PH/DS with Olive Oil

[n8te]

I've read two threads (Unreal Machine's and Zecca's I believe) here lately where Mdrol and another PH(the name escapes me at the moment) have been taken in the morning by opening the caps and mixing it in a shot of olive oil. Both threads said they thought this made a difference.

My question is do you think it would be beneficial to take all my caps with olive oil or just in the morning? I'm not on anything at the moment but will be running Mdrol and Epi in a pulse in a month or so.

 

[UnrealMachine]

In theory it should speed up the absorption of the compound, so it is beneficial if you are pulsing and trying to spike androgen levels right before a workout. I started doing this because I lift first thing in the morning and don't have 1 hour to wait around for the compound to kick in, so i take the capsules out of the equation and just do the powder with olive oil about 30 min preworkout.

Give it a try

Pulsing Epi AND Mdrol... huh ok.

 

[TravisG]

This works insane for a pump in the gym. be aware tho. ph+olive oil/coming up in the gym=NASTY ****x2!

just wait till this concoction comes up half way through a set of bent over rows and you have to swallow this little **** coctail back down MHMM! so good! lol

 

[the GUNSHOW]

I do it and love it it works big time and FYI if your doing a puls dont spread it out do it right before and right after workout

 

[texastweeter]

the only time i gag is on frontsquats when I get around 315-350lbs

 

[n8te]

thx guys.

 

[Mass_69]

The oil won't really do anything for absorption of the 17a-methyl compounds, that's what the 17a-methyl is for, but it will help the absorption of the non-methyls, as steroids are fat-soluble and lipophilic.

There's another thread on here about olive oil that states it increases the activity of 3b-HSD & 17b-HSD. This could possibly increase the conversions of the "prohormones" (the diones & diols) into the 3-one "parents" (h-drol -> t-bol, M1,4ADD -> d-bol, 19-nor-estra-4,9 -> dienolone, etc.).

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-articles/134604-olive-oil-converts.html

 

[UnrealMachine]

Methylation makes the compound survive its run through the liver. I am talking about absorption in the stomach.

 

[Mass_69]

Methylation makes the compound survive its run through the liver. I am talking about absorption in the stomach.

Well, fats/lipid soluble nutrients are actually absorbed in the small intestines when they meet with liver bile and pancreatic enzymes, but that's not the important thing here.

Absorption (in the small intestines) isn't really the problem with bioavailability. It's what happens after. The fats/oil will help some of the non-17aa hormone be absorbed via the lymphatic system, in which it can by-pass the first-pass of the liver (of course a 17b-ester would help this much more). The 17a alkylation can get the methyl compounds past the liver, and is thought to give it near-100% bioavailability. Although I suppose in theory, adding fats to 17aa hormones may increase their lymphatic absorption, maybe sparing the liver of some stress. The only study I have seen regarding bioavailability when adding food to a methyl was done with MENT (7a-methyl-nortestosterone), which is not 17aa. The addition of food did increase the blood levels significantly. Other experts think it's a bad idea to add food to 17aa compounds:

Maximum bioavailability with c-17aa orals is noted when taken on an empty stomach, not with food. Given their mildly lipid soluble nature, some of the steroid may wind up getting excreted with undigested dietary fat if taken with food.

 

[nosnmiveins]

Well, fats/lipid soluble nutrients are actually absorbed in the small intestines when they meet with liver bile and pancreatic enzymes, but that's not the important thing here.

Absorption (in the small intestines) isn't really the problem with bioavailability. It's what happens after. The fats/oil will help some of the non-17aa hormone be absorbed via the lymphatic system, in which it can by-pass the first-pass of the liver (of course a 17b-ester would help this much more). The 17a alkylation can get the methyl compounds past the liver, and is thought to give it near-100% bioavailability. Although I suppose in theory, adding fats to 17aa hormones may increase their lymphatic absorption, maybe sparing the liver of some stress. The only study I have seen regarding bioavailability when adding food to a methyl was done with MENT (7a-methyl-nortestosterone), which is not 17aa. The addition of food did increase the blood levels significantly. Other experts think it's a bad idea to add food to 17aa compounds:

great info!....tried the EVOO and powder thing the other day....F UCKING GROSS!!

 

[Mass_69]

Guess it depends on the powder, cause I could drink EVOO straight from the bottle! :food:

 

[nosnmiveins]

Guess it depends on the powder, cause I could drink EVOO straight from the bottle! :food:

wasnt the powder, its tasteless. the consistancy of the oil made me want to gag lol

 

[n8te]

Well, fats/lipid soluble nutrients are actually absorbed in the small intestines when they meet with liver bile and pancreatic enzymes, but that's not the important thing here.

Absorption (in the small intestines) isn't really the problem with bioavailability. It's what happens after. The fats/oil will help some of the non-17aa hormone be absorbed via the lymphatic system, in which it can by-pass the first-pass of the liver (of course a 17b-ester would help this much more). The 17a alkylation can get the methyl compounds past the liver, and is thought to give it near-100% bioavailability. Although I suppose in theory, adding fats to 17aa hormones may increase their lymphatic absorption, maybe sparing the liver of some stress. The only study I have seen regarding bioavailability when adding food to a methyl was done with MENT (7a-methyl-nortestosterone), which is not 17aa. The addition of food did increase the blood levels significantly. Other experts think it's a bad idea to add food to 17aa compounds:

Interesting. Thanks for the info

I'm looking forward to trying mdrol and EVOO on my next cycle though. just to see if it makes a difference.

 

[texastweeter]

not all evoo are the same. all it has to be to be considerded ev is be less than 1% acid, really good evoo are sub .5% and are completely diffrent in nature and taste to the edumakated palet.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Well, fats/lipid soluble nutrients are actually absorbed in the small intestines when they meet with liver bile and pancreatic enzymes, but that's not the important thing here.

Absorption (in the small intestines) isn't really the problem with bioavailability. It's what happens after. The fats/oil will help some of the non-17aa hormone be absorbed via the lymphatic system, in which it can by-pass the first-pass of the liver (of course a 17b-ester would help this much more). The 17a alkylation can get the methyl compounds past the liver, and is thought to give it near-100% bioavailability. Although I suppose in theory, adding fats to 17aa hormones may increase their lymphatic absorption, maybe sparing the liver of some stress. The only study I have seen regarding bioavailability when adding food to a methyl was done with MENT (7a-methyl-nortestosterone), which is not 17aa. The addition of food did increase the blood levels significantly. Other experts think it's a bad idea to add food to 17aa compounds:

Good stuff man. Yeah I can see in this light that the fats won't contribute a great deal to the absorption. However it still has got to be much faster than gulping capsules pre-workout right because then your stomach acids dissolve the caps before the powders even get out. So in devising this method i thought that i need get the powder out of the capsule and then maximize the surface area by mixing it into a liquid and a fatty liquid (oil) made the most sense.

I haven't had any problems with my concoction coming back up but i noticed it doesn't sit well in an empty stomach. To me it tastes fine I am used to olive oil shots.

 

[MK9]

What about using grapefruit juice after ingesting your ds\ph? Doesnt it cause the supp to be active for a longer period of time?
MK9

 

[n8te]

^^ this may sound stupid but why would grapefruit juice cause it to be active longer?

 

[MK9]

^^ this may sound stupid but why would grapefruit juice cause it to be active longer?

Here is the link:
Grapefruit juice: potential drug interactions

Here is a brief summary I copied from the site:

The interaction: As little as 250 mL of grapefruit juice can change the metabolism of some drugs.3 This drug–food interaction occurs because of a common pathway involving a specific isoform of cytochrome P450 — CYP3A4 — present in both the liver and the intestinal wall. Studies suggest that grapefruit juice exerts its effect primarily at the level of the intestine.4

After ingestion, a substrate contained in the grapefruit binds to the intestinal isoenzyme, impairing first-pass metabolism directly and causing a sustained decrease in CYP3A4 protein expression.5 Within 4 hours of ingestion, a reduction in the effective CYP3A4 concentration occurs, with effects lasting up to 24 hours.6 The net result is inhibition of drug metabolism in the intestine and increased oral bioavailability. Because of the prolonged response, separating the intake of the drug and the juice does not prevent interference.

Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing, especially in regards to methylated items. What are the risks in having a methylated supp in your system longer than what it should be in there for? Is there a criteria for how long it should be in your system for as well??
MK9

 

[n8te]

^^ sounds interesting. maybe mass or unreal can chime in on this. I'm gonna try to read that article later tonight

 

[tnubs]

err, does anyone here use grapefruit juice? it definetly makes it stronger.... for me, tho, in all the worst ways. i took the first 5 days of hdrol/epi with grapefruit juice and blood pressure was unbearable, since stopping, its gone down a bit but still higher than i would like. if anyone here goes on PHF, theres a lot of ppl over there that swear by grapefruit juice.

 

[UnrealMachine]

now i really want to try grapefruit juice

 

[n8te]

thats crazy I think i'll try grapefruit juice, I just hope I won't have BP problems like you said you had tnubs.

you were taking it with GFJ pre workout?

 

[tnubs]

nah, i just filled up a water bottle and drank half a water bottle with each of my three dosages of epi and hdrol. depending on how much u drink, its sometimes cheaper to just buy more of the compound. something like mdrol, the bottles so cheap you can just up your dose, because the juice is only gona last like 3 or 4 days per carton. its supposed to keep blood concentrations stable for longer times, so its good with compounds with a short half life. and when people run a non methyl like bold, since its so expensive after you spent 100-130 on the compound you can get more bang for your buck. id say try it. you can still use olive oil, just drink a little bit w/it like a chaser.

 

[Mass_69]

I don't think that grapefruit juice will do much for the 17aa steroids, since they are already resistant to breakdown in the liver, but may have some benefit in oral non-17aa ones. Just keep in mind if you go this route, that the blood levels of your other medicines will increase, too. So if you are on statins, etc., their concentrations will increase, too.

Here's another thread on the subject of steroids and fats/GFJ: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/85837-oral-steroids-oil.html

 

[MK9]

Definitely agree with you there Mass69, the methylated supp doesnt need to be "protected" from breaking down as it survives the metabolizing process from the liver at first pass.

Now I am curious if the methylated supp's half life is increased with grapefruit juice? Is there any benefit to that, or will it become toxic?
MK9

 

[Harry Manback]

Could it be said that you can take your oral steriod with your oral capsulated fish oil in place of the EVOO for these added expedional benefits?

 

[texastweeter]

harry, that is what I do