I need help choosing a ph..

[Thewhizz]

I am 20 years old and have never cycled a ph in my life. A few of my buddies have cycled decabolen and dymethazine and have recommended it to me. I also saw h-drol and saw that was a pretty good ph. I have a lot of options and need some suggestions..any help?

 

[De Santo]

My only advice is wait until you're 25. Some of your friends will regret it when they need viagra to keep it up when their 30. Don't play russian roulette with your libido and endocrine system.

 

[Thewhizz]

So i shouldnt even use h-drol? I read its not as heavy as other ph's

 

[slacker86]

last time i checked no one on this board will recomend a ph to anyone under 21. Generally its also agreed that 21 is still too young. And at your height and weight, h-drol would just harden you up and act as a recomp a bit. You need more weight on u before you start dealing with PH's DS or AAS. Focus on increasing food intake cleanly, lifting properly. You should be able to get some serious weight just eating right and training well.

 

[slacker86]

by eating well i mean a clean 2,000 calories above what you are eating now.

 

[Thewhizz]

Yeah i understand a good diet is very important, but i read many reviews that said people gained 10 15 lbs on h-drol..

 

[Medic93]

Ur to young. Worry more about how ur diet is and intake of calories.

 

[jherman08]

What if someone takes in 5000 clean and dirty calories combined and gain
nothing over a 6 week period? Are you saying eating
3000 or 4000 clean calories only will make someone gain weight?

 

[De Santo]

Yeah bro, I agree with these guys. We're just trying to prevent you from make potential a long-term mistake that you might regret. You have plenty of room to grow at your height and weight. Don't worry about keeping up with your friends...you'll win in the long run if you wait and just stick to the basics for the next few years.

 

[Vance]

Yeah buddy, I know the promise of 15lbs of muscle in a month is tempting, but at your age you can just eat like a horse, train hard and stack that on. Focus on bulking (Eating right, lifting hard) through until you hit at least 21-22 and then you could possibly look at a short H-drol recomp cycle to drop a little fat.

Anything heavier than that and you risk messing up your body - and it still has a lot of miles to go on it.

 

[Tomahawk88]

Wait.... find out what it takes for ur body to grow training and diet wise. By then u will be ready for a cycle. Def do some research in between now and then. U can never know too much about PCT.

 

[Thewhizz]

Alright thanks guys, i'll stay away from the ph's for a few years. But in the meantime what are some safe supplements i could take to help with my muscle growth?

 

[slacker86]

everyone is giving you advice from experience/what they think is the best advice. You have a lot of room to grow and why would u want to start getting stretch marks just to get to a weight you could easily attain naturally? Plus foods a lot cheaper than cycles.

 

[slacker86]

What if someone takes in 5000 clean and dirty calories combined and gain
nothing over a 6 week period? Are you saying eating
3000 or 4000 clean calories only will make someone gain weight?

If you are not gaining anything from 5,000 calories a day and u want to gain weight you take in more calories/protein. so rather than a mixed diet of 5,000 calories take in 6-7,000 clean calories and comprised as closely to 500 grams protein as possible. Its pretty simple if you arent gaining weight you arent eating enough.

 

[Medic93]

Alright thanks guys, i'll stay away from the ph's for a few years. But in the meantime what are some safe supplements i could take to help with my muscle growth?

lots of food, protien and u can throw in some creatine. Also HEAVY lifts. That will stimulate ur natty test/gh.

 

[slacker86]

Alright thanks guys, i'll stay away from the ph's for a few years. But in the meantime what are some safe supplements i could take to help with my muscle growth?

I perosnally like animal m-stack. ZMA. Neovar(creatine). Jack3d (NO preworkout drink). and a good protein/weight gainer.

IMO a good weight gainer would give you A LOT of benefits for putting on muscle. ZMA is great, and animal m-stack is great for breaking thru walls in your training.

Keep doing research, u will hit heavy weight sooner than u think. LEARN PCT's thats the best advice i think i could offer anyone whos looking to eventually get into PH and AAS.

 

[slacker86]

Oh and if you wanna get serious gains fast. Quit drinking alcohol and if u smoke cigarettes quit that too.

 

[jherman08]

Its pretty simple if you arent gaining weight you arent eating enough.

Ok, and when i take in lets say 8000 clean calories
and still dont gain, then what?

Everyone is different as im sure you know, do i just keep upping
the calories?

My buddy takes in 3000 calories for 6 weeks and gains 4lbs (fat im guessing by the increase in his waist size)

I take in 6000 for 6 weeks and my waist loses a half inch.

Properly measured by the way.

 

[Tomahawk88]

Ok, and when i take in lets say 8000 clean calories
and still dont gain, then what?

Everyone is different as im sure you know, do i just keep upping
the calories?

My buddy takes in 3000 calories for 6 weeks and gains 4lbs (fat im guessing by the increase in his waist size)

I take in 6000 for 6 weeks and my waist loses a half inch.

Properly measured by the way.

If u are in fact counting calories properly and are at that high and still not gaining I would look into other habits like ur sleep and training.

 

[jherman08]

Training is down pat.

Started 4 years ago at 115 lbs

First 6 months trained without any supps or protein.
Next 6 months had 22g protein after each workout.

By year 3 weighed 165. Kept fluctuating from 165 to 155 literally
4 times a week.
Year 4 ive leveled off at 165. Eat whatever i want and gain nothing.
Eat whatever i want and cut all cardio/lifting for 3 months and still
gain nothing/fluctuate 1-2 lbs less from week to week.

Can that be considered a plateau?

 

[slacker86]

Ok, and when i take in lets say 8000 clean calories
and still dont gain, then what?

Everyone is different as im sure you know, do i just keep upping
the calories?

My buddy takes in 3000 calories for 6 weeks and gains 4lbs (fat im guessing by the increase in his waist size)

I take in 6000 for 6 weeks and my waist loses a half inch.

Properly measured by the way.

Ok I am pretty sure that anyone taking in over 6,000 calories will gain weight. Jay Cutler's offseason weight is around "285" and takes in about "7,600" calories based on his diet plan which apparently is very accurate to how he really does eat. Now if you are under 5 9" and over 285lbs of muscle then 8,000 calories might not be enough, but im kinda hesitant to say thats the case.

Generally yes you eat until u gain. There is no way around that unless you have hit your genetic plateau and i highly doubt that will happen sub 210lbs if you are in the 5 9-6 0" height category.

How tall are you? how much do you weigh? and whats your training experience?

 

[jherman08]

Roughly 5 '9 and weigh 165 lbs.
If i were making any of this up
why would i even be on here right now.

 

[slacker86]

how much sleep?
22grams isnt enough post workout up it to 70grams.
TRy to hit 500 grams protein A DAY.
Multivitamin etc nothing substntial ins supps should be needed.
Do you have low testosterone levels?

What training program do u use to lift?

 

[Tomahawk88]

How about a breakdown of what u eat on a normal day?

Maybe try a different method of training. What r u doing now?

Basically what u have said is I eat a lot and see no results...fix me.

 

[jherman08]

Oops skipped a thought as i was typing
I meant to add i take in 100g whey isolate daily now.
Have experimented with creatines and nitric oxides.
Havent been on any supp for 3 months and still no weight loss/gain.
Take 50g isolate in water after first body part is done
then another 50g post workout (after 2nd bodypart)

 

[jherman08]

I take in about 2500-3000 calories a day from fastfoods/restaurants (get take out with my grandmother daily often twice in a day)

Add in breakfast at my house, drive 30 mins to my gfs house
have a portion of what shes having for breakfast.

Eat whatever i want/can find in her house
Go to my house and eat whatever i want/can find

Eat dinner at my house
drive her home and eat dinner at her house.

Cant get more specific than that. Nothing is specific food wise
just write the caloric intake of each down.

 

[slacker86]

have u read about the DC training routine?

How do u train?

 

[hog928]

see i agree with jherman08 i am the same way i cant gain anymore and i eat more then ever there r people who stop gaining and cant keep going like others

 

[jherman08]

I already know what youre going to say about my training but heres goes.

Chest/tris - 3 good hours
Back/bis/forearms - 2 good hours
Legs/calves - 3 hours
shoulders/traps - 2 hours

Im guessing someones gonna say to cut my training time down
or more specifically what do you do for 3 hours..
Talking with others is a big no. Have social anxiety around others
unless its a buddy.

 

[slacker86]

your going to need to clean teh **** out of your diet im amazed you arent gaining fat from fast food twice a day. You arent eating well at all. You need to go into the bulking section of this and look at what people eat. Even bulking people dont eat fast food.

 

[jherman08]

have u read about the DC training routine?

How do u train?

Big fan of David Henry although i know Lee Priest
could easily snatch up the 202 Mr. O and will sometime in the future
but unfortunately have not looked at DC in detail.
Started looking into Hany Rambods FST7 method that created
Phil Mr olympia 2009 heath but never got into it.

 

[slacker86]

see i agree with jherman08 i am the same way i cant gain anymore and i eat more then ever there r people who stop gaining and cant keep going like others

I'm not saying genetics dont play a role but the first day of my diet when i start a "cut" is my favorite cause when im bulking im eating so much and drinking so much protein i feel disgusting everyday. It takes A LOT for me to gain weight and i push myself to eat and take in protein as hard as i can. Its not the heavy weight thats hard to do its the eating, diet and life outside the gym is what determines weight increases.

 

[Tomahawk88]

Ya u r def overtraining. After a while u r doing more harm than good.

I agree with slacker on trying DC. It will def be hard for u to adjust to since u wont be working out as often but u will def make gains. I am thinking of doing a Superdrol pulse with DC as my routine when I am finally able to bulk again.

 

[jherman08]

your going to need to clean teh **** out of your diet im amazed you arent gaining fat from fast food twice a day. You arent eating well at all. You need to go into the bulking section of this and look at what people eat. Even bulking people dont eat fast food.

I understand that, if i eat clean i can only manage around 3500 cals at most.
But.. If i cant gain weight the good old fashioned fat ass american way =p,
eating clean at half as many calories isnt gonna help me. Just my own logic.

 

[slacker86]

the 3 hours is too much after one hour straight of working out your body starts releasing cotisol, Thats a catabolic hormone, catabolic= breakdown of muscle. Ur actually making it impossible for your muscles to adequately heal and or grow.

 

[jherman08]

Ya u r def overtraining. After a while u r doing more harm than good.

If i thought for a second i was overtraining i wouldnt.
But if my muscle arent sore it couldnt possibly overtraining in my opinion.
could it?

Example
I do 6 sets of dumb bell curls at 50lbs for 10 reps.
Next day any normal bicep movement/daily motion is fine
but if i try to curl 50lbs there is obviously normal soreness
that should be there with proper muscle breakdown.

 

[slacker86]

I understand that, if i eat clean i can only manage around 3500 cals at most.
But.. If i cant gain weight the good old fashioned fat ass american way =p,
eating clean at half as many calories isnt gonna help me. Just my own logic.

lol thats where the hard part comes in Just push yourself if you are having trouble getting your eating up there at first start supoping with 2-3 weight gainer shakes a day, this will help you start getting accustomed to more calories.

 

[jherman08]

the 3 hours is too much after one hour straight of working out your body starts releasing cotisol, Thats a catabolic hormone, catabolic= breakdown of muscle. Ur actually making it impossible for your muscles to adequately heal and or grow.

Wouldnt i notice muscle loss/weight loss (only due to pure muscle loss)
over a 2 year period if cortisol was biting me in the ass?

 

[slacker86]

If i thought for a second i was overtraining i wouldnt.
But if my muscle arent sore it couldnt possibly overtraining in my opinion.
could it?

Example
I do 6 sets of dumb bell curls at 50lbs for 10 reps.
Next day any normal bicep movement/daily motion is fine
but if i try to curl 50lbs there is obviously normal soreness
that should be there with proper muscle breakdown.

No DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) actually has very little to do with size or strength. The reason you arent getting the soreness is cause the cortisol is released and its preventing your muscles from healing adequately. If your muscles where healing adequately your first or second (depending on which training routine ur doing) set should be able to go up in weight. Your weights your lifting should always be progressing upwards from week to week. IE you should be onto 55's next week. Oh and 6 sets on one bicep exercise for reps of 10??? thats just insane.

 

[Tomahawk88]

Just because u arent sore doesn't mean u can't be overtraining. 3 hours is def too long. U can make better gains in less time.

Cut out the fast food period. Carry around natty peanut butter with u all the time and eat that. Id suggest the smart balance. U have 5 servings of that a day and that is 1000 calories of goodness. Add in some postworkout carbs.

 

[slacker86]

Wouldnt i notice muscle loss/weight loss (only due to pure muscle loss)
over a 2 year period if cortisol was biting me in the ass?

you are losing all the muscle u gained in the first hour of your workout by prolonging the workout longer than an hour. essentially you are not allowing yourself to grow at all.

 

[jherman08]

lol thats where the hard part comes in Just push yourself if you are having trouble getting your eating up there at first start supoping with 2-3 weight gainer shakes a day, this will help you start getting accustomed to more calories.

I understand what you mean and im sure you get where
im going with this. Eating clean isnt cheap, eating 5000+ cals clean
is downright expensive. If i cant gain weight off of mcdonalds etc..
6000 calories, making them clean doesnt make me think it will have
a difference. Calories are calories in the end arent they? Im not talking
lean mass weight gain, im talking any weight gain at all.

 

[jherman08]

Oh and 6 sets on one bicep exercise for reps of 10??? thats just insane.

I try for 4-6 sets of each exercise regardless of bodypart.
how many sets are you doing of each bicep exercise?

 

[jherman08]

you are losing all the muscle u gained in the first hour of your workout by prolonging the workout longer than an hour. essentially you are not allowing yourself to grow at all.

So technically you are saying that cortisol is taking all my gains away
but has a kind enough heart to stop at just current gains and not
go into my past gains?

 

[slacker86]

I understand what you mean and im sure you get where
im going with this. Eating clean isnt cheap, eating 5000+ cals clean
is downright expensive. If i cant gain weight off of mcdonalds etc..
6000 calories, making them clean doesnt make me think it will have
a difference. Calories are calories in the end arent they? Im not talking
lean mass weight gain, im talking any weight gain at all.

Heres the problems with it.

1) eating clean isnt cheap at all and it is expensive HOWEVER opposed to the expenses of cycling a real bulking product like m-drol superdrol PPlex or whatever else you wanna cycle to gain weight its going to be more expensive especially when you include supps for during the cycle and PCT especially and you cant eat dirty on it or you could have serious health consequences.

2) clean calories are done because they are the building blocks of muscle and generall organ functions in the body. Mcdonalds will give u tons of sodium and fat, and since you are active all your going to do is **** out the fat and sweat out the added water you are retaining from the sodium. Calories are never just calories, thats why runners look for high carb sources to replenish glycogen to their muscles and bodybuilders get protein to build muscle. Fat in an active person will probably mean u will just **** a lot more. So to answer your question yes it does matter where those calories are coming from.

 

[slacker86]

I try for 4-6 sets of each exercise regardless of bodypart.
how many sets are you doing of each bicep exercise?

for biceps usually only 3 sets max.

 

[slacker86]

So technically you are saying that cortisol is taking all my gains away
but has a kind enough heart to stop at just current gains and not
go into my past gains?

yeah pretty much its just letting u stay where u are with no hope of going past that point.

 

[jherman08]

Ok im gonna be completely hypothetical here

Lets focus specifically on Pure Fat weight gain, thats the easiest right?

If i take in 50,000 calories from mcdonalds and gain nothing.
Taking in 50,000 calories from chicken is suppose to help me gain Fat (non muscle related weight gain whatsoever) better?

 

[UnrealMachine]

I take in about 2500-3000 calories a day from fastfoods/restaurants (get take out with my grandmother daily often twice in a day)

Add in breakfast at my house, drive 30 mins to my gfs house
have a portion of what shes having for breakfast.

Eat whatever i want/can find in her house
Go to my house and eat whatever i want/can find

Eat dinner at my house
drive her home and eat dinner at her house.

Cant get more specific than that. Nothing is specific food wise
just write the caloric intake of each down.

no offense but that's not a very serious mealplan. Do diet serious before you do "supplements" serious.

Also i really doubt you're consistently getting to 6,000 calories with that type of eating. Maybe sometimes but day after day for weeks... hard to believe.

I already know what youre going to say about my training but heres goes.

Chest/tris - 3 good hours
Back/bis/forearms - 2 good hours
Legs/calves - 3 hours
shoulders/traps - 2 hours

Im guessing someones gonna say to cut my training time down
or more specifically what do you do for 3 hours..
Talking with others is a big no. Have social anxiety around others
unless its a buddy.

You need to cut training time way way down. I think 90 minutes is an absolute maximum, most of my workouts are really about 50 minutes

 

[jherman08]

yeah pretty much its just letting u stay where u are with no hope of going past that point.

I have a hard time believing day after day of out
of control cortisol wouldnt eat into my past muscle gains as well.