What is everyones opinion on Metaformin

[maggmaster]

Often used to treat diabetes and proven to lower blood sugar. Is this a useful prescription drug for bodybuilding purposes? Has anyone used it? Liked it? Just curious

 

[raybravo]

yes , have tried it , is a little harsh , but good pumps , and one does gain well on it . but u get bad shits initially and its supposed to be bad in a few ways , but the real world results say it works , definitely ! so worth a try for sure, use it with meals .

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Effects of short term metformin administration on androgens in normal men.

Shegem NS, Nasir AM, Jbour AK, Batieha AM, El-Khateeb MS, Ajlouni KM.

National Center for Diabetes Endocrinology and Genetics, Jordan University Hospital, Amman, Jordan.

OBJECTIVE: To study the effect of metformin on androgens in normal men. METHODS: A total of 12 healthy males volunteered to participate in the study. A blood sample was obtained from each of them and analyzed for the following: Testosterone (total and free), sex hormone binding globulin dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate, 17-hydroxyprogesterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle stimulating hormone. In addition, each participant was subjected to a glucose tolerance test and his insulin level was measured. Metformin 850 mg twice daily for 2-weeks was given to each subject after which the above tests were repeated. A paired t-test was used to assess the statistical significance of any observed differences before and after metformin. RESULTS: After metformin administration, there was a significant reduction in serum level of total testosterone (p=0.0001), free testosterone (P=0.002), and 17 hydroxyprogesterone (p=0.0001). There was also a significant increase in serum level of sex hormone binding globulin (p=0.009) and dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate (P=0.0008). Serum levels of luteinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone showed no significant changes. Similarly, there were no changes in fasting plasma glucose, fasting serum insulin, weight, or blood pressure. CONCLUSION: Metformin administration was associated with a reduction in total testosterone, free testosterone, and 17-hydroxyprogesterone and an increase in sex hormone binding globulin and dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate in normal males. The clinical significance of these findings needs further investigation.



I'll pass

 

[raybravo]

yeah , thats there bobo , but when u try it , u'll see it works pretty well bro . infact, i prsonally prefer avandia over this . butthe real world results are there for evreyone to see .

 

[Dr of Golf]

Why screw with Metformin when you can just use slin? Works a heck of a lot better.

 

[raybravo]

metformin and slin are not similar at all ! wtf are talking about ?

 

[Sir Foxx]

Back in '96 I had heard of Metformin but really didn't know anything about it. Just from a cursory reading I hypothesized that I could greatly increase creatine absorption using it. During an appointment with my Dr., I brought up the idea of using metformin this way. My Dr. was shocked and said I was going to end up killing myself. The funny thing was, she said that if I did go through with it, could I keep a log and relay that to her as she was interested in sport supplementation. Needless to say I never used it, but it was kind of an interesting reaction from my Dr.

 

[Dr of Golf]

metformin and slin are not similar at all ! wtf are talking about ?

Really? So, they both don't lower blood sugar levels? Hmmmm. Me thinks you need to do a lot more research on the two.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

You think all insulin does is lower blood sugar? Me thinks YOU need to do a lot more research.


Hmmm....a glucose dispersal agent vs. possibly the most anabolic hormone in the body...

Hmmm....an agent used for fat loss vs. one that can cause extreme fat gain....

You sure you want to make this comparison?

 

[raybravo]

Really? So, they both don't lower blood sugar levels? Hmmmm. Me thinks you need to do a lot more research on the two.

lol , as ridiculous as ur comments are , i will shut up if u show me i am wrong and guide me in the right direction to do my "research" !ok ?

 

[bigpetefox]

Glucophage (Metformin) can cause lactic acidosis, this is the dangerous side effect you should look out for.. If I had time to search, I'm sure there's a study that shows duration of use to see such ill effect, and what dose does it..

 

[raybravo]

basically , as long as one is within 2 gm dose , he is not running the risk of lactic acidosis , beyond 3 gms ,one is definitely running that risk . anyway , not having lactic acidosis doesnt mean much , the person is still going to carry higher than normal levels of lactic acid in the body on metformin which may not be very good . but this is all just talk , like i said before , it works pretty decent when used .

 

[Dr of Golf]

You think all insulin does is lower blood sugar? Me thinks YOU need to do a lot more research.

Hmmm....a glucose dispersal agent vs. possibly the most anabolic hormone in the body...

Hmmm....an agent used for fat loss vs. one that can cause extreme fat gain....

You sure you want to make this comparison?

lol , as ridiculous as ur comments are , i will shut up if u show me i am wrong and guide me in the right direction to do my "research" !ok

I never stated that insulin and Metformin ONLY lower blood sugar levels ... someone else did. I've been taking both Metformin and/or insulin all of my life (I have diabetes) and I think I know a lot more about the two than ya'll .... but I am not going to get into a pissing contest with people on a board ... in cyberspace. There are too many REAL LIFE things to worry about.

So, I'll bow to your vast "board knowledge".

You are right ..... I am wrong.

 

[maggmaster]

Dr, I wouldnt say you are wrong, metformin does cause a decrease in blood glucose levels and it doe scause an increase in nutrient storage. So in a way it is like baby slin. Slin is its far more dangerous big cousin. Lactic acidosis is what worries me as I saw it on the sides list. I may get some however for whwn I come off cycle in the spring. what do you guys think 600 mg /day post workout?

 

[bigpetefox]

I never stated that insulin and Metformin ONLY lower blood sugar levels ... someone else did. I've been taking both Metformin and/or insulin all of my life (I have diabetes) and I think I know a lot more about the two than ya'll .... but I am not going to get into a pissing contest with people on a board ... in cyberspace. There are too many REAL LIFE things to worry about.

So, I'll bow to your vast "board knowledge".

You are right ..... I am wrong.

Let's remain civil, brother.. Of course, you using metformin for health reasons would be alot different from me using it for contest prep.. Mainly, this forum is for that purpose, if not you'd have AIDS patients here arguing with nandrolone users about wasting prevention, when we just wanna increase our lean mass..

 

[Dr of Golf]

Let's remain civil, brother..

You know I will, bro. You know I will.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I never stated that insulin and Metformin ONLY lower blood sugar levels ... someone else did. I've been taking both Metformin and/or insulin all of my life (I have diabetes) and I think I know a lot more about the two than ya'll .... but I am not going to get into a pissing contest with people on a board ... in cyberspace. There are too many REAL LIFE things to worry about.

So, I'll bow to your vast "board knowledge".

You are right ..... I am wrong.

But you didn't say anything else other than that either. Plus BB'ers don't use insulin to lower blood sugar. They use it because it causes hyperinsulinemia and glyocgen supercompinsation which will increase protein synthesis many times of what a normal physiological insulin response could do. This is something Metformin will NOT do. You can claim to know more about these things just because you've used them all your life but generally the pharmacology of them both are completely different, especially for those who are not diabetic. Suggesting to Ray he needs to research was just funny. According to your logic ALA, VS, and Green Tea are equal to insulin since they all increase nutrient partitioning and lower blood glucose levels. Its a ridiculous comparison to those who are not diabetic.

You don't have to bow to anyone but you seem to have some sort of chip on your shoulder about something.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I've been taking both Metformin and/or insulin all of my life (I have diabetes) and I think I know a lot more about the two than ya'll .... :

 

[Dr of Golf]

but you seem to have some sort of chip on your shoulder about something.

Yep, I did that day and I put the proverbial foot in mouth while typing. If I pissed anyone off here, I do apologize. Guess I took too much test this week.

 

[Skye]

Glucophage (Metformin) can cause lactic acidosis, this is the dangerous side effect you should look out for.. If I had time to search, I'm sure there's a study that shows duration of use to see such ill effect, and what dose does it..

THANK YOU!!! You are the first person I have seen on the boards to have mentioned this right off. I am diabetic and HAVE to take the stuff. Otherwise I would never mess with it. If your not diabetic then side really outway the gains (JMO here). BTW lactic acidosis has a bout a 50% mortality rate to it, rare or not you need to consider it.

Also here are some other side, limp dick (not directly cause by but can agervate problems.) liver and kidney damage, and posibly kidney stones(there is debate on this). If you you don't need this guys I would not take it. JMO

 

[Skye]

Often used to treat diabetes and proven to lower blood sugar. Is this a useful prescription drug for bodybuilding purposes? Has anyone used it? Liked it? Just curious

BTW It doesn't necessarily lower blood sugar directly(that is more the side affect). It is usually prescribed to make the liver more sensitive to your blood sugar (reduce the amount of sugar your liver releases) and to reduce insulin resistance (supposedly the same mechanism but I don't think they really know).

In short metformin is use to improve the circulation of your blood sugar.

 

[maggmaster]

Huh interesting from looking at its profiles I would assume otherwise but good to know. Guess I might just stick to megadosing ALA.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Yep, I did that day and I put the proverbial foot in mouth while typing. If I pissed anyone off here, I do apologize. Guess I took too much test this week.

No prob. That problem occurs with me but its usually tren's fault.

 

[Sir Foxx]

Got this off of Steroidology

A good study and a clear explanation about why add glucophage in your cutting cycles.
Metformine activate the AMPK.This enzymatic switch is activated with fisical training and send the imput to burn more fats and more carbs to the muscle fibers to produce more energy.
This is a lately discover of the professor Grahame Hardie,at Cellular Signalling next to Dundee univeristy.
Also metformin is know as a good appetite suppressor.
And lastly here you are a study.
Metformin inhibits catecholamine-stimulated lipolysis in obese, hyperinsulinemic, hypertensive subjects in subcutaneous adipose tissue: an in situ microdialysis study.

AU: Flechtner-Mors-M; Ditschuneit-HH; Jenkinson-CP; Alt-A; Adler-G
AD: Department of Internal Medicine, University of Ulm, Germany. [email protected]
SO: Diabet-Med. 1999 Dec; 16(12): 1000-6

AIMS: Metformin has been reported to decrease the plasma concentrations of non-esterified fatty acids in Type 2 diabetic subjects. This study investigated the effects of metformin on basal and catecholamine-stimulated lipolysis in abdominal subcutaneous adipose tissue of obese, hyperinsulinaemic, hypertensive subjects.

METHODS: Fourteen subjects with severe obesity (12 female, two male, age 35.4 +/- 4 years, body mass index 48.2 +/- 2 kg/m2, body fat mass 63.3 +/- 5 kg) were recruited.


Glycerol and lactate concentrations were determined in the presence of metformin and after administration of catecholamines using microdialysis.
Simultaneously, blood flow was assessed with the ethanol escape method.

RESULTS: Glycerol release was lowered by metformin during the 3-h experiment (P<0.01).
The lipolytic activity of catecholamines was suppressed when adipose tissue was pre-treated with metformin (P<0.001).


Lactate concentration increased after application of metformin (P<0.01) and catecholamines (P<0.001).
Blood flow was decreased in the presence of adrenaline (P < 0.01), but this effect was abolished by metformin.

CONCLUSIONS: The present data demonstrate the effects of metformin on lipolysis in subcutaneous adipose tissue in vivo.
In the large body fat mass of obese subjects, a reduction of lipolysis in adipose tissue may contribute to a decrease of VLDL synthesis in the liver resulting in a lowered plasma triglyceride concentration.

 

[corinthians]

You cant less metformin. Is like a multivitamin protein etc. I use it all year 850 mg tablet. On high carb meal 1/2 tablet pre training is ****ing good. Feel fuller. Other dose separate about 2 meals better 3. Use it!!

 

[T-Bone]

 

[bighulksmash]

11 year thread bump . Lovin it . Good knowledge! !!

 

[mr.cooper69]

I never stated that insulin and Metformin ONLY lower blood sugar levels ... someone else did. I've been taking both Metformin and/or insulin all of my life (I have diabetes) and I think I know a lot more about the two than ya'll .... but I am not going to get into a pissing contest with people on a board ... in cyberspace. There are too many REAL LIFE things to worry about.

So, I'll bow to your vast "board knowledge".

You are right ..... I am wrong.

They are right. They both lower blood sugar, but metformin cannot induce clinical hypoglycemia whereas insulin can. And besides lethality, insulin acts as a molecular switch for storage, whereas metformin activates AMPK on the opposite side of the metabolic spectrum. They both may lower blood glucose, but that's not what we care about. Rather, if one person takes metformin and another takes insulin, their results will be totally different

 

[mr.cooper69]

THANK YOU!!! You are the first person I have seen on the boards to have mentioned this right off. I am diabetic and HAVE to take the stuff. Otherwise I would never mess with it. If your not diabetic then side really outway the gains (JMO here). BTW lactic acidosis has a bout a 50% mortality rate to it, rare or not you need to consider it.

Also here are some other side, limp dick (not directly cause by but can agervate problems.) liver and kidney damage, and posibly kidney stones(there is debate on this). If you you don't need this guys I would not take it. JMO

Relevance! This isn't a side effect that X amount of people randomly get. You need to be near kidney failure/dialysis to get lactic acidosis