From 'Real Steroid' To OTC Pro Hormone

[scrappydog]

Hey guys, I'm not a bodybuilder but have been lifting and into bjj/mma for a long time. In the past I've used several 'real' steroids for the purpose of strength increases while actually trying to keep weight gain to a minimum. I loved Masteron for this purpose.

Anyone have a good recomendation of an OTC prohormone that works well. I'm looking for any boost in strength/endurance and not interested in weight gain at all.

If it had low shutdown that would be great too.
This new cynostane looks interesting. Does it convert to estrogen or cause water retention.

Thanks for any feedback, there are so many of these things now I don't know which ones have real value.

 

[TravisG]

epi, BOLD or hdrol with a **** ton of cardio. i dont know how you take ph/aas w/o weight gain tho.

 

[Zero V]

epi, BOLD or hdrol with a **** ton of cardio. i dont know how you take ph/aas w/o weight gain tho.

Some people enjoy cycling. Regardless of weight gain. Not every one wants to be massive. After 190 I plan to do strength/hardening based cycles if I still cycle, but I never wanna go over 205. never.

 

[jsheely]

Some people enjoy cycling. Regardless of weight gain. Not every one wants to be massive. After 190 I plan to do strength/hardening based cycles if I still cycle, but I never wanna go over 205. never.

How tall are you?

 

[jbryand101b]

Some people enjoy cycling. Regardless of weight gain. Not every one wants to be massive. After 190 I plan to do strength/hardening based cycles if I still cycle, but I never wanna go over 205. never.

I agree. but it's 185 for me. @ 5'9" i'll be happy maintaining 175-180. at this weight, I get enough looks everywhere I go. small bone structure, big muscles.
if you want to run a cycle without gaining weight, you just have to watch your water, calorie, and carb intake. you dont even need to do that much cardio, 15mins (of cardio) after your last lift each day is enough.

oh yea, to answer the ops question, when I ran "the one" I got stronger, and didn't gain any weight, maybe 5lbs. so that could be what you need. or epistane, didn't do anything for me either. but anyhow, experts on steroid use say any anabolic can be used for w/e goal, whether it be dbol for cutting, or oral turinabol for bulking, it all depends on your diet.

but I would go with the one. or epistane, maybe even hdrol. three options that will work for your needs easier than m14add or pheraplex.

 

[Zero V]

How tall are you?

5'10

Heck at once I am in the 180's I am gona be getting pretty flipping sick, heaviest I have ever been is 165 before something goes wrong(I recently ran out of money, so no food or gym membership=mass body suffrage. Surprisingly though I am still looking like I have muscle.)

 

[scrappydog]

epi, BOLD or hdrol with a **** ton of cardio. i dont know how you take ph/aas w/o weight gain tho.

Basically if you use steroids known more for 'hardening' or low weight gain. Masteron, Anavar, Winny for example, and you take them alone and you do a lot of mma training or other 'cardio' and keep your diet in check you get stronger/faster/more endurance without weight gain.

I actually have a good bit of experience with this with 'regular' roids. But as I get older, married, etc I dont' want the legal hassle and some of the bs associated with steroids. For a long time I had them and now I want to try some 'pro hormones'. Almost all their adds say:
'No estrogen, lean gains, hardening, insane strength'
But I'm just interested in hearing if anyone has experience with a PH that seemed to allign with my goals.
Thanks for all the feedback

 

[scrappydog]

oh yea, to answer the ops question, when I ran "the one" I got stronger, and didn't gain any weight, maybe 5lbs. so that could be what you need. or epistane, didn't do anything for me either. but anyhow, experts on steroid use say any anabolic can be used for w/e goal, whether it be dbol for cutting, or oral turinabol for bulking, it all depends on your diet.

but I would go with the one. or epistane, maybe even hdrol. three options that will work for your needs easier than m14add or pheraplex.

Thanks, can I take 'the one' without an anti E? How about for hdrol and epistane? I saw some people wrote that epistane can cause gyno others swore it could not.
Thanks again

 

[stxnas]

Hey guys, I'm not a bodybuilder but have been lifting and into bjj/mma for a long time. In the past I've used several 'real' steroids for the purpose of strength increases while actually trying to keep weight gain to a minimum. I loved Masteron for this purpose.

Anyone have a good recomendation of an OTC prohormone that works well. I'm looking for any boost in strength/endurance and not interested in weight gain at all.

If it had low shutdown that would be great too.
This new cynostane looks interesting. Does it convert to estrogen or cause water retention.

Thanks for any feedback, there are so many of these things now I don't know which ones have real value.

Cynostane logs should be popping up very soon. Here's the first that I have seen. Plz feel free to subscribe

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/134806-trauma1s-cynostane-log.html#post2118701

 

[TravisG]

I can definatly see where all the cardio can relate to no mass gain. It just seems to me that when I take ph's the weight piles on. but hey, for your sport; to get hard/fast and lean without weight is right down your alley. good luck. and try out some of those phs. you might like what you find!

 

[UnrealMachine]

You can maintain weight on mass gaining steroids if you adjust by lowering carbs and doing more cardio, that's what i did on my recomp even though i was stacking Superdrol and Phera at the end... they just allowed me to gain even more strength and hardness while losing fat and gaining muscle faster.

As for straight "hardening" PH you have to look at something like a stack between any 2 of these A) high dosed Hdrol B) high dosed prostanozol C) high dosed furazadrol D) low dose Epi

I'm sure any of those combinations will be awesome for what you want

 

[Libertarian]

Some of the OTC stuff like the Superdrol clones are just as potent as the illegal stuff. Also, some of the OTC compounds aren't "pro-hormones" at all, but actual anabolic steroids.

I would suggest looking to Epistane, H-DROL, or P-MAG (in that order). All those compounds seem similar to Anavar in that they promote strength and lean gains with no estrogen-related bloat/fat. Don't know how any of the compounds would effect your cardio, though. Epi is a real steroid the other two are precursors. Another compound I'll suggest thinking about would be Superdrol. But I just want to point out that some people occasionally report sides like bloat, though, which is why I am not suggesting it as strongly as the others. But, it could be what you want as you can run short cycles 2-4 weeks and make excellent gains, whereas you'd want to run the other compounds for 6-8 weeks for comparable results. I think Superdrol could make an excellent OTC compound for the Bill Roberts "2-weeks on, 4-weeks off" cycle protocol.

Before consuming any of these compounds, especially Superdrol which is the most potent, make sure you do your research and have everything planned out including PCT.

Also, you said you don't want to risk the legal troubles of illegal gear - what about ancillaries? Some people run OTC PCT products but I wouldn't recommend it. I wouldn't touch ANY PH/DS without at least some Nolva within grasp.

One more thing to keep in mind that just like any illegal oral, these compounds would greatly benefit from even a lower-dosed Test base. Not saying you can't make excellent gains without a Test base, you absolutely can, but expect to have a low libido and maybe some lethargy (depending on the compound) if you run without it. You probably knew that already, though.

 

[scrappydog]

Thanks, Yeah I don't want to use illegal roids but I do have a good supply of toremifene which is what I like for PCT. Doing only shorter lower dosed cycles of one steroid at a time I don't get too crazy with PCT. I can also get nolva easily.

You mentioned lethargy. That is a huge concern for me. I'm not doing a test base.
Which oral PHs are know to cause lethargy?

 

[Libertarian]

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure that there are any PH/DS that don't come with lethargy as a possible side. I personally wouldn't be too worried about it, though, as many people have said that a little bit of caffeine has helped them overcome it. "Slight" lethargy is pretty common, but I don't remember anyone reporting anything real severe.

If you're going to run any kind of stimulants like caffeine, make sure you keep an eye on your blood pressure. Really, you should keep an eye on your blood pressure if you're touching PH/DS or illegal AAS period. On my cycle of Test E + P-MAG my blood pressure was fine, but better safe than sorry. If you don't have one, the device you need can be found at Wal-Mart for like $15-20 if I remember correctly, and a FAQ on how to use it can be found here (copy and paste):

prohormoneforum.com/research-articles-user-guides/4809-diy-checking-your-blood-pressure.html


ETA: Also, I just remembered that another thing reported to help lethargy is increasing carb ratio.

 

[scrappydog]

Thanks. Right now I'm going to try H-drol and see how it goes. I always monitor BP get blood work and do all that fun stuff. I have a lot of experience with myself and others on AAS, even at the professional sports level, but not too much with the OTC stuff.
I actually think 'real' gear is safer because the effects have been pretty well characterized by real pharma companies, they've been around forever and there are so many who've used them and reported the effects well. I feel like these PHs are more 'dangerous' cause we don't know all the effects yet. All you have to start with is a hyped up advertisement that promises it won't cause gyno...hahaha

 

[xink]

I actually think 'real' gear is safer because the effects have been pretty well characterized by real pharma companies, they've been around forever and there are so many who've used them and reported the effects well. I feel like these PHs are more 'dangerous' cause we don't know all the effects yet. All you have to start with is a hyped up advertisement that promises it won't cause gyno...hahaha

I would say 99% of the forum agrees on this.

 

[Libertarian]

I think the "OTC PH/DS are more dangerous" idea is a pretty broad generalization. It's true that the popular illegal AAS generally have lots of clinical studies to back them up, but you can sit and read all day about people's experiences with the OTC compounds, view bloodwork, etc. A lot of the stuff you read might be subjective, but I think with adequate time and research one could come to a reasonable conclusion as to the risks they are taking with these compounds. In general, I think that the "lighter" compounds like H-DROL and P-MAG are pretty safe and yield excellent results comparable to illegal alternatives such as Anavar and Turinabol which are typically much more expensive. When you start talking about the more potent stuff like Superdrol clones and of course M1t, then yeah, the risks can increase (but so do the results usually).

For the most part I think the legal stuff has a bad reputation because of a couple main reasons. For one, an OTC PH/DS user is likely to be much less educated than the illegal gear user, and therefore will be much more likely to do something stupid and harm themselves. This results in lots of people posting on forums about their troubles with these compounds, many of which leaving out parts about how stupid they were (cycles that are too long, OTC/no PCT, running multiple methyls/drinking, inadequate training/nutrition, etc.) so they won't get flamed. Also, PH/DS are almost never ran with a Test base. Running with a test base would eliminate or at least reduce some of the side effects that are often complained about.

Anyway, I digress...

What would your H-DROL cycle look like? I ran P-MAG at 100mg/day and had great results with no noticeable side effects other than some slight discomfort from lower back pumps but they went away shortly. When I went to 125mg/day, I experienced some joint pain in my shoulders so I backed it back down to 100mg/day and was fine again. A lot of guys start at 50-75mg/day and at the end of the cycle they say they wished they started at 75-100mg/day. I personally don't see much of a problem with starting with something higher like 100mg/day, and then dropping down if sides occur. With just 3 bottles of H-DROL you could run a solid 6 weeker @ 100mg/day. Not bad for about $75 considering I've seen reports of people gaining over 15 pounds of lean mass on such cycles.

 

[scrappydog]

What are the common sides of The One, Hdrol and epistane? Can any cause gyno? lethargy? joint pain? low libido? long term/severe shutdown?
Those are my biggest concerns.

Since weight gain really isn't the goal I'll probably start with 75mg hdrol/day and go from there. I will probably only do 4-6 weeks.

 

[xink]

What are the common sides of The One, Hdrol and epistane? Can any cause gyno? lethargy? joint pain? low libido? long term/severe shutdown?
Those are my biggest concerns.

Since weight gain really isn't the goal I'll probably start with 75mg hdrol/day and go from there. I will probably only do 4-6 weeks.

All of them have the potential to cause gyno, that's why it's strongly recommended to have a SERM on hand for any PH.

As for H-Drol, most people starting starting their cycle usually use a lower doses starting around 50MG, a typical run looks like:

50/50/75/100

Also, not only is it key to have a SERM available, you'll also want cycle support throughout the run which you'll need to start about a week and a half prior to beginning your cycle.

Best of luck

 

[jbryand101b]

the one only has one designer steroid in it. a version of methyl dht. it is very mild, and I feel best suited for a first time user.

 

[xink]

the one only has one designer steroid in it. a version of methyl dht. it is very mild, and I feel best suited for a first time user.

Apologies and thanks for the correction, I'll edit my post.

X

 

[Abaddon75]

If I ever tried another PH, it would probably be h-drol. But I think I'm done with that stuff. I ran a Havoc cycle and it ended badly with acne and horrible hip pains that required an emergency room visit.

 

[jbryand101b]

If I ever tried another PH, it would probably be h-drol. But I think I'm done with that stuff. I ran a Havoc cycle and it ended badly with acne and horrible hip pains that required an emergency room visit.

that sucks. wierd that epistane (havoc) isn't very androgenic (causes acne)
and never heard of hip pains. huh, weird, hope you got it all worked out now though.

sounds like you should stay away from anabolic/androgenic steroids.

 

[Abaddon75]

that sucks. wierd that epistane (havoc) isn't very androgenic (causes acne)
and never heard of hip pains. huh, weird, hope you got it all worked out now though.

sounds like you should stay away from anabolic/androgenic steroids.

Yeah, the experience wasn't pleasant. I was a few days short of completing my cycle when I ended up the ER. The doc told me to stop right away. Too bad too, cuz that fourth week is when the size and strength gains started to show.

Someone else on this forum experienced the same hip/groin pain. Something happened in the muscle to basically cripple me.