Guest viewing limit reached
  • You have reached the maximum number of guest views allowed
  • Please register below to remove this limitation

Which PH for lean mass while dieting?

You posted a steroid related post in the wrong section.

This should be under "Anabolics", not supplement.

X
 
I'd say no for Pheraplex due to its ability to enlarge the heart:
Invalid Link Removed

To reduce any side effects, it would be a good idea to use a pulse method, and for what you are looking for epistane or one of its clones will suffice.
MK9
 
MK9 said:
I'd say no for Pheraplex due to its ability to enlarge the heart:
Invalid Link Removed

To reduce any side effects, it would be a good idea to use a pulse method, and for what you are looking for epistane or one of its clones will suffice.
MK9
Click to expand...

we all know about that,

how permanent is it and at what dose in humans?

it works great for cutting
 
Hdrol/Halovar is hand's down best for dieting and lean mass (at least it was for me). Technically any steroid can be used for this purpose though.....

Oh and Gyno is a risk with any steroid really.
 
MK9 said:
I never knew about it enlarging the heart. Diel says the doses were low, no specifics on mg\kg.
MK9
Click to expand...

Doses were 'low' is irrelevant without a mg/kg ratio given. Obviously, the subject of this study was done on rat which often times does not fully interconnect the same results as with humans (dose could vary greatly from rats to humans). Since our government does not allow the direct testing of anabolic steroidal subjects in American, we have to speculate a similarity among rodents to humans which can only direct us into a 'potential' category. Rodent testing in chemicals such as clenbuterol exert differing effects among rats than human. Similarly, de novo lipogensis research among horses, cows, etc do not fully interconnect with humans either. That being said, research studies not test directly on humans may not have the same effects on other animals.

P.S: Any anabolic steroid has the 'potential' of causing left ventricular hypertrophy.
 
russy_russ said:
Doses were 'low' is irrelevant without a mg/kg ratio given. Obviously, the subject of this study was done on rat which often times does not fully interconnect the same results as with humans (dose could vary greatly from rats to humans). Since our government does not allow the direct testing of anabolic steroidal subjects in American, we have to speculate a similarity among rodents to humans which can only direct us into a 'potential' category. Rodent testing in chemicals such as clenbuterol exert differing effects among rats than human. Similarly, de novo lipogensis research among horses, cows, etc do not fully interconnect with humans either. That being said, research studies not test directly on humans may not have the same effects on other animals.

P.S: Any anabolic steroid has the 'potential' of causing left ventricular hypertrophy.
Click to expand...

I wouldnt discount the heart enlarging properties just because a mg\kg dose was not explicitly outlined. Is there information available on the effects these other compounds have on causing the heart to grow? I just found one that goes into detail and it appears that it happens when used in conjunction with GH especially among those who abuse AAS


The OP should at least have the information available to make a purchasing decision. If I were researching a compound and one of the significant changes noted by scientists was an increase in the size of the heart then thats a shows stopper right there regardless of the dose given to the rats.

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed


Yeah the heart is a muscle, just like the bicep, but I dont see any studies reporting creating and\or bcaa's causing the heart to grow.
I dont have any allegiance to anything whatsoever, and I enjoy doing reading on these items. Really is an eye opener, sort of like the damage Epi and other ph's and steroids can do on collagen.
MK9
 
High dosed Hdrol
 
MK9 said:
I wouldnt discount the heart enlarging properties just because a mg\kg dose was not explicitly outlined. Is there information available on the effects these other compounds have on causing the heart to grow? I just found one that goes into detail and it appears that it happens when used in conjunction with GH especially among those who abuse AAS


The OP should at least have the information available to make a purchasing decision. If I were researching a compound and one of the significant changes noted by scientists was an increase in the size of the heart then thats a shows stopper right there regardless of the dose given to the rats.

Invalid Link Removed

Left ventricular size and function in elite bodybuilders using anabolic steroids


Yeah the heart is a muscle, just like the bicep, but I dont see any studies reporting creating and\or bcaa's causing the heart to grow.
I dont have any allegiance to anything whatsoever, and I enjoy doing reading on these items. Really is an eye opener, sort of like the damage Epi and other ph's and steroids can do on collagen.
MK9
Click to expand...


Agreed about not overlooking that study at all.

But: The heart is not exactly like a bicep, cardiac muscle vs skeletal muscle. Androgens have effect on left ventricular hypertrophy (as does weigthlifting itself) and can not be compared to BCAA (mainly only metabolized in skeletal muscle) or Creatine.....
 
Grambo said:
Agreed about not overlooking that study at all.

But: The heart is not exactly like a bicep, cardiac muscle vs skeletal muscle. Androgens have effect on left ventricular hypertrophy (as does weigthlifting itself) and can not be compared to BCAA (mainly only metabolized in skeletal muscle) or Creatine.....
Click to expand...

Thats interesting, so is it safe to say that weight and\or strength training causes hypertrophy in the heart, and with only using basic staple supps like whey & creatine, does this cause one's endurance\strength capacity to go up, but in a positive way?
MK9
 
MK9 said:
Thats interesting, so is it safe to say that weight and\or strength training causes hypertrophy in the heart, and with only using basic staple supps like whey & creatine, does this cause one's endurance\strength capacity to go up, but in a positive way?
MK9
Click to expand...

Yes it is safe to say that. Yes it does so in a positive way.....there are concerns if the hypertrophy becomes too much (long term steroid abuse).
 
The enlargement is Temporary on pplex.

My Jaw would get pumps on pplex. After chewing gum etc. not painful but just annoying.

After a Pplex cycle my Jaw looks like American Dad or some sh*t. LoL

But seriously, im fairly certain that most gear will cause cardia hypertrophy to an extent.

If you run everyday, your heart will enlarge as well.
 
What makes you think the enlargement from DMT is temporary? (yes all androgens increase left ventricle hypertrophy, what is interesting was that rat model study showed it increased it over control group using test prop, if I'm recalling correctly )
 
The myocardium is a cardiac muscle. And, biochemically it differes from skeletal muscle a bit in its substrate use for ATP synthesis and how it depolarizes. However, cardiac muscle is still very capable, and does, grow (common among steroid abusers).
 
MK9 said:
I wouldnt discount the heart enlarging properties just because a mg\kg dose was not explicitly outlined. Is there information available on the effects these other compounds have on causing the heart to grow? I just found one that goes into detail and it appears that it happens when used in conjunction with GH especially among those who abuse AAS


The OP should at least have the information available to make a purchasing decision. If I were researching a compound and one of the significant changes noted by scientists was an increase in the size of the heart then thats a shows stopper right there regardless of the dose given to the rats.

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed


Yeah the heart is a muscle, just like the bicep, but I dont see any studies reporting creating and\or bcaa's causing the heart to grow.
I dont have any allegiance to anything whatsoever, and I enjoy doing reading on these items. Really is an eye opener, sort of like the damage Epi and other ph's and steroids can do on collagen.
MK9
Click to expand...

I never discredited the fact it COULD potentially cause left ventricular hypertrophy. I said the dosing could vary in which said side effect would occur. If you had read my post script you would have known that I said any anabolic steroid has the potential to cause left ventricular hypertrophy. This is fairly common knowledge in the exercise physiology field. I'll put it this way, anabolic steroids are not very specific in their ability to generate and increase anabolism. This means they can elict their effects on more than just skeletal muscle tissue. They are an accelerator for many genetic traits (male pattern baldness, cardiovascular disease, liver disease, cancer, etc). This does not necessarily mean if you take anabolic steroids you will develop those, it simply means that if you have a genetic predisposition for them and abuse steroids you become at a greater risk of developing them EARLIER.
 
Endurance athletes and athletes in general can also have an increase in the size of the heart just from training alone

Either way

M14e. Is great for lean mass

Gyno can always become an issue

Be smart about it
 
crazyfool405 said:
Endurance athletes and athletes in general can also have an increase in the size of the heart just from training alone
Click to expand...

Right on. I forgot to mention that. Endurance training usually causes an enlargement of the ventricular chamber size.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top