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    Quote Originally Posted by jherman08 View Post
    Wouldnt i notice muscle loss/weight loss (only due to pure muscle loss)
    over a 2 year period if cortisol was biting me in the ass?
    you are losing all the muscle u gained in the first hour of your workout by prolonging the workout longer than an hour. essentially you are not allowing yourself to grow at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slacker86 View Post
    lol thats where the hard part comes in Just push yourself if you are having trouble getting your eating up there at first start supoping with 2-3 weight gainer shakes a day, this will help you start getting accustomed to more calories.
    I understand what you mean and im sure you get where
    im going with this. Eating clean isnt cheap, eating 5000+ cals clean
    is downright expensive. If i cant gain weight off of mcdonalds etc..
    6000 calories, making them clean doesnt make me think it will have
    a difference. Calories are calories in the end arent they? Im not talking
    lean mass weight gain, im talking any weight gain at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slacker86 View Post
    Oh and 6 sets on one bicep exercise for reps of 10??? thats just insane.
    I try for 4-6 sets of each exercise regardless of bodypart.
    how many sets are you doing of each bicep exercise?
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    Quote Originally Posted by slacker86 View Post
    you are losing all the muscle u gained in the first hour of your workout by prolonging the workout longer than an hour. essentially you are not allowing yourself to grow at all.
    So technically you are saying that cortisol is taking all my gains away
    but has a kind enough heart to stop at just current gains and not
    go into my past gains?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jherman08 View Post
    I understand what you mean and im sure you get where
    im going with this. Eating clean isnt cheap, eating 5000+ cals clean
    is downright expensive. If i cant gain weight off of mcdonalds etc..
    6000 calories, making them clean doesnt make me think it will have
    a difference. Calories are calories in the end arent they? Im not talking
    lean mass weight gain, im talking any weight gain at all.
    Heres the problems with it.

    1) eating clean isnt cheap at all and it is expensive HOWEVER opposed to the expenses of cycling a real bulking product like m-drol superdrol PPlex or whatever else you wanna cycle to gain weight its going to be more expensive especially when you include supps for during the cycle and PCT especially and you cant eat dirty on it or you could have serious health consequences.

    2) clean calories are done because they are the building blocks of muscle and generall organ functions in the body. Mcdonalds will give u tons of sodium and fat, and since you are active all your going to do is **** out the fat and sweat out the added water you are retaining from the sodium. Calories are never just calories, thats why runners look for high carb sources to replenish glycogen to their muscles and bodybuilders get protein to build muscle. Fat in an active person will probably mean u will just **** a lot more. So to answer your question yes it does matter where those calories are coming from.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jherman08 View Post
    I try for 4-6 sets of each exercise regardless of bodypart.
    how many sets are you doing of each bicep exercise?
    for biceps usually only 3 sets max.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jherman08 View Post
    So technically you are saying that cortisol is taking all my gains away
    but has a kind enough heart to stop at just current gains and not
    go into my past gains?
    yeah pretty much its just letting u stay where u are with no hope of going past that point.
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    Ok im gonna be completely hypothetical here

    Lets focus specifically on Pure Fat weight gain, thats the easiest right?

    If i take in 50,000 calories from mcdonalds and gain nothing.
    Taking in 50,000 calories from chicken is suppose to help me gain Fat (non muscle related weight gain whatsoever) better?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jherman08 View Post
    I take in about 2500-3000 calories a day from fastfoods/restaurants (get take out with my grandmother daily often twice in a day)

    Add in breakfast at my house, drive 30 mins to my gfs house
    have a portion of what shes having for breakfast.

    Eat whatever i want/can find in her house
    Go to my house and eat whatever i want/can find

    Eat dinner at my house
    drive her home and eat dinner at her house.

    Cant get more specific than that. Nothing is specific food wise
    just write the caloric intake of each down.
    no offense but that's not a very serious mealplan. Do diet serious before you do "supplements" serious.

    Also i really doubt you're consistently getting to 6,000 calories with that type of eating. Maybe sometimes but day after day for weeks... hard to believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by jherman08 View Post
    I already know what youre going to say about my training but heres goes.

    Chest/tris - 3 good hours
    Back/bis/forearms - 2 good hours
    Legs/calves - 3 hours
    shoulders/traps - 2 hours

    Im guessing someones gonna say to cut my training time down
    or more specifically what do you do for 3 hours..
    Talking with others is a big no. Have social anxiety around others
    unless its a buddy.
    You need to cut training time way way down. I think 90 minutes is an absolute maximum, most of my workouts are really about 50 minutes
    Mostly answered PM's
    Don't post on my profile, I don't read that stuff, PM me instead
    <------ Hard to believe, but I wasn't on any anabolics in the avatar shot
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    Quote Originally Posted by slacker86 View Post
    yeah pretty much its just letting u stay where u are with no hope of going past that point.
    I have a hard time believing day after day of out
    of control cortisol wouldnt eat into my past muscle gains as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jherman08 View Post
    I have a hard time believing day after day of out
    of control cortisol wouldnt eat into my past muscle gains as well.
    Well working out 3 hours straight is doing wonders for u isnt it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jherman08 View Post
    Ok im gonna be completely hypothetical here

    Lets focus specifically on Pure Fat weight gain, thats the easiest right?

    If i take in 50,000 calories from mcdonalds and gain nothing.
    Taking in 50,000 calories from chicken is suppose to help me gain Fat (non muscle related weight gain whatsoever) better?


    ok your hypothetical is very flawed but let me try this out and see if i can get u an answer to help you out.

    50,000 cals from chicken will give u MORE muscle mass, and drop the body fat % u have already. So essentially you will gain muscle and lose fat (thats why u clean your diet up and direct ur diet towards your goals).

    this is beccause you protein intake is so much higher with chicken because its all your eating as opposed to mcdonalds and the more protein u have the more ur muscles can build off of them.

    Really if u just change the 50,000 calories to 5,000 as u previously stated as you where taking in before. Its the exact same principle. Diet really is that important
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    Quote Originally Posted by jherman08 View Post
    I have a hard time believing day after day of out
    of control cortisol wouldnt eat into my past muscle gains as well.
    nothing in your body is ever out of control. You cortisol is released in appropriate amounts to counter act the overly intense regiment you are doing. The longer you workout the more is released, once u stop the cortisol levels off. Basicly ur creating your own problem by working out too much, And if u dont beleive it thats fine im jsut telling u what i have read and what i have expereinced.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    no offense but that's not a very serious mealplan. Do diet serious before you do "supplements" serious.
    I agree its not serious for the one and only reason which is
    i know its extremely hard for me to gain weight these past 2 years.

    If i was trying to make lean gains i would get down to a T with it
    but just trying to gain pure fat off of clean food with a mix of pure
    junk food and failing leads me to believe eating simply clean isnt gonna cut it.

    This is how i see eat

    Eat good+bad=no gain
    Eat only good=obviously no gain

    If i cant gain fat on everything the rest of the united states is gaining on
    lean protein packed meals isnt going to help alone.
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    I do take all of your responses seriously and i do appreciate them all

    But listen to this please.....

    If i take in 10,000 clean and bad calories and gain NOTHING, NO MUSCLE, NO FAT
    How is half the calories at 5000 clean going to make me gain?

    Remember there is protein in bad food too, im not eating pure calories with
    no nutritional value
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    Quote Originally Posted by jherman08 View Post
    I agree its not serious for the one and only reason which is
    i know its extremely hard for me to gain weight these past 2 years.

    If i was trying to make lean gains i would get down to a T with it
    but just trying to gain pure fat off of clean food with a mix of pure
    junk food and failing leads me to believe eating simply clean isnt gonna cut it.

    This is how i see eat

    Eat good+bad=no gain
    Eat only good=obviously no gain

    If i cant gain fat on everything the rest of the united states is gaining on
    lean protein packed meals isnt going to help alone.


    Ok listen everyone here is trying to help you i dont know why you are putting up a fight. Why dont u just try what everyone is suggesting??? I mean u have nothing to lose its not like u where making gains anyways... Clean up your diet with a focus of attianing between 300-500grams of protein a day and re work your routine to cut out before an hour. And look into DC. I mean if u really arent able to gain u have nothing to lose by trying what everyone here is suggesting to you. Dont even focus on calories focus on grams of protein.
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    Bad junk worthless crap food isn't going to help u gain as well as a clean diet.

    I say its because of his training he isn't gaining.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jherman08 View Post
    I do take all of your responses seriously and i do appreciate them all

    But listen to this please.....

    If i take in 10,000 clean and bad calories and gain NOTHING, NO MUSCLE, NO FAT
    How is half the calories at 5000 clean going to make me gain?

    Remember there is protein in bad food too, im not eating pure calories with
    no nutritional value
    No one is suggesting you cut calories we are just suggesting you clean up your diet. keep the 10,000 or 5,000 or whatever it is just make it all actually GOOD clean food. You will be able to get more protein more good carbs and more healthy fats. If ur eating 5,000 calores from mcdonalds now just change where and how u are getting your calories dont change the number of how many u are taking in
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    i think a combo of cutting the time down and eating healthier will do wonders for u.
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    Im not putting up a fight lol im just trying to understand

    What if i run Hdrol with proper support supps
    and 110% proper pct including clomiphene citrate
    and gain 8 lbs and keep 6 that never go away?

    Does that prove ive reached my natty potential?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jherman08 View Post
    Im not putting up a fight lol im just trying to understand

    What if i run Hdrol with proper support supps
    and 110% proper pct including clomiphene citrate
    and gain 8 lbs and keep 6 that never go away?

    Does that prove ive reached my natty potential?
    No u r still doing plenty wrong. Make some adjustments, give it some time, and then see how u r doing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk88 View Post
    No u r still doing plenty wrong. Make some adjustments, give it some time, and then see how u r doing.
    As a prohormone user yourself, why are you so dead-set on
    convincing me not to do one as well?
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    im 3 inches shorter than u and 25lbs heavier than u (my avi says 183 i just havent updated it). U HAVE NOT REACHED YOUR POTENTIAL yet. I do know people are different genetically but 165 is not your genetic potential. And if you gain 8lbs on cycle and u cant get past 165 naturally then u are probably going to lose those 8lbs after the cycle is over. And if your looking to gain mass you wouldnt do h-drol you would be looking more towards m-drol or something like that.

    And if you keep those 6 pounds that dont go away that means u did a good PCT and maybe u will never lose them, however I can garuntee you 10 pounds that will never go away in a year just by changing your routine and cleaning up your diet and that advice was free. Plus u cant eat dirty on PH and AAS your bloodpressure will be too high and cholesterol is out of wack
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    Quote Originally Posted by slacker86 View Post
    im 3 inches shorter than u and 25lbs heavier than u (my avi says 183 i just havent updated it). U HAVE NOT REACHED YOUR POTENTIAL yet. I do know people are different genetically but 165 is not your genetic potential. And if you gain 8lbs on cycle and u cant get past 165 naturally then u are probably going to lose those 8lbs after the cycle is over. And if your looking to gain mass you wouldnt do h-drol you would be looking more towards m-drol or something like that.

    And if you keep those 6 pounds that dont go away that means u did a good PCT and maybe u will never lose them, however I can garuntee you 10 pounds that will never go away in a year just by changing your routine and cleaning up your diet and that advice was free. Plus u cant eat dirty on PH and AAS your bloodpressure will be too high and cholesterol is out of wack
    Have you done prohormones?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jherman08 View Post
    Have you done prohormones?
    To be honest with u, I was thinking of h-drol a while back, but as of today No i havent touched a PH DS or AAS. However that will be changing soon. because i am very close to my genetic potential.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slacker86 View Post
    because i am very close to my genetic potential.
    How specifically do you know that?
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    i have just researched my tits off about them because i knew 20 pounds ago i wasnt going to want to stop getting bigger. Thus here i am
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    Quote Originally Posted by jherman08 View Post
    How specifically do you know that?
    lol
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    lmfao you bastards are gonna make me try it the
    hard way again arent you?

    The only thing im open to is shortening my workout which is still a problem for me.
    I love working out its just that simple. I cant get enough of the powerhouse.
    And with school back in ill be bashing my brains out if im not lifting.
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    with that attitude why dont u skip the h-drol and go straight to a 16 week test e cycle 500mg/week, kick start it with 50mg dbol for the first 6 weeks, at week 12 do a 4 week anavar at 75 mg end to strengthen ur joints and lean u up a bit with some more gains. Run HCG thru the entire thing, and do a nolva/clomid PCT and dont forget to run adex at .5mg eod to keep water retnetion low and prevent gyno. You could probably gain 60 pounds off that since ur receptors are clean and ur starting at 165. I mean **** kid im trying to help u idk why ur making this hard
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    the last thing anyone here wants is someone getting hurt and we all want to see each other get as big and as ripped as possible. Weather you are on cycle or not all the things we said are things that need to be attended to we just want to help
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    Ok this is what this thread has caused me to do thanks to slacker and tomahawk.

    I will switch up my training for 2 months and if that dont work
    i will learn to eat clean, hopefully inexpensively. That will take roughly an extra month.
    3 months total of doing what was suggested... if that still fails me do i get to have "reached my genetic potential"?
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    i appologize for post #70 that probably wasnt necessary
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    Quote Originally Posted by slacker86 View Post
    with that attitude why dont u skip the h-drol and go straight to a 16 week test e cycle 500mg/week, kick start it with 50mg dbol for the first 6 weeks, at week 12 do a 4 week anavar at 75 mg end to strengthen ur joints and lean u up a bit with some more gains. Run HCG thru the entire thing, and do a nolva/clomid PCT and dont forget to run adex at .5mg eod to keep water retnetion low and prevent gyno. You could probably gain 60 pounds off that since ur receptors are clean and ur starting at 165. I mean **** kid im trying to help u idk why ur making this hard
    Is that your research or experience talking?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jherman08 View Post
    Ok this is what this thread has caused me to do thanks to slacker and tomahawk.

    I will switch up my training for 2 months and if that dont work
    i will learn to eat clean, hopefully inexpensively. That will take roughly an extra month.
    3 months total of doing what was suggested... if that still fails me do i get to have "reached my genetic potential"?
    If that fails u i will personally come to your house and appologize in person, I will then go and pay for any PH u want and help u run it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jherman08 View Post
    Is that your research or experience talking?
    i wish it was experience maybe some day lol when im 250 lbs and 8% bf LOL thats not anytime soon tho
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    and thats all research thats why u wanna do research hahah
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    Quote Originally Posted by jherman08 View Post
    I do take all of your responses seriously and i do appreciate them all

    But listen to this please.....

    If i take in 10,000 clean and bad calories and gain NOTHING, NO MUSCLE, NO FAT
    How is half the calories at 5000 clean going to make me gain?

    Remember there is protein in bad food too, im not eating pure calories with
    no nutritional value
    Now you're claiming to take in 10,000 calories and not gain? what's wrong with you, that's not possible. What are you doing, taking in 10K one day and not gaining and then giving up? You're all over the place with this but it's obvious that you need to work on your diet.

    There is no way you are eating 10k calories consistently and not gaining weight that's absurd

    Now you're really just whining and looking for an excuse to run a PH... bleh bleh "i cant' gain" yeah i've heard that one before...
    Mostly answered PM's
    Don't post on my profile, I don't read that stuff, PM me instead
    <------ Hard to believe, but I wasn't on any anabolics in the avatar shot
  39. Senior Member
    jherman08's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slacker86 View Post
    If that fails u i will personally come to your house and appologize in person, I will then go and pay for any PH u want and help u run it.
    lmfao thats not necessary thanks to Nutras clearance
    lets just say i like to buy in bulk and keep things for awhile...
    a long while

    6-halos
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  40. New Member
    17amethyl's Avatar
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    1st. we are trying to help you here, so you're defensive strikes of hypothetical circumstances- most of which you don't even fullfill (the 10,000 calories a day, etc.)- really are deterring many knowledgeable AM users from contributing the valuable input which you came here to obtain

    on another note, ill try and explain this best in lay man terms bc when i was in your shoes i honestly though most of this muscle jargon was just some way to complicate the obvious and allow certain individuals to condescend over others...

    so as simple as I can put it: when you do high reps, for multiple sets, on multiple exercises, hitting more than one body part a day, your quality of work in the gym will become inversely related to the time spent there…say for chest you do 3 sets of 10 on flat bench- you are exerting a great deal of energy on the first 2 lighter though high volume sets, thus depriving you of the energy needed to hit the higher weights on your final set…so, lets think, if you do 1-2 very light warmup sets, and then 1-2 HEAVY working sets, is it not logical that you would have more energy, and thus, an increased ability to lift heavier weights for higher reps on your working sets? cut out the bs weight and reps you know you can do, and get to the grinding work that activates deep and untapped muscle fiber...It makes perfect sense, and this logic is greatly advocated by legends such as Dorian Yates

    furthermore, doing this will cut your typical “3 hour workout” in half…choose 2-4 solid exercises AT MOST for each muscle, and if you are not absolutely exhausted by the end of that spectrum of exercise, then you sir did not push yourself to your naturally enabled limit

    for the bigger, “compound” muscles groups: quads, back, chest - it is more logical to allow a higher volume of exercise…and as for those ancillary muscles, bis, calves etc…a few high intensity sets will work them to the level necessary for growth

    you say you are eating tons, but have little to show, well consider how many calories you are burning doing 4-6 sets of an avg of 10 reps for every exercise…this is where the principle of “more is not necessarily better” applies…by adjusting to this more appropriate volume of exercise, you will continue eating heavy as is, and be burning less calories: caloric excess= gains & muscle growth...at the same time, you will be lifting heavier: heavier lifting --> more strength--> bigger muscles

    hopping on the hdrol with an overtaxed cns and continually exhausted muscle fibers will yield minimal gains in your situation…I mean this all in the best way and sincerely hope this helps explains things in a more lucid manner
  

  
 

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