[Tomahawk88]

Im not putting up a fight lol im just trying to understand

What if i run Hdrol with proper support supps
and 110% proper pct including clomiphene citrate
and gain 8 lbs and keep 6 that never go away?

Does that prove ive reached my natty potential?

No u r still doing plenty wrong. Make some adjustments, give it some time, and then see how u r doing.

[jherman08]

No u r still doing plenty wrong. Make some adjustments, give it some time, and then see how u r doing.

As a prohormone user yourself, why are you so dead-set on
convincing me not to do one as well?

[slacker86]

im 3 inches shorter than u and 25lbs heavier than u (my avi says 183 i just havent updated it). U HAVE NOT REACHED YOUR POTENTIAL yet. I do know people are different genetically but 165 is not your genetic potential. And if you gain 8lbs on cycle and u cant get past 165 naturally then u are probably going to lose those 8lbs after the cycle is over. And if your looking to gain mass you wouldnt do h-drol you would be looking more towards m-drol or something like that.

And if you keep those 6 pounds that dont go away that means u did a good PCT and maybe u will never lose them, however I can garuntee you 10 pounds that will never go away in a year just by changing your routine and cleaning up your diet and that advice was free. Plus u cant eat dirty on PH and AAS your bloodpressure will be too high and cholesterol is out of wack

[jherman08]

im 3 inches shorter than u and 25lbs heavier than u (my avi says 183 i just havent updated it). U HAVE NOT REACHED YOUR POTENTIAL yet. I do know people are different genetically but 165 is not your genetic potential. And if you gain 8lbs on cycle and u cant get past 165 naturally then u are probably going to lose those 8lbs after the cycle is over. And if your looking to gain mass you wouldnt do h-drol you would be looking more towards m-drol or something like that.

And if you keep those 6 pounds that dont go away that means u did a good PCT and maybe u will never lose them, however I can garuntee you 10 pounds that will never go away in a year just by changing your routine and cleaning up your diet and that advice was free. Plus u cant eat dirty on PH and AAS your bloodpressure will be too high and cholesterol is out of wack

Have you done prohormones?

[slacker86]

Have you done prohormones?

To be honest with u, I was thinking of h-drol a while back, but as of today No i havent touched a PH DS or AAS. However that will be changing soon. because i am very close to my genetic potential.

[jherman08]

because i am very close to my genetic potential.

How specifically do you know that?

[slacker86]

i have just researched my tits off about them because i knew 20 pounds ago i wasnt going to want to stop getting bigger. Thus here i am

[slacker86]

How specifically do you know that?

lol

[jherman08]

lmfao you bastards are gonna make me try it the
hard way again arent you?

The only thing im open to is shortening my workout which is still a problem for me.
I love working out its just that simple. I cant get enough of the powerhouse.
And with school back in ill be bashing my brains out if im not lifting.

[slacker86]

with that attitude why dont u skip the h-drol and go straight to a 16 week test e cycle 500mg/week, kick start it with 50mg dbol for the first 6 weeks, at week 12 do a 4 week anavar at 75 mg end to strengthen ur joints and lean u up a bit with some more gains. Run HCG thru the entire thing, and do a nolva/clomid PCT and dont forget to run adex at .5mg eod to keep water retnetion low and prevent gyno. You could probably gain 60 pounds off that since ur receptors are clean and ur starting at 165. I mean **** kid im trying to help u idk why ur making this hard

[slacker86]

the last thing anyone here wants is someone getting hurt and we all want to see each other get as big and as ripped as possible. Weather you are on cycle or not all the things we said are things that need to be attended to we just want to help

[jherman08]

Ok this is what this thread has caused me to do thanks to slacker and tomahawk.

I will switch up my training for 2 months and if that dont work
i will learn to eat clean, hopefully inexpensively. That will take roughly an extra month.
3 months total of doing what was suggested... if that still fails me do i get to have "reached my genetic potential"?

[slacker86]

i appologize for post #70 that probably wasnt necessary

[jherman08]

with that attitude why dont u skip the h-drol and go straight to a 16 week test e cycle 500mg/week, kick start it with 50mg dbol for the first 6 weeks, at week 12 do a 4 week anavar at 75 mg end to strengthen ur joints and lean u up a bit with some more gains. Run HCG thru the entire thing, and do a nolva/clomid PCT and dont forget to run adex at .5mg eod to keep water retnetion low and prevent gyno. You could probably gain 60 pounds off that since ur receptors are clean and ur starting at 165. I mean **** kid im trying to help u idk why ur making this hard

Is that your research or experience talking?

[slacker86]

Ok this is what this thread has caused me to do thanks to slacker and tomahawk.

I will switch up my training for 2 months and if that dont work
i will learn to eat clean, hopefully inexpensively. That will take roughly an extra month.
3 months total of doing what was suggested... if that still fails me do i get to have "reached my genetic potential"?

If that fails u i will personally come to your house and appologize in person, I will then go and pay for any PH u want and help u run it.

[slacker86]

Is that your research or experience talking?

i wish it was experience maybe some day lol when im 250 lbs and 8% bf LOL thats not anytime soon tho

[slacker86]

and thats all research thats why u wanna do research hahah

[UnrealMachine]

I do take all of your responses seriously and i do appreciate them all

But listen to this please.....

If i take in 10,000 clean and bad calories and gain NOTHING, NO MUSCLE, NO FAT
How is half the calories at 5000 clean going to make me gain?

Remember there is protein in bad food too, im not eating pure calories with
no nutritional value

Now you're claiming to take in 10,000 calories and not gain? what's wrong with you, that's not possible. What are you doing, taking in 10K one day and not gaining and then giving up? You're all over the place with this but it's obvious that you need to work on your diet.

There is no way you are eating 10k calories consistently and not gaining weight that's absurd

Now you're really just whining and looking for an excuse to run a PH... bleh bleh "i cant' gain" yeah i've heard that one before...

[jherman08]

If that fails u i will personally come to your house and appologize in person, I will then go and pay for any PH u want and help u run it.

lmfao thats not necessary thanks to Nutras clearance
lets just say i like to buy in bulk and keep things for awhile...
a long while

6-halos
3-epis
3-Sdrols

[17amethyl]

1st. we are trying to help you here, so you're defensive strikes of hypothetical circumstances- most of which you don't even fullfill (the 10,000 calories a day, etc.)- really are deterring many knowledgeable AM users from contributing the valuable input which you came here to obtain

on another note, ill try and explain this best in lay man terms bc when i was in your shoes i honestly though most of this muscle jargon was just some way to complicate the obvious and allow certain individuals to condescend over others...

so as simple as I can put it: when you do high reps, for multiple sets, on multiple exercises, hitting more than one body part a day, your quality of work in the gym will become inversely related to the time spent there…say for chest you do 3 sets of 10 on flat bench- you are exerting a great deal of energy on the first 2 lighter though high volume sets, thus depriving you of the energy needed to hit the higher weights on your final set…so, lets think, if you do 1-2 very light warmup sets, and then 1-2 HEAVY working sets, is it not logical that you would have more energy, and thus, an increased ability to lift heavier weights for higher reps on your working sets? cut out the bs weight and reps you know you can do, and get to the grinding work that activates deep and untapped muscle fiber...It makes perfect sense, and this logic is greatly advocated by legends such as Dorian Yates

furthermore, doing this will cut your typical “3 hour workout” in half…choose 2-4 solid exercises AT MOST for each muscle, and if you are not absolutely exhausted by the end of that spectrum of exercise, then you sir did not push yourself to your naturally enabled limit

for the bigger, “compound” muscles groups: quads, back, chest - it is more logical to allow a higher volume of exercise…and as for those ancillary muscles, bis, calves etc…a few high intensity sets will work them to the level necessary for growth

you say you are eating tons, but have little to show, well consider how many calories you are burning doing 4-6 sets of an avg of 10 reps for every exercise…this is where the principle of “more is not necessarily better” applies…by adjusting to this more appropriate volume of exercise, you will continue eating heavy as is, and be burning less calories: caloric excess= gains & muscle growth...at the same time, you will be lifting heavier: heavier lifting --> more strength--> bigger muscles

hopping on the hdrol with an overtaxed cns and continually exhausted muscle fibers will yield minimal gains in your situation…I mean this all in the best way and sincerely hope this helps explains things in a more lucid manner

[jherman08]

Now you're claiming to take in 10,000 calories and not gain?

I was using hypothetical numbers other than the 6000 just
to get my point across. But yea, definitely gonna log all my **** to a T now
just to ensure my genetic potential is maxed before i take the easy way out

[jherman08]

Good info 17amethyl

[17amethyl]

im not sure what your stats are, but just from your default pic alone, you look like you have a great build already...if you can keep your bf near to what you have it at now, and slap on some lean lbs over the course of the next few months, you'll look far more f'n ridiculous than your average saucer who gains 20lbs of mostly bloat on a cycle and then after cutting to a reasonable bf, has little to show

i remember you asking about what other supps are available to take: from my experience you could try using these natty test boosters which always helped me put on some very promising and permanent size gains: activate xtreme, mass fx, anadraulic state

[jherman08]

i remember you asking about what other supps are available to take: from my experience you could try using these natty test boosters which always helped me put on some very promising and permanent size gains: activate xtreme, mass fx, anadraulic state

That was the Op.
But yea, definitely gonna get some creatine mono and gluconate
during this labor day sale.

Have a bottle of DTH i guess i can run along side protein and creatine
now that i dont need it for pct.

[Tomahawk88]

Ya good to hear herman.

And my reason is I wish I could go back and would have waited longer till I had my 1st cycle. And trust me I was bigger than u were. I was about 5'6" 185lbs.

When/if u decide to do a cycle down the road def log it and let us all know so we can sub and follow it.

[nparisi]

I have to say I don't think 500g of pro is necessary for someone weighing 165. I doubt the body is going to process all of that. I would say get more consistent on what you eat daily. Have a base daily diet that you deviate from every couple days for a meal or two just to stay consistent within the same calorie range and avoid getting disgustingly bored w/ food.
Try adding 6-10 eggs per day, I noticed a difference consistently doing that for a little and changing not much else. Also good suggestion w/ the pb, eat it up. Look for "naturally more" it's great, it's got extra protein, flax seeds and tastes great(a honey/pb taste)
Good luck

[jherman08]

Ya good to hear herman.

And my reason is I wish I could go back and would have waited longer till I had my 1st cycle. And trust me I was bigger than u were. I was about 5'6" 185lbs.

When/if u decide to do a cycle down the road def log it and let us all know so we can sub and follow it.

Will do so probably in the next 6-8 months
if i can get my training down and eating down pat.
As stated before in this thread, unhealthy eating on
cycle could very well be a nightmare.

Thanks again everyone, i was literally starting my H-drol cycle
next month and was dead set on it. I even have the entire cycle
except for the clomiphene. Great advice guys.