiar way that EQ does. However; as far as the Tren(19-nor) and Epistane goes what results do people normally get with it? I have heard many say that epi is comparable to winny or var and I have only been on a week so I cant make that call. I love winny and var in fact, when I ran them in conjunction at 50/50 my strength gains were like no other and I swear it was for me better than test susp and tren ace. I got my 405 bench for 3 reps which prior to this I was stuck at 365. Ok, what is an effective dose of the 19-nor tren to run? I hear all kinds of things from 90 all the way to 240 so I really dont know what to think? I appreciate your help bro. Thanks in advance!

 

[mj34]

Yeah, you are right, most do have a worst libido crash from Tren than with Deca. I forget to mention as part of my trt protocol I also use Deca year round at 150mgs every 10th day so I ran tren and deca with no problems but then again the deca dose was so low. I always run my test two times higher when using tren or deca. This also helps me with libido problems. I have found that if I dont run the test two times higher than I tend to run into libidio issues. Others only have to use 100mgs to 200mgs more of extra test.

 

[KgTomCat]

thats alot of test ha

 

[UnrealMachine]

Honestly, I didnt get any bad sides but a little insomnia and I always fear the dreaded tren cough which "knock on wood" I have gotten that yet. Yeah, I wouldnt say I got a libido increase from it but it really didnt impair my sex drive either. Deca at 500-600 though tended to really mess with it. When I had access to Proviron I would run it every cycle and I never had libido issues, in fact; I had an insane sex drive and it really controlled alll of my issues with bloat as well. Masteron works okay in these areas but it doesnt replace Proviron's insane libido boost. So, UMachine i'm really new to the whole DS and I have only ran Phera which I liked quite a bit as it increased my appetite in a similiar way that EQ does. However; as far as the Tren(19-nor) and Epistane goes what results do people normally get with it? I have heard many say that epi is comparable to winny or var and I have only been on a week so I cant make that call. I love winny and var in fact, when I ran them in conjunction at 50/50 my strength gains were like no other and I swear it was for me better than test susp and tren ace. I got my 405 bench for 3 reps which prior to this I was stuck at 365. Ok, what is an effective dose of the 19-nor tren to run? I hear all kinds of things from 90 all the way to 240 so I really dont know what to think? I appreciate your help bro. Thanks in advance!

What do you think of mast @ high doses

To answer yoru questions and try to stay more on topic, epi/tren are good for hardness and vascularity, for most people they are better for strength than mass but some people respond by getting pretty massive weight gain. Epi is supposed to be anti-estrogenic but i only see the effects in some people. Tren is great if you can handle progestins, it's commonly dosed at 90mg, with 60mg being low and 120 being on the high side.

 

[mj34]

Thanks for the feedback. I like Mast a lot. It's always been a great compound for hardening, aggression, strength, vascularity, full muscles and helps with the sex drive. When I run it with Test and EQ or Tren I get extremely vascular and my muscles are full and rock hard. I have always ran 100mgs to 150mgsEOD, unless I was using Test Susp or Tren then I would run it ED. 525 is the highest I ran. Of course, when I used it in doses of 525 the results were better and I ran it when my bodyfat was about 10 percent and I was shredded. At the time I weighed only 205 and people thought I weighed around 225 but that is due to how lean I was and the effects of Masteron. It gets pretty expensive to run it at high doses as I'm sure you know. I have heard many say that at 700mgs EW it was the best compound they have ever used and they believe that if you are not running it at those doses then you are wasting it but I get good results with 350-400EW its a wonderful compound especially after a long bulker , I will transition into a cutter using winny, masteron, test susp and/or tren ace and the results are truly amazing.

 

[mj34]

Being that I have only used Tren Ace, the 19 nor version of this will probably be on the weak side, when you put it up against Tren Ace. I know Tren Ace is an awesome body transformation compound that really helped widen my shoulders and lats. Some say that is attributed to the fact that Tren stimulates IGF-1 in the body, how true this is, idk?? At Outlaw, the guy from Primordial Performance was comparing Tren to Tren Ace and said its just like mild verson of Tren Ace at doses of 90-120mgsED it works out to about 120mgs of Tren AceEW. Im relatively new to the DS though so I get lost easy. I know that Phera is a great compound and I actually prefer it to Dbol. I have a Phera/Tren combo that I stocked up on with the Phera at 10mgs and the Tren@40mgs each capsule, so it should be a nice addition in my cycles.

 

[mj34]

What do you think of mast @ high doses

To answer yoru questions and try to stay more on topic, epi/tren are good for hardness and vascularity, for most people they are better for strength than mass but some people respond by getting pretty massive weight gain. Epi is supposed to be anti-estrogenic but i only see the effects in some people. Tren is great if you can handle progestins, it's commonly dosed at 90mg, with 60mg being low and 120 being on the high side.

I meant to quote all of these but I guess I hit the wrong button. Is trenadrol nothing more than 19-nor estra compound? I know there has been a debate for a long while over this. To the OP I apologize, I didn't mean to hijack your thread I just wanted to learn about the DS Tren as well.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Trenadrol is something weird. Someone just said it tested out as oral tren. i don't remember what it really is, Kilosports won't tell anybody (probably supports it being oral tren, must be low dosed).

PH tren at 90-120mg ed has to be more than 120mg of tren ace a week, it must be closer to 300 surely?

Sounds like u got the ultra mass stack, 30mg PP and 120mg of tren a day will have you FLYING bro...

About the mast thanks for the feedback, i'm going to start my inject cycle at 750 test and 600 mast. It's a lot but i seem to need high doses. I'm very glad to hear that you'll get strength from mast. I have a lot so i'm going to ramp up the dose on it way high and see what it does.. should be fun

 

[mj34]

Trenadrol is something weird. Someone just said it tested out as oral tren. i don't remember what it really is, Kilosports won't tell anybody (probably supports it being oral tren, must be low dosed).

PH tren at 90-120mg ed has to be more than 120mg of tren ace a week, it must be closer to 300 surely?

Sounds like u got the ultra mass stack, 30mg PP and 120mg of tren a day will have you FLYING bro...

About the mast thanks for the feedback, i'm going to start my inject cycle at 750 test and 600 mast. It's a lot but i seem to need high doses. I'm very glad to hear that you'll get strength from mast. I have a lot so i'm going to ramp up the dose on it way high and see what it does.. should be fun

Sounds good bro. 750 of Test isn't excessive. It is normally what I run every cycle and sometimes I ramp it up to a gram for a short period of time. I keep using the doses that keep giving me results. Like you already know, anabolics are only a piece of the puzzle. You have to have your sleep, training, and diet dialed in. As far as the Mast, and from the way you look from your avatar, you outta look peeled to the bone brother!!!

 

[mj34]

Trenadrol is something weird. Someone just said it tested out as oral tren. i don't remember what it really is, Kilosports won't tell anybody (probably supports it being oral tren, must be low dosed).

PH tren at 90-120mg ed has to be more than 120mg of tren ace a week, it must be closer to 300 surely?

Sounds like u got the ultra mass stack, 30mg PP and 120mg of tren a day will have you FLYING bro...

About the mast thanks for the feedback, i'm going to start my inject cycle at 750 test and 600 mast. It's a lot but i seem to need high doses. I'm very glad to hear that you'll get strength from mast. I have a lot so i'm going to ramp up the dose on it way high and see what it does.. should be fun

So does trenadrol produce some different kind of results? I bought a bottle to try it out at 3 pills for 20 days; after that I would buy more depending on how well it worked. I got it awhile back for 28.99 and now its super high price. Im running the trenadrol, finavol, and epi. For the first week I kept the tren doses at 90mgsED and 30mgs of Epi. The following few weeks I will probably run the epi@40ED (I have both havoc and chaparral labs) and the tren@120ED. Yeah, I got the APS Ultra Mass Stack for like 35 dollars a bottle due to pricematching and I bought 5 of them. Im also looking into getting phera powder and making a liquid phera by using everclear. So you really think the trenadrol has a low dose of oral tren. Oral tren is some harsh ****, worst than halotestin (which by the way I would like to try).

 

[KgTomCat]

^so your injecting 3 or 4 days a week, 750 or a gram???

 

[UnrealMachine]

Trenadrol does produce different results than "tren" but not by a whole lot. I gave away the rest of mine because the product didn't seem to do **** for me (at all). I am not sure if trenadrol is oral tren but there's only a small list of things it could really be.

Also @ mj34 i was a little leaner in my avatar more like 8% now i think im like 9% but i'm about 6-7 pounds heavier and went thru post cycle so it's all good.

@ Kgtomcat i'm sorry for derailing your thread so bad, but to answer your question i'm going to inject MWF, start at 1mL of sust250 and 1mL of mastE 200 for 750test/600 mast.

I actually planned out the cycle to include pretty ridiculous doses... I seem to need high doses and if i DO get sides (which i don't anticipate) then I will simply keep the dose lower and have oil leftover. If the sides don't manifest themselves I'm going for it. The dosing is very aggressive, meant to be a lean bulk with the last 4 weeks being a hardcore recomp/cut. I like to have high goals for cycles so i'm shooting for 225-230 @ 8% bodyfat as my cycle goal here.

attached a word file... yes that's 1.2g of mast... har har har.

 

[mj34]

Trenadrol does produce different results than "tren" but not by a whole lot. I gave away the rest of mine because the product didn't seem to do **** for me (at all). I am not sure if trenadrol is oral tren but there's only a small list of things it could really be.

Also @ mj34 i was a little leaner in my avatar more like 8% now i think im like 9% but i'm about 6-7 pounds heavier and went thru post cycle so it's all good.

@ Kgtomcat i'm sorry for derailing your thread so bad, but to answer your question i'm going to inject MWF, start at 1mL of sust250 and 1mL of mastE 200 for 750test/600 mast.

I actually planned out the cycle to include pretty ridiculous doses... I seem to need high doses and if i DO get sides (which i don't anticipate) then I will simply keep the dose lower and have oil leftover. If the sides don't manifest themselves I'm going for it. The dosing is very aggressive, meant to be a lean bulk with the last 4 weeks being a hardcore recomp/cut. I like to have high goals for cycles so i'm shooting for 225-230 @ 8% bodyfat as my cycle goal here.

attached a word file... yes that's 1.2g of mast... har har har.

No bro, those are good doses; not excessive at all. It is excessive when someone who doesn't do their research and is a beginner uses over a gram of gear per week without proper knowledge and a proper PCT. You are on the right track and from your body style I can tell you will respond good to the Masteron. If you could handle tren ace it would be that much better. You can tell you have diet and training dialed in bro, so I would like to see the results of this cycle. Do a b4 and after pick and u will see the difference. I would like to see the transformation as well. Good luck.

 

[UnrealMachine]

No bro, those are good doses; not excessive at all. It is excessive when someone who doesn't do their research and is a beginner uses over a gram of gear per week without proper knowledge and a proper PCT. You are on the right track and from your body style I can tell you will respond good to the Masteron. If you could handle tren ace it would be that much better. You can tell you have diet and training dialed in bro, so I would like to see the results of this cycle. Do a b4 and after pick and u will see the difference. I would like to see the transformation as well. Good luck.

Thanks, yeah my diet/training has been pretty on-point for the last 3 years, but the last few months in particular i've gotten even stricter on my diet and it's helping with the results.

About tren, I would have used it but I am afraid that I am very susceptible to the "progestin gyno" as i got it very quickly from the prohormone "tren" and max-LMG as well and AI's couldn't stop it. I obviously wanted to try deca and tren but I am avoiding them until I learn more about preventing prolactin gyno via some combination of pramipexole, caber, B6, p5p, vitex, etc. etc. dunno what it'll take, maybe I'll never be able to run those compounds.

First time i used test it was 700mg ew and i was pretty disappointed because my rate of gains was barely faster than natural and the main effect was the libido increase. With the exception of gyno and backpumps I am not susceptible to any sides so with injectables not hittin' my liver I feel pretty safe in dosing very high. I have read about mast used in excess of 1g as pre-contest, and I am really trying to achieve greater muscle maturity, strength, and density at this point. I don't want to get much bigger... This whole cycle may just turn into a recomp, i'd love to be 220 and 7% and work on strength... I have trouble maintaining low BF so i thought i should shift some focus to increasing LBM...

Anyway, i am planning to take weekly update pictures, probably won't log this but i'll keep the peeps here informed. You'll want to see the results, they'll be good, since my last recomp i've been looking like an actual bodybuilder, I'm real damn excited for this.

Sorry i took your thread Kgtomcat! lol.

 

[mj34]

Thanks, yeah my diet/training has been pretty on-point for the last 3 years, but the last few months in particular i've gotten even stricter on my diet and it's helping with the results.

About tren, I would have used it but I am afraid that I am very susceptible to the "progestin gyno" as i got it very quickly from the prohormone "tren" and max-LMG as well and AI's couldn't stop it. I obviously wanted to try deca and tren but I am avoiding them until I learn more about preventing prolactin gyno via some combination of pramipexole, caber, B6, p5p, vitex, etc. etc. dunno what it'll take, maybe I'll never be able to run those compounds.

First time i used test it was 700mg ew and i was pretty disappointed because my rate of gains was barely faster than natural and the main effect was the libido increase. With the exception of gyno and backpumps I am not susceptible to any sides so with injectables not hittin' my liver I feel pretty safe in dosing very high. I have read about mast used in excess of 1g as pre-contest, and I am really trying to achieve greater muscle maturity, strength, and density at this point. I don't want to get much bigger... This whole cycle may just turn into a recomp, i'd love to be 220 and 7% and work on strength... I have trouble maintaining low BF so i thought i should shift some focus to increasing LBM...

Anyway, i am planning to take weekly update pictures, probably won't log this but i'll keep the peeps here informed. You'll want to see the results, they'll be good, since my last recomp i've been looking like an actual bodybuilder, I'm real damn excited for this.

Sorry i took your thread Kgtomcat! lol.

Yeah sorry we kind of took over, oops!

 

[defyance]

I just finished a 4 week cycle of X-tren. I noticed more hair on my towel after a shower and it feels thinner. my hair genes are really good though, so im not worried. Great gains! Weight: 202lbs --> 218lbs
bench: 315lbs--> 365lbs

 

[KgTomCat]

its fine guys lol...Im still not sure if Im going to do the x-tren

 

[Harry Manback]

So once your hair falls out and or gets thinner, is it game over for your hair after that or will it thinken up or even more of a pipe dream, grow back? After cycle that is...

 

[Tomahawk88]

So once your hair falls out and or gets thinner, is it game over for your hair after that or will it thinken up or even more of a pipe dream, grow back? After cycle that is...

Probably depends on where ur hair is at and ur genes. I am rocking a bushy/shaggy head of hair and I had some pretty bad shedding.

 

[KgTomCat]

good question, Im not sure, I got pretty thin from my Hdrol/MMV2 cycle, but now Im thick...:think:

 

[De Santo]

good question, Im not sure, I got pretty thin from my Hdrol/MMV2 cycle, but now Im thick...:think:

Did you use any protective measures like spiro or azelaic acid/minoxidol?

 

[KgTomCat]

Did you use any protective measures like spiro or azelaic acid/minoxidol?

nope, just Saw Palmetto

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Probably better off starting your cycle after you get a hair cut!

I'm planning on running some Tren as well.......if I see hair loss i'll just discontinue use and beeline straight into PCT.

 

[De Santo]

If you run X-tren you may want to at least use Nizoral EOD...it can't hurt to try it out.

My hair was thinning a little so I started using nizoral and minoxidil regularly and experienced good regrowth so far. When I run x-tren I will definitely add in the spiro and azelaic acid.

Just like the DarkHalf said...you could always just stop and go to PCT immediately if you're shedding like crazy.

 

[Harry Manback]

I forget who, but someone on here once said: "Muscle > Hair"

 

[KgTomCat]

I know nothing about nizoral and minoxidil

 

[KgTomCat]

I forget who, but someone on here once said: "Muscle > Hair"

I guess your right...do you think girls think the same way :think: lol

 

[Tomahawk88]

I guess your right...do you think girls think the same way :think: lol

I plan on shaving my head soon. Right now I am close to having enough to pull off a midget asian hulk haircut so if u really want some hair I can just mail mine to u :icon_lol:

 

[KgTomCat]

^lol. as tall as I am no one ever see the top of my head anyway...just the receding hairline that sucks

 

[Thinker]

I guess your right...do you think girls think the same way :think: lol

Neil Strauss regarded as one of the best pick up artists in the world is bald. Further running a x-tren cycle will supress you meaning less testosterone available to convert to DHT. A progestin only cycle usually decreases DHT. Put the h-t-t-p in front of the following link for the pathway.

img.medscape.com/fullsize/migrated/410/576/smj9307.02.fig3.jpg

 

[TheDarkHalf]

Neil Strauss regarded as one of the best pick up artists in the world is bald. Further running a x-tren cycle will supress you meaning less testosterone available to convert to DHT. A progestin only cycle usually decreases DHT. Put the h-t-t-p in front of the following link for the pathway.

img.medscape.com/fullsize/migrated/410/576/smj9307.02.fig3.jpg