Crazyfools experience with high dose EPITHIO

[crazyfool405]

hey as you all know ive been pushing limits quite a bit with a lot of things.

i wanted to share my experience with the epithio compound to help others in their venture to the darkside, or revamping current cycle plan...

epithio compounds are thought to have strong AI properties...

but with it being a 5a reduced compound we all know some AI properties are apparent.

with that said sometime in march i ran it with NPP and Test and had gotten blood work done while ON 50mg of EPITHIO my E2 levels were IN THE 40s, this is WAY above my normal.

my normal E2 levels are mid to upper 20s, libido is in the ****ter at under 20 and over 34,

with this said, EPITHIO definetly helped libido while my e2 levels were in the 40s however you can see that the E2 levels were pretty damn high for it to be a "strong AI to be used to ZAP gyno" liver enzyme were also only in the 100s i believe not too high i gotta re check those numbers. but they WERE NOT ALARMING

Now in terms of HIGH dose EPITHIO

i ran up to 120mg (yesterday being last day on an EPITHIO) i gotta say,

for me sweet spot was 70mg Strength and recomp were absolutely INCREDIBLE, i did NOT experience back pumps, shedding, or any of that sort no libido loss either..

it did aggrevate gyno about 6 hours after i took it and it became tender and bigger in size. i had to use Adex every night while on it.

i literally woke up leaner every day and was pumped ALL day long. From what ive read about anavar and what i experienced with epi i can only compare those 2 in terms of effects, however i do feel that ANAVAR may be more potent MG for MG from the research ive done with anavars fat burning properties

My back seemed to have cleared up as well while on 100mg of epi, may be due to reduced e2 levels? but DHT i know can contribute to acne as well. so maybe possible antagonism of that pathway may be a possible MOA?

The Vascularity at 100mg epi was something incredible veins popping out at all times, including my ribs which usually only happens after a workout or carb up, but i didnt need to do either to wake up and have them pop out

all in all i gotta rate this my top 3 favorite compound so far in terms of designers

it goes for me

1: Pplex
2: Epi
3: Hdrol
4: Tren-x
5: Sdrol

 

[AMTorres]

Gyno problems/ flare-ups within 6 hours of dosing 70mg?!?! That's a little more than the sides I'm wanting to deal with. Did you notice any of the gyno problems at 50mg? How about acne, what dosage did it start getting noticeable worse??

 

[crazyfool405]

Gyno problems/ flare-ups within 6 hours of dosing 70mg?!?! That's a little more than the sides I'm wanting to deal with. Did you notice any of the gyno problems at 50mg? How about acne, what dosage did it start getting noticeable worse??

i had a little gyno before that it was a smaller lump but controled.

its when i started with the epi again that it got larger weithin the half life of the compound which is why i added ADEX


acne got BETTER at 100mg

 

[UnrealMachine]

Interesting. So are the gains at 70 much better than 40? At 40 i got pumps and vascularity and hardening but no real gains. I don't know if a higher dose will remedy that, or just make the pumps and vascularity more intense.

I've considered getting 3 bottles and doing 70mg for 5.5 weeks, as a finisher to an injectable cycle in the future sometime.

 

[crazyfool405]

I'm on keto and with my diet and training along with it I managed 1.8 pounds from what I've seen. U know the deal

Chapperal labs had epi 120 caps for like 30 bux. I'm thinking bout geting 3 bottles and running it70-100mg per day in march at the end of a cycle lol

 

[mcgeier]

After what time did you experienced the effects of epi kickin in, since you used almost 3x the dose people normally use? Also which brand did you use?

 

[crazyfool405]

After what time did you experienced the effects of epi kickin in, since you used almost 3x the dose people normally use? Also which brand did you use?

epi kicked in for me around 2 weeks kinda a long time for me to feel it

i used 1.75 bottles epithine E and 1 bottle EFX

i think its a great compound,

i also think "trens" and superdrols suck well not a good superdrol like Sdrol by fast action

i dont think "trens" are as strong as people make it out to be ive been up to 120mg on it.

id never run it again

 

[UnrealMachine]

Tren is strong in the sides department though. For me it was pretty good for strength and great for vascularity.

Not much love for Sdrol? For me, 10mg of SD is >>>>>> 40mg of Epi, about = to 30mg of Phera, and = to 90mg of tren.
When i get to 20mg of SD it beats out everything I've tried hands down
At 30 it's not much better than 20, because i think it can't get much better, gains are explosive

 

[Tagio]

personally I don't buy the epi compound being an anti-e and your bloodwork definitely backs up my experiences on this, which was tenderness and pain at 30 and 40mg doses DURING the half-life of the compound. it would actually get better overnight when i was off, then start in a few hours after my first dose. I guess if I run it again I will do it like you did, with a real AI thrown in. besides estrogen gyno and slight subjective feeling of suppression in the 3rd week i had no sides and did gain some strength from my run.

 

[crazyfool405]

Tren is strong in the sides department though. For me it was pretty good for strength and great for vascularity.

Not much love for Sdrol? For me, 10mg of SD is >>>>>> 40mg of Epi, about = to 30mg of Phera, and = to 90mg of tren.
When i get to 20mg of SD it beats out everything I've tried hands down
At 30 it's not much better than 20, because i think it can't get much better, gains are explosive

i like SDROL,

Mdrol did nothing for me, so ive yet to run it again.

120mg tren is about =40mg phera IF that. id compare the 120 tren to 100hdrol more easily

 

[crazyfool405]

personally I don't buy the epi compound being an anti-e and your bloodwork definitely backs up my experiences on this, which was tenderness and pain at 30 and 40mg doses DURING the half-life of the compound. it would actually get better overnight when i was off, then start in a few hours after my first dose. I guess if I run it again I will do it like you did, with a real AI thrown in. besides estrogen gyno and slight subjective feeling of suppression in the 3rd week i had no sides and did gain some strength from my run.

id never run epi UNDER 40 ever again 70mg seems to be really good for me.

100mg i wish i had more because 50-60mg PRE workout was INSANE

 

[mooch2321]

youve been on cycle for like a year....i dont think the bloodwork you got would be relavent to someone whose running a four week epi cycle. And as far as getting flare-ups six hours after dosing...the half life of epi is six hours...so it suppressed estrogen for six hours than you had an immediate rebound.

 

[ejl]

Excuses my noobness, But isn't Epi suppose to be an estrogen receptor antagonist, not an AI? And if this is the case, wouldn't you expect to have elevated unbound E levels whenever you first start using it? (Since the epi is competing with the E, possibly at higher affinity, for the binding site).

 

[mooch2321]

Excuses my noobness, But isn't Epi suppose to be an estrogen receptor antagonist, not an AI? And if this is the case, wouldn't you expect to have elevated unbound E levels whenever you first start using it? (Since the epi is competing with the E, possibly at higher affinity, for the binding site).

hehehehe....stupid noob :laugh2:

 

[dustin06MR]

wow... 120mg epi is insane... have fun with that! ill read about it gladly though!

 

[mattikus]

I wish you would have gotten bloodwork on 120 mg of Epi. Thanks for sharing, may try mega dosing someday..

 

[citystreets]

Epithios i feel are a very dirty compound, theres a lot of mystery and theory surrounding its ant E properties and such. I found it to be very androgenic and un predictable, if gyno is gonna come its gonna come hard and fast. I literaly went to sleep and woke up with A cup tiddies, with a little lactation to top it off. A definite WTF moment for me. What sucks even more is, after going on letro and nolva, the lumps went away but the fat deposits stayed. I believe theres absolutely nothing you can do but surgery for abnormal fat placement like that. Sharing my thoughts here, those planning on going high dose epithio be prepared for anything.

 

[AMTorres]

Epithios i feel are a very dirty compound, theres a lot of mystery and theory surrounding its ant E properties and such. I found it to be very androgenic and un predictable, if gyno is gonna come its gonna come hard and fast. I literaly went to sleep and woke up with A cup tiddies, with a little lactation to top it off. A definite WTF moment for me. What sucks even more is, after going on letro and nolva, the lumps went away but the fat deposits stayed. I believe theres absolutely nothing you can do but surgery for abnormal fat placement like that. Sharing my thoughts here, those planning on going high dose epithio be prepared for anything.

Thanks for the heads up city, I will definitely keep that in mind for my journey coming up with Havoc!

 

[crazyfool405]

I feel epis act more like a serm givin muy blood work on it in march

 

[ejl]

Epithios i feel are a very dirty compound, theres a lot of mystery and theory surrounding its ant E properties and such. I found it to be very androgenic and un predictable, if gyno is gonna come its gonna come hard and fast. I literaly went to sleep and woke up with A cup tiddies, with a little lactation to top it off. A definite WTF moment for me. What sucks even more is, after going on letro and nolva, the lumps went away but the fat deposits stayed. I believe theres absolutely nothing you can do but surgery for abnormal fat placement like that. Sharing my thoughts here, those planning on going high dose epithio be prepared for anything.

I agree both times I've used havoc I had very sudden flare ups, but only once during each cycle and the first time it was only once I reached 50mg. Tamoxifen worked each time but I had fatty nips beforehand so it's hard to tell if theres any permanent dmg :18:

 

[AMTorres]

I agree both times I've used havoc I had very sudden flare ups, but only once during each cycle and the first time it was only once I reached 50mg. Tamoxifen worked each time but I had fatty nips beforehand so it's hard to tell if theres any permanent dmg :18:

so you think if i stay at 40mg/day I will be fine? I really want to get to atleast 50mg/day by the end of my cycle! But it depends on how my body reacts to it

 

[mooch2321]

hehehehe....stupid noob :laugh2:

I agree both times I've used havoc I had very sudden flare ups, but only once during each cycle and the first time it was only once I reached 50mg. Tamoxifen worked each time but I had fatty nips beforehand so it's hard to tell if theres any permanent dmg :18:

welcome to the board bro...my first comment wasnt meant to be offensive....i was trying to bring to light the fact that that wasnt a very noobish statement. My humor is very dry and most people just dont get it.

so you think if i stay at 40mg/day I will be fine? I really want to get to atleast 50mg/day by the end of my cycle! But it depends on how my body reacts to it

if you stay within the half life of the compound you should be okay...dose every four hours and you should not get a rebound till you come off. Ive found that epi gives me effects very similar to nolva....but because nolva is biphasic, having both a systemic and terminal half life we dont get the sudden flare ups(my speculation). So if your keeping within the half life of the epi which, as stated earlier is six hours, you should not be getting this rebounding effect that crazy and ejl noticed. Just be dilligent with your timing.

 

[the GUNSHOW]

what have your gains been like?

 

[UnrealMachine]

If i am getting this right, some people are experiencing increased estrogen during the active half life of Epi, while others notice the same thing only outside of the active half life (and are getting a daily estrogen rebound).

How can those two conditions be explained?

 

[mooch2321]

the only way to explain it is to do a study....a lot of these sides can be a psychological thing....if you think its gonna hurt after you take the pill and you tug and pull on your nip for an hour after you take it waiting for the lump to start up again, then yup its gonna hurt during the half life. Im not saying thats the case, but it could be one possible explanation of a question we will probably never get an answer to.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

the only way to explain it is to do a study....a lot of these sides can be a psychological thing....if you think its gonna hurt after you take the pill and you tug and pull on your nip for an hour after you take it waiting for the lump to start up again, then yup its gonna hurt during the half life. Im not saying thats the case, but it could be one possible explanation of a question we will probably never get an answer to.

Patient: "It hurts when I do this, Doctor"

Doctor: "Stop doing that"

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/97254-if-you-think.html

 

[liquid]

If i am getting this right, some people are experiencing increased estrogen during the active half life of Epi, while others notice the same thing only outside of the active half life (and are getting a daily estrogen rebound).

How can those two conditions be explained?

 

[dustin06MR]

welcome to the board bro...my first comment wasnt meant to be offensive....i was trying to bring to light the fact that that wasnt a very noobish statement. My humor is very dry and most people just dont get it.



if you stay within the half life of the compound you should be okay...dose every four hours and you should not get a rebound till you come off. Ive found that epi gives me effects very similar to nolva....but because nolva is biphasic, having both a systemic and terminal half life we dont get the sudden flare ups(my speculation). So if your keeping within the half life of the epi which, as stated earlier is six hours, you should not be getting this rebounding effect that crazy and ejl noticed. Just be dilligent with your timing.

noted... what about while you are sleeping though?

 

[ejl]

welcome to the board bro...my first comment wasnt meant to be offensive....i was trying to bring to light the fact that that wasnt a very noobish statement. My humor is very dry and most people just dont get it.

Well when people say mean things to me I just assume they are joking :18:
(thats my attempt at humor). TY for the welcome!

if you stay within the half life of the compound you should be okay...dose every four hours and you should not get a rebound till you come off. Ive found that epi gives me effects very similar to nolva....but because nolva is biphasic, having both a systemic and terminal half life we dont get the sudden flare ups(my speculation). So if your keeping within the half life of the epi which, as stated earlier is six hours, you should not be getting this rebounding effect that crazy and ejl noticed. Just be dilligent with your timing.

I think this is the key right here, but as dustin noted this can make sleep a real bitch, I used to take my last pill at 2 cause i can't sleep but now I'm trying to push it to at least 4, which is still scary thinking of my unprotected nips all night. To bad diphenhydramine makes my feel weak, flat, and unwanted

 

[ejl]

so you think if i stay at 40mg/day I will be fine? I really want to get to atleast 50mg/day by the end of my cycle! But it depends on how my body reacts to it

I'd say if you have tamoxifen or letro on hand then go for it have a ball I felt awesome at 50mg!

 

[ejl]

If i am getting this right, some people are experiencing increased estrogen during the active half life of Epi, while others notice the same thing only outside of the active half life (and are getting a daily estrogen rebound).

How can those two conditions be explained?

I think we are talking about two things here.
Gyno should be more likely to pop up outside of the half life due to binding of estrogen to clean receptors.
High unbound E lvls as indicated by bloodwork should be mainly experienced during the active half-life.
Does this sound right or have you seen bloodwork indicating high bloodborn E outside the active half-life?

 

[UnrealMachine]

That sounds right. No i have seen very little bloodwork for Epi. If it were cheaper I'm sure we could have it across every log and we'd come to more conclusions instead of anecdotal speculation.

I guess I am still confused about Taigo's case, getting nip sensitivity inside the half life; if epi is limiting the amount of estrogen that can bind to receptors, how is he seeing increased estrogenic effects during the half life?

 

[citystreets]

The thing is I dont believe there is much research on epithios to begin with, especialy a mthylated version of it so theres difinitely some unknown actions going on with it as well. For those of you planning on running it, I would recommend running it at no more than 20mg to be on the safe side and still get good results. I personaly ran mine at 40 and and the last week all the sides hit me outta no where, bad adema as well. My estrogen was thru the roof so i believe crazyfool's bloodworks backs my theory.. High dosing it makes you much braver than me.

 

[ejl]

That sounds right. No i have seen very little bloodwork for Epi. If it were cheaper I'm sure we could have it across every log and we'd come to more conclusions instead of anecdotal speculation.

I guess I am still confused about Taigo's case, getting nip sensitivity inside the half life; if epi is limiting the amount of estrogen that can bind to receptors, how is he seeing increased estrogenic effects during the half life?

Good question I have thought the same thing and Taigo's case is certainly odd. One hypothesis: I don't know how much affinity epi has for the different E receptors throughout the body. Wheras tamoxifen is selective for breast tissue, it seems like epi is definetly more systemic and may even have a weaker affinity for the breast sites. This is pure speculation of course but at intermediate dosing this would allow for some breast tissue E-receptors to become unocupied. Also, it could have to do more with Taigo's personal biochemistry such as receptor density that makes above situation more likely for him. I.E. If skeletal muscle had abnormally high E receptor density, most of the free epi would bind there, releasing the bound estrogen and allowing it to bind his titties. Once again, highly speculatory but it fits the data resonably well.

 

[AMTorres]

ejl, where do you guys get this in-depth with this information? I read about stuff like this alot and learn bits here and there but not quite that in-depth. I feel like I am knowledgeable about this stuff, but DAYAMN! you guys really know your stuff!

 

[ejl]

Well, I may have oversold myself lol, but for the best info IMO it's all about the journals. I can't link yet but check out the "Do research here" thread it has all the good spots. If you can't read the full articles online, you can pick a bunch of articles you want to read and then go to a college library (if you have one) and e-mail yourself all the full versions.

 

[dustin06MR]

I'd say if you have tamoxifen or letro on hand then go for it have a ball I felt awesome at 50mg!

on hand in case bad sides show? is that what you mean?

 

[ejl]

on hand in case bad sides show? is that what you mean?

Well, you should have one of them anyway for you pct unless your using clomid. I meant that if you are worried about gyno having these on hand is reassuring because you can use them at the first sign of enlargement and sensetivity and usually it will stop (or in my experience reverse) the effects. I dont get any other sides from epi except back pumps on leg day which are ****ing excruciating but taurine seems to be working well for it. I'm on 40mg right now gonna go to 50 next week for the last week of my cycle.

 

[AMTorres]

Well, you should have one of them anyway for you pct unless your using clomid. I meant that if you are worried about gyno having these on hand is reassuring because you can use them at the first sign of enlargement and sensetivity and usually it will stop (or in my experience reverse) the effects. I dont get any other sides from epi except back pumps on leg day which are ****ing excruciating but taurine seems to be working well for it. I'm on 40mg right now gonna go to 50 next week for the last week of my cycle.

Where can you finded the cheapest taurine??

 

[crazyfool405]

nutraplanet.com has some i believe

quinine works much better though

get that in diet tonic water (must say with quinine