higher doses of epi and hdrol

texastweeter

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Ok, I am on my last two weeks of my most recent cycle of epi and h-drol. these last 2 weeks are at 125mg h-drol/day 50mg epi/day. I have started to experience some sides, which are pretty rare for me. Libido has dropped quite a bit, which on ANY compound is extreemely rare for me, as well as the fact that it is hard as hell to actually get off during sex now. I have just started to get back pumps, but stifled them with quinine, taurene, and potassium. My emotional state seems off to say the least. I have never experienced the so called rage on ANY gear, but I have always had a very very hot temper anyway; but it just seems that I get overlyt annoyed over trivial things now. this could also just be a byproduct of stress from work, but I have to watch myself all day now. My appetite has exploded exponentally. I keep a very clean diet year round, and it is never really a chore for me, but Have been getting horrable craveings as of late.last, I have been having some horrable stomach pains for the past week. they seem to come and go. nausia, lower abdominal distress, but no vomiting or diahrrea. Has anyone experienced this before? Ideas, or suggestions? Oh and Im sure some smart @$$ is going to say im pregnant lolz!
 
mooch2321

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hmm....what brand epi? your not the first lately to be complaining of stomach pains....
 
Jeff5886

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Not to hijack, but how have the gains been otherwise with that high of dose on the hdrol and epi?
 
EasyEJL

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I was pondering a short term (2 week) cycle of epi or havoc at 50-60 a day
 
jbryand101b

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175mg of methylated steroids, and you are wondering why you're haivng stomach pains?

I get crap for loving to stack superdrol/phera/hd. but I dont go over 90mg (10sd/10pp/25hd*2)each day. so im not gonna give you anything for this.

50mg of hd works good for me, but i respond well.

you said the gains are great, congrats. more gains, more sides. thats the way it is dude.

good luck with the rest of the cycle.
 

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Phenominal = What type of gains?
Just trying to determine if the gains outweigh the possible sides.
 
monsterbox

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well Ill tell you, when I used havoc only the first time, I noticed some abdominal pain. It was an aching at the very bottom of the my stomach, kind of felt like I got kicked in the nuts.

I also had a hell of a short fuse on havoc, every time. Most of the day I'd feel awesome, but in the evening I'd get extremely easily set off, and when set off I just felt extremely mad at everything. This stuff didn't start happening until week 3 so I figure its not the havoc, but its the lack of natural T.

I wonder what kind of sides people would report, if any, if run in conjuction with Test-E or something.
 
crazyfool405

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EPITHIO = GODLIKE at 70-100mg

yes 70-100mg ull get lean and have a huge appetite and your strength will be unreal
 
monsterbox

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yes

i did it and LOVED every second of it.
holy F*CK!!! thats 5 times as strong as the recommended! How did you not get gyno? Seems like that much epi would have to make something hit the fan? I really want to try this now...however i had joint pain at 40mg and was afraid to move up...does the dryness get worse at 70-100?
 
Jeff5886

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I've run 50 with no sides and thinkin about bumping to 70 my last two weeks of a 6 week cycle
 
Jeff5886

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just like the op, the higher i go, the better the gains....
 

n87

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yes

i did it and LOVED every second of it.
Damn, with dose that high, you better be able to keep the gains. IMO, it's better to do the injectables, then screwing your liver up like that. But to each his own.
 
crazyfool405

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How is 100mg of epi any different on liver opposed to 100mg hdrol or 150 anadrol or any of the others with proper spport?
 
texastweeter

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stomach pains are gone now, may have jsut been a stomach bug. I am gtg. thx guys
 
monsterbox

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How is 100mg of epi any different on liver opposed to 100mg hdrol or 150 anadrol or any of the others with proper spport?
theres no such thing as proper support. Its all bs. I took milk thistle liv52 tons of lemon juice and water and my alt/ast were over 500 on superdrol.

However, people report values in the 100's on epi...so 70+mg probably is similar to 10-20mg SD.
 
crazyfool405

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theres no such thing as proper support. Its all bs. I took milk thistle liv52 tons of lemon juice and water and my alt/ast were over 500 on superdrol.

However, people report values in the 100's on epi...so 70+mg probably is similar to 10-20mg SD.
my enzymes never hit the 400s on pplex mdrol bridge

theres gotta be discrepancys in your bloodwork,

high lactate in your blood or tons of alanine being converted to glucose

i remmeber that thread broski crazyness went down in there lol
 
Jeff5886

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so are we concluding that 70mg of epi is somewhat safe?
 
crazyfool405

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No that's not what were concludimgbecause there's no evidence to support that x amount of one methyl affects the liver as much as the next no comparative studies or bloodwork has been done. I do know my highest enzymes were on mdrol pplex and least was on epi and hdrol
 
monsterbox

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my enzymes never hit the 400s on pplex mdrol bridge

theres gotta be discrepancys in your bloodwork,

high lactate in your blood or tons of alanine being converted to glucose

i remmeber that thread broski crazyness went down in there lol
lactate...anything related to lactose?

I dont know man, my liver alt was 600 and my ast was 500's...1 week later, off the compound my values dropped to the 100's. By the end of PCT they were completely normal. Most people only test after pct, not on cycle. Maybe I truly got bunk m-drol or something cuz it made me nuts....with none of the effects advertised.

Yea that thread was nuts! What a drama filled pos.
 

n87

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How is 100mg of epi any different on liver opposed to 100mg hdrol or 150 anadrol or any of the others with proper spport?
Just like MONSTERBOX said there is no such thing as proper support.
We are trying to offset damage done by a strong chemical compound with herbal supplement. Milk thistle, yeah right... To get any kind of effect from it, one needs to take it consistantly for a long time. There is stuff for HPTA, and lipids etc, that actually works. But there is really nothing strong for liver. Once damage is done it's done. All of these liver support supplements, are just to make you feel that after you take them, they somehow repair it. JMO.
 
monsterbox

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Just like MONSTERBOX said there is no such thing as proper support.
We are trying to offset damage done by a strong chemical compound with herbal supplement. Milk thistle, yeah right... To get any kind of effect from it, one needs to take it consistantly for a long time. There is stuff for HPTA, and lipids etc, that actually works. But there is really nothing strong for liver. Once damage is done it's done. All of these liver support supplements, are just to make you feel that after you take them, they somehow repair it. JMO.
its so you don't feel guilty about your liver cancer in the future lol


In all seriousness, the docs were freaking out at my high alt's were-as alot of steroid users were saying for an oral cycle thats completely normal to see ON. I'm lucky they dropped back down so quickly.

Its hard to grasp exactly what the ALT means....I believe its the enzyme found in the mitochondria of the liver cells, thats released into the blood stream when those cells die off....So, in that case, the ALT indicates how-rapidly cells are dying off, but not necessarily how much damage in total has occurred.

I didn't have any signs of jaundice, yellowing skin, itching, sick after eating fats, etc...

The docs were sayings its scary when your ALT are elevated for long period of time because of the accumulated damage. They were telling me that hepatitis patients had levels in the 10,000!
 
AMTorres

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What do you guys think of

2 weeks 90mg Tren followed by...

4 weeks Tren 120/120/120/120
Epi 40/50/70/70

Is this too insane?

My last stack was Spawn(4 weeks) with:
Tren: 90mg
Epi: 24mg (these compounds were in the spawn, i didn't stack these with spawn, lol)

and had no sides except a lil agression for short spurts throughout.
 
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AMTorres

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holy F*CK!!! thats 5 times as strong as the recommended! How did you not get gyno? Seems like that much epi would have to make something hit the fan? I really want to try this now...however i had joint pain at 40mg and was afraid to move up...does the dryness get worse at 70-100?

with 20-30g fish oil/day help with the dryness? That's what I was ingesting on my last cycle :)
 
wontstop985

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What do you guys think of

2 weeks 90mg Tren followed by...

4 weeks Tren 120/120/120/120
Epi 40/50/70/70

Is this too insane?

My last stack was Spawn(4 weeks) with:
Tren: 90mg
Epi: 24mg (these compounds were in the spawn, i didn't stack these with spawn, lol)

and had no sides except a lil agression for short spurts throughout.
Seems ok, I play on running tren/epi in a couple weeks at

tren 100/100/100/100/100/100
epi 30/ 30/ 40/ 40/ 50/ 50

Overall, I'll be doing about the same amount of gear as you.
 
AMTorres

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Sounds like we'll have some good stacks running about the same time. Are you going to log? Did you buy 2 bottles of each? What tren and epi are you running?
 
wontstop985

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Sounds like we'll have some good stacks running about the same time. Are you going to log? Did you buy 2 bottles of each? What tren and epi are you running?
I've got 2 bottles of epidrol and 2 of e-stane. One of the epidrol is open so I'll be running that. For tren I'm gonna use 60mg x-tren/day + 40mg/x-mass for a total of 100mg/day. Although I've got 2 bottles of x-mass and 3 of cel x-tren in case its better to run a one brand the whole time. Combining them shouldn't be an issue, though (I don't think).

I might be logging it if I've got enough time, but school and work can be a bitch.
 
monsterbox

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with 20-30g fish oil/day help with the dryness? That's what I was ingesting on my last cycle :)
I was doing 10g plus cissus and glucosamine. It wasn't helping much. 20-30mg might help :) thats a crap ton. I would never recommend that long term...you do realize it retards the ability of your blood to clot.

My problem was havoc seemed to increase inflammation moreso than actual dryness. My joints everywhere else were fine, no clicking or anything. Around week 2 my elbow started stabbing me when I was doing bench...then later that week it was like getting kicked in the elbow when I tried to do pushups. Its like the inflammation just kept compounding.




Hey crazyfool, did you notice any dryness when running havoc at those high dosages along with test? I think it was you who said your E2 was in the 40's...seems like the test was keeping some estrogen flowing? Maybe its not the anti-estrogenic effect, but something else that causes the hydrophobic dryness of the joints.


If I ever am prescibed TRT, you can bet Ill be trying out 70mg+ and dosing arimidex at night to ward off the rebound. The test provides a good feeling baseline right? So side effects should be non-existant? This thread has got me so pumped up! I gained 15lbs on havoc easily at 20-30mg...at 70-100, holy f*ck watch out.
 
crazyfool405

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I was doing 10g plus cissus and glucosamine. It wasn't helping much. 20-30mg might help :) thats a crap ton. I would never recommend that long term...you do realize it retards the ability of your blood to clot.

My problem was havoc seemed to increase inflammation moreso than actual dryness. My joints everywhere else were fine, no clicking or anything. Around week 2 my elbow started stabbing me when I was doing bench...then later that week it was like getting kicked in the elbow when I tried to do pushups. Its like the inflammation just kept compounding.




Hey crazyfool, did you notice any dryness when running havoc at those high dosages along with test? I think it was you who said your E2 was in the 40's...seems like the test was keeping some estrogen flowing? Maybe its not the anti-estrogenic effect, but something else that causes the hydrophobic dryness of the joints.

when i had the blood work it was at 50mg epi and 500mg test. later on like 5 months later i added in the epi at those doses with 450mg test but an AI every night, im now off the epi and tapering the test and on 80mg pplex (i know i know, but this is pretty damn impressive at this dose) i just think its the stress on the joints from quick strength gains that your body is having a hard time regulating causing inflamation in the tendons and ligaments. it may be just displacing estrogen from the bones as well causing an increase in the para thyroid hormone and calcium to drain from ther bones.
If I ever am prescibed TRT, you can bet Ill be trying out 70mg+ and dosing arimidex at night to ward off the rebound. The test provides a good feeling baseline right? So side effects should be non-existant? This thread has got me so pumped up! I gained 15lbs on havoc easily at 20-30mg...at 70-100, holy f*ck watch out.
i can tell u 60mg of pplex is similar to the effects of 70-100mg epi.

i would NEVER run these doses unless on test though youll be SOO lethargic u wont be able to get out of bed!
 

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just popping in guys to say that 10mg epi in the morning have been pretty good for strength gains, but I got the knee pain, and knee clicking has worsened, think about raising the epi but 10mg seems to be enough to at least get stronger.
 
monsterbox

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i can tell u 60mg of pplex is similar to the effects of 70-100mg epi.

i would NEVER run these doses unless on test though youll be SOO lethargic u wont be able to get out of bed!
wow, too bad I can't fully comprehend the pplex statement. I ran it at 50mg for 2 weeks with NO effects. However, I'm sure 70-100mg of epi is insane.

So as far as epi causing gyno flare up at that dosage...

was that because you were trying to rely on epi as the sole AI for your 500mg/week? So when your blood came back with e2 at 40, thats from only epi+test, no arimidex? In this case, it proves that epi doesn't aromatize and probably provides short acting anti-e effects until the short half-life drops off?
 
monsterbox

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just popping in guys to say that 10mg epi in the morning have been pretty good for strength gains, but I got the knee pain, and knee clicking has worsened, think about raising the epi but 10mg seems to be enough to at least get stronger.
I don't believe the knee pain/clicking is from the epi...its probably from pushing yourself harder. Epi really shouldn't be able to dry you out that much at only 10mg. You really need to bump it up to at least 20mg...trust me, if your noticing effects at 1pill/day, 2 is going to rock!
 
crazyfool405

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Imo it proves that it acts like a serm with no effect on e2 as being steroidal
 
AMTorres

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I was doing 10g plus cissus and glucosamine. It wasn't helping much. 20-30mg might help :) thats a crap ton. I would never recommend that long term...you do realize it retards the ability of your blood to clot.

My problem was havoc seemed to increase inflammation moreso than actual dryness. My joints everywhere else were fine, no clicking or anything. Around week 2 my elbow started stabbing me when I was doing bench...then later that week it was like getting kicked in the elbow when I tried to do pushups. Its like the inflammation just kept compounding.
I take fish oil while on cycle mostly. Haven't taken it in about 2 months. I will be taking 20-30g fish oil plus Orange Triad multis. That should hopefully keep dryness away. I didn't know it retards the ability of blood to clot. That is good to know though.

I'll be logging and hopefully running epistane to 60-70mg, so you can follow along and see how my fish oil does for me, and gains :)
 
crazyfool405

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DO NOT dose fishoil that high it'll thin your bloos and act as a COX inhibitor and hinder gains. 5g is enough.

If ur worried bout inflamation cut back on the omega 6s but keep the omega 6 GLA imn there its found in primrose oil
 

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I don't believe the knee pain/clicking is from the epi...its probably from pushing yourself harder. Epi really shouldn't be able to dry you out that much at only 10mg. You really need to bump it up to at least 20mg...trust me, if your noticing effects at 1pill/day, 2 is going to rock!
IDK man I want to take the least I need to, to get stronger that way I can be ON longer.
 
monsterbox

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IDK man I want to take the least I need to, to get stronger that way I can be ON longer.
well, I highly highly doubt you'll have sides at 20mg. I mean theres guys on here running 100mg. I really believe you should at least try it...I had gains/pumps on 10mg, as soon as I bumped up to 20mg, the scale simply started going UP!

If you meant, "on longer" as having alot more pills left over so you can take 10mg/day for 90 days....bad idea. You'll more than likely be way more shutdown than if you took 30mg/day for 30 days. The extra time is what causes extra sides on your body in my experience. Its more time without natural T that you have to endure. 20mg-30mg for the first time user, moving up the 30 the last 2 weeks is the sweet spot.

Seriously man, 10mg is known as the "side-effect test" to make sure you don't have a terrible reaction or something. The bottle even recommends 20-30mg.

Addionally, with only 1 pill/day the compound is clearing your blood alot earlier, and the anabolic effects are wearing off earlier. If you ran 2pills/day, you could space them out and have a more even, sustained anabolic zone.
 
rippedX

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Damn I'm excited to run a DS again! Can't decide between Epi, Protodrol, and Cynostane....Probably go with Epi or Proto since I am cutting/recomping and would want a more androgenic compound.

My only Epi run has been 30/30/30/30...no sides whatsoever...I effing loved it! I think this time I'd go with 30/40/40/50/50...
 
AMTorres

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Damn I'm excited to run a DS again! Can't decide between Epi, Protodrol, and Cynostane....Probably go with Epi or Proto since I am cutting/recomping and would want a more androgenic compound.

My only Epi run has been 30/30/30/30...no sides whatsoever...I effing loved it! I think this time I'd go with 30/40/40/50/50...
Are you going to stack it with another DS or run it solo?
 
texastweeter

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kk bout to do a write with pics up on my cycle since I started pct today, keep your eyes peeled.
 

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