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higher doses of epi and hdrol

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    higher doses of epi and hdrol


    Ok, I am on my last two weeks of my most recent cycle of epi and h-drol. these last 2 weeks are at 125mg h-drol/day 50mg epi/day. I have started to experience some sides, which are pretty rare for me. Libido has dropped quite a bit, which on ANY compound is extreemely rare for me, as well as the fact that it is hard as hell to actually get off during sex now. I have just started to get back pumps, but stifled them with quinine, taurene, and potassium. My emotional state seems off to say the least. I have never experienced the so called rage on ANY gear, but I have always had a very very hot temper anyway; but it just seems that I get overlyt annoyed over trivial things now. this could also just be a byproduct of stress from work, but I have to watch myself all day now. My appetite has exploded exponentally. I keep a very clean diet year round, and it is never really a chore for me, but Have been getting horrable craveings as of late.last, I have been having some horrable stomach pains for the past week. they seem to come and go. nausia, lower abdominal distress, but no vomiting or diahrrea. Has anyone experienced this before? Ideas, or suggestions? Oh and Im sure some smart @$$ is going to say im pregnant lolz!

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    hmm....what brand epi? your not the first lately to be complaining of stomach pains....
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    Not to hijack, but how have the gains been otherwise with that high of dose on the hdrol and epi?
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    Only one word... Phenominal
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    Quote Originally Posted by texastweeter View Post
    Only one word... Phenominal
    WOW! I am very intrested in your cycle!

    How have you been dosing the whole cycle?
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    I was pondering a short term (2 week) cycle of epi or havoc at 50-60 a day
    This space for rent

    Phenadrol Log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...-hell-did.html - AMAZING fat loss results so far
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    175mg of methylated steroids, and you are wondering why you're haivng stomach pains?

    I get crap for loving to stack superdrol/phera/hd. but I dont go over 90mg (10sd/10pp/25hd*2)each day. so im not gonna give you anything for this.

    50mg of hd works good for me, but i respond well.

    you said the gains are great, congrats. more gains, more sides. thats the way it is dude.

    good luck with the rest of the cycle.
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    Phenominal = What type of gains?
    Just trying to determine if the gains outweigh the possible sides.
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    well Ill tell you, when I used havoc only the first time, I noticed some abdominal pain. It was an aching at the very bottom of the my stomach, kind of felt like I got kicked in the nuts.

    I also had a hell of a short fuse on havoc, every time. Most of the day I'd feel awesome, but in the evening I'd get extremely easily set off, and when set off I just felt extremely mad at everything. This stuff didn't start happening until week 3 so I figure its not the havoc, but its the lack of natural T.

    I wonder what kind of sides people would report, if any, if run in conjuction with Test-E or something.
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    EPITHIO = GODLIKE at 70-100mg

    yes 70-100mg ull get lean and have a huge appetite and your strength will be unreal
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    Are you saying Epistane at 70-100mg?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff5886 View Post
    Are you saying Epistane at 70-100mg?
    yes

    i did it and LOVED every second of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    yes

    i did it and LOVED every second of it.
    WOW! Anyone else ever run this high before?
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    yes

    i did it and LOVED every second of it.
    holy F*CK!!! thats 5 times as strong as the recommended! How did you not get gyno? Seems like that much epi would have to make something hit the fan? I really want to try this now...however i had joint pain at 40mg and was afraid to move up...does the dryness get worse at 70-100?
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    I've run 50 with no sides and thinkin about bumping to 70 my last two weeks of a 6 week cycle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff5886 View Post
    I've run 50 with no sides and thinkin about bumping to 70 my last two weeks of a 6 week cycle
    do you notice more weight packing at 50+?
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    just like the op, the higher i go, the better the gains....
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    yes

    i did it and LOVED every second of it.
    Damn, with dose that high, you better be able to keep the gains. IMO, it's better to do the injectables, then screwing your liver up like that. But to each his own.
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    How is 100mg of epi any different on liver opposed to 100mg hdrol or 150 anadrol or any of the others with proper spport?
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    stomach pains are gone now, may have jsut been a stomach bug. I am gtg. thx guys
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    How is 100mg of epi any different on liver opposed to 100mg hdrol or 150 anadrol or any of the others with proper spport?
    theres no such thing as proper support. Its all bs. I took milk thistle liv52 tons of lemon juice and water and my alt/ast were over 500 on superdrol.

    However, people report values in the 100's on epi...so 70+mg probably is similar to 10-20mg SD.
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    theres no such thing as proper support. Its all bs. I took milk thistle liv52 tons of lemon juice and water and my alt/ast were over 500 on superdrol.

    However, people report values in the 100's on epi...so 70+mg probably is similar to 10-20mg SD.
    my enzymes never hit the 400s on pplex mdrol bridge

    theres gotta be discrepancys in your bloodwork,

    high lactate in your blood or tons of alanine being converted to glucose

    i remmeber that thread broski crazyness went down in there lol
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    so are we concluding that 70mg of epi is somewhat safe?
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    No that's not what were concludimgbecause there's no evidence to support that x amount of one methyl affects the liver as much as the next no comparative studies or bloodwork has been done. I do know my highest enzymes were on mdrol pplex and least was on epi and hdrol
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    my enzymes never hit the 400s on pplex mdrol bridge

    theres gotta be discrepancys in your bloodwork,

    high lactate in your blood or tons of alanine being converted to glucose

    i remmeber that thread broski crazyness went down in there lol
    lactate...anything related to lactose?

    I dont know man, my liver alt was 600 and my ast was 500's...1 week later, off the compound my values dropped to the 100's. By the end of PCT they were completely normal. Most people only test after pct, not on cycle. Maybe I truly got bunk m-drol or something cuz it made me nuts....with none of the effects advertised.

    Yea that thread was nuts! What a drama filled pos.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    How is 100mg of epi any different on liver opposed to 100mg hdrol or 150 anadrol or any of the others with proper spport?
    Just like MONSTERBOX said there is no such thing as proper support.
    We are trying to offset damage done by a strong chemical compound with herbal supplement. Milk thistle, yeah right... To get any kind of effect from it, one needs to take it consistantly for a long time. There is stuff for HPTA, and lipids etc, that actually works. But there is really nothing strong for liver. Once damage is done it's done. All of these liver support supplements, are just to make you feel that after you take them, they somehow repair it. JMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by n87 View Post
    Just like MONSTERBOX said there is no such thing as proper support.
    We are trying to offset damage done by a strong chemical compound with herbal supplement. Milk thistle, yeah right... To get any kind of effect from it, one needs to take it consistantly for a long time. There is stuff for HPTA, and lipids etc, that actually works. But there is really nothing strong for liver. Once damage is done it's done. All of these liver support supplements, are just to make you feel that after you take them, they somehow repair it. JMO.
    its so you don't feel guilty about your liver cancer in the future lol


    In all seriousness, the docs were freaking out at my high alt's were-as alot of steroid users were saying for an oral cycle thats completely normal to see ON. I'm lucky they dropped back down so quickly.

    Its hard to grasp exactly what the ALT means....I believe its the enzyme found in the mitochondria of the liver cells, thats released into the blood stream when those cells die off....So, in that case, the ALT indicates how-rapidly cells are dying off, but not necessarily how much damage in total has occurred.

    I didn't have any signs of jaundice, yellowing skin, itching, sick after eating fats, etc...

    The docs were sayings its scary when your ALT are elevated for long period of time because of the accumulated damage. They were telling me that hepatitis patients had levels in the 10,000!
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    What do you guys think of

    2 weeks 90mg Tren followed by...

    4 weeks Tren 120/120/120/120
    Epi 40/50/70/70

    Is this too insane?

    My last stack was Spawn(4 weeks) with:
    Tren: 90mg
    Epi: 24mg (these compounds were in the spawn, i didn't stack these with spawn, lol)

    and had no sides except a lil agression for short spurts throughout.
    Last edited by AMTorres; 09-11-2009 at 01:11 AM. Reason: clarification
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    holy F*CK!!! thats 5 times as strong as the recommended! How did you not get gyno? Seems like that much epi would have to make something hit the fan? I really want to try this now...however i had joint pain at 40mg and was afraid to move up...does the dryness get worse at 70-100?

    with 20-30g fish oil/day help with the dryness? That's what I was ingesting on my last cycle
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMTorres View Post
    What do you guys think of

    2 weeks 90mg Tren followed by...

    4 weeks Tren 120/120/120/120
    Epi 40/50/70/70

    Is this too insane?

    My last stack was Spawn(4 weeks) with:
    Tren: 90mg
    Epi: 24mg (these compounds were in the spawn, i didn't stack these with spawn, lol)

    and had no sides except a lil agression for short spurts throughout.
    Seems ok, I play on running tren/epi in a couple weeks at

    tren 100/100/100/100/100/100
    epi 30/ 30/ 40/ 40/ 50/ 50

    Overall, I'll be doing about the same amount of gear as you.
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    What are your stats??
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    6" 207 @ 9% bf
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    Sounds like we'll have some good stacks running about the same time. Are you going to log? Did you buy 2 bottles of each? What tren and epi are you running?
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    AMtores. If u have questions or need insite omn that stack whick I have done please email me crazYfool@anabolicinnovations. com
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    AMtores. If u have questions or need insite omn that stack whick I have done please email me crazYfool@anabolicinnovations. com
    Thanks bro, I appreciate the offer, I will probably contact you within the next day or two.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMTorres View Post
    Sounds like we'll have some good stacks running about the same time. Are you going to log? Did you buy 2 bottles of each? What tren and epi are you running?
    I've got 2 bottles of epidrol and 2 of e-stane. One of the epidrol is open so I'll be running that. For tren I'm gonna use 60mg x-tren/day + 40mg/x-mass for a total of 100mg/day. Although I've got 2 bottles of x-mass and 3 of cel x-tren in case its better to run a one brand the whole time. Combining them shouldn't be an issue, though (I don't think).

    I might be logging it if I've got enough time, but school and work can be a bitch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMTorres View Post
    with 20-30g fish oil/day help with the dryness? That's what I was ingesting on my last cycle
    I was doing 10g plus cissus and glucosamine. It wasn't helping much. 20-30mg might help thats a crap ton. I would never recommend that long term...you do realize it retards the ability of your blood to clot.

    My problem was havoc seemed to increase inflammation moreso than actual dryness. My joints everywhere else were fine, no clicking or anything. Around week 2 my elbow started stabbing me when I was doing bench...then later that week it was like getting kicked in the elbow when I tried to do pushups. Its like the inflammation just kept compounding.




    Hey crazyfool, did you notice any dryness when running havoc at those high dosages along with test? I think it was you who said your E2 was in the 40's...seems like the test was keeping some estrogen flowing? Maybe its not the anti-estrogenic effect, but something else that causes the hydrophobic dryness of the joints.


    If I ever am prescibed TRT, you can bet Ill be trying out 70mg+ and dosing arimidex at night to ward off the rebound. The test provides a good feeling baseline right? So side effects should be non-existant? This thread has got me so pumped up! I gained 15lbs on havoc easily at 20-30mg...at 70-100, holy f*ck watch out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    I was doing 10g plus cissus and glucosamine. It wasn't helping much. 20-30mg might help thats a crap ton. I would never recommend that long term...you do realize it retards the ability of your blood to clot.

    My problem was havoc seemed to increase inflammation moreso than actual dryness. My joints everywhere else were fine, no clicking or anything. Around week 2 my elbow started stabbing me when I was doing bench...then later that week it was like getting kicked in the elbow when I tried to do pushups. Its like the inflammation just kept compounding.




    Hey crazyfool, did you notice any dryness when running havoc at those high dosages along with test? I think it was you who said your E2 was in the 40's...seems like the test was keeping some estrogen flowing? Maybe its not the anti-estrogenic effect, but something else that causes the hydrophobic dryness of the joints.

    when i had the blood work it was at 50mg epi and 500mg test. later on like 5 months later i added in the epi at those doses with 450mg test but an AI every night, im now off the epi and tapering the test and on 80mg pplex (i know i know, but this is pretty damn impressive at this dose) i just think its the stress on the joints from quick strength gains that your body is having a hard time regulating causing inflamation in the tendons and ligaments. it may be just displacing estrogen from the bones as well causing an increase in the para thyroid hormone and calcium to drain from ther bones.
    If I ever am prescibed TRT, you can bet Ill be trying out 70mg+ and dosing arimidex at night to ward off the rebound. The test provides a good feeling baseline right? So side effects should be non-existant? This thread has got me so pumped up! I gained 15lbs on havoc easily at 20-30mg...at 70-100, holy f*ck watch out.
    i can tell u 60mg of pplex is similar to the effects of 70-100mg epi.

    i would NEVER run these doses unless on test though youll be SOO lethargic u wont be able to get out of bed!
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    just popping in guys to say that 10mg epi in the morning have been pretty good for strength gains, but I got the knee pain, and knee clicking has worsened, think about raising the epi but 10mg seems to be enough to at least get stronger.
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