WHAT IS NORMAL??!

[ugasoccer22]

say I am running a p-plex cycle (10/20/20/40/40) for my first cycle ever (stacked with fish oil, multivitamin, and cycle assist). If i got "tingly" nips, or gyno, should I stop using P-Plex and start my Nolva cycle (40/20/20/10/10)? If I start experiencing sides should I just suck it up and deal with them and wait until my cycle is over to start PCT? SO basically, my question is,

....When do you know when to stop using a PH/AS? And what is the order of operations on how to deal with sides?

 

[ezza]

Well whats normal these days anyway.... everyone is different and will react differently. That said it could be a number of factors.
From what i've gathered p-plex does not actually aromatise (convert to estrogen) but can act directly on estrogen/progesterone receptors.
It could be increased prolactin.
Or it could be totally in your head... either way i wouldn't completely ignore it...
Since it doesn't aramotise using an AI would pretty much be redundant so using a serm would be the best bet since it actually blocks estrogen at the receptor as opposed to trying to stop it from converting which is what an AI would do.
For prolactin i'd use vit b6 or p5p + l-dopa.
And well if its in your head.. taking some sort of action would probably ease your mind. I'd continue to run the cyle. leave your nipples alone... but check every now and then for a hard lump forming... if it aint hard and painlfull its not gyno.

 

[ugasoccer22]

roger that. I should continue the cycle as directed above, but just dose in some nolva along with it? I havent started yet, but I want to have a contingency plan if things go south.

 

[SeanyK]

adhere to the advice given to you above. but ... nolva and serms in general on-cycle will limit gains, as tamoxifen will compete with the phera for the AR

 

[lennoxchi]

keep in mind here folks that just because an ph/ps/aas does not aromatise does not mean that you will not experience estro related side effects such as gyno. you have both test and estro in a natural state, now introduce something which (for thew most part) elimates natural test, what is left? estro.

if you start to experience estro sides the best thing to use is an AI. why? because treating the reason why you're having the side effects is better than trying to make it. a well respected member on this board enlightened me of this concept a little while back. nolva does nothing but block estro from binding to the recptor whereas an AI will kill estro.

 

[UnrealMachine]

why are you dosing 10/20/20/40/40 that really makes no sense. Start at 20 and then work up to 30, 30 is usually pretty good for most people, adjust from there.

I just don't see why you would start really low, SKIP the sweet spot and go straight into a high dose... that's weird man

 

[Liftingstud]

keep in mind here folks that just because an ph/ps/aas does not aromatise does not mean that you will not experience estro related side effects such as gyno. you have both test and estro in a natural state, now introduce something which (for thew most part) elimates natural test, what is left? estro.

if you start to experience estro sides the best thing to use is an AI. why? because treating the reason why you're having the side effects is better than trying to make it. a well respected member on this board enlightened me of this concept a little while back. nolva does nothing but block estro from binding to the recptor whereas an AI will kill estro.

an AI will do nothing for estrogen that us already formed. It just blocks the converson.... Hence the term aromatase inhibitor.

You can get estro sides with a compound that dosent aromatize due to it binding to the AR which displaces test and estrogen to freely circulate.

When u run something that can aromatize like test often people run a low dose AI to prevent that converson.

If it was me and started to have issues on cycle with pplex I would get on some tamox or if near end of cycle start PCT.

Also unreal is right your dosing is off. I know it's ur first run but start at 20 and work up something like 20/20/30/30/30 would be a good first run. You should easily blow up with those clean receptors, enjoy.

 

[neverstop]

if its not painful then its not gyno in my experience, unreal is right about dosing too

 

[ezza]

Yeah if you get mild sides like slightly itchy nipples ect and your really concerned about it i'd keep going with the cycle and dose 10mg nolva along with 200mg vit b6.... If that doesn't help then I personally would end the cycle early and start pct. It's easier to prevent gyno than treat it once it's formed.