M-Drol pulsing and Test prop short a$$ cycle - AnabolicMinds.com

M-Drol pulsing and Test prop short a$$ cycle

  1. New Member
    ChrisSanderso's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    383
    Rep Power
    271

    Reputation

    M-Drol pulsing and Test prop short a$$ cycle


    I am back and ready for War.lol. I am going to do an experiment on myself with Test prop and M-drol. Now I will do a front load of 300mg of test prop the first day and run 200 mg eod for 4 wks with M-drol for 4 wks at 20 mg only on workout days M/W/F/S/T/ ( so day on day off) with first workout in the morning 10mg and second workout in the evening 10mg. ( I will split my workouts to only be in the gym 45min at a time and eat in between. I have 50lbs of protein coming in the mail. Then I will pct with Nolva, first day 80mg, first wk 40mg and last 3 wks 20 for 4 wks. I will also take proviron 25 mg throughout. After pct do 1 more 4wks cycle then 4 wks pct with hcg two wks before pct beginning and end.

    My reason is to see if short cycles work better with less sides. Also to keep gains more consistent and less harsh on the body. I think this is a chance for everyone to see if this works or not. Any feed back guys on what you think.

  2. New Member
    ChrisSanderso's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    383
    Rep Power
    271

    Reputation

    Oh and on my avatar I am on cycle 230lbs I am now 207, just getting over a tendon injury in my right elbow, do trades for a living so no rest for the wicked.
  3. Advanced Member
    slacker86's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Age
    28
    Posts
    838
    Rep Power
    488

    Reputation

    u should probably post this in the anabolic section rather than the forum suggestions and news section.. ull prob get a lot more responses there
    •   
       

  4. Senior Member
    learn's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,847
    Rep Power
    41288

    Reputation

    first of all this is the wrong section
    and second of all it is AA$ not A$$



    good luck
    Team Orbit
  5. New Member
    Jotan's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  202 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Age
    31
    Posts
    70
    Rep Power
    102

    Reputation

    Sounds good.

    Way too much nolva though, 20mg ED for 4 weeks is more than enough. You should include the TRS stack from Primordial and a decent test booster like DTH...
  6. Elite Member
    nosnmiveins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Age
    27
    Posts
    6,833
    Rep Power
    3521

    Reputation

    not a bad little cycle, to get the best out of it i would use test suspension, but prop should work. maybe do 150mg eod and run the prop a little longer?....~6 weeks
  7. New Member
    ChrisSanderso's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    383
    Rep Power
    271

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by learn View Post
    first of all this is the wrong section
    and second of all it is AA$ not A$$



    good luck
    The A$$ stands for short ass cycle.lol. Wrong section, sorry about that guys.
  8. New Member
    ChrisSanderso's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    383
    Rep Power
    271

    Reputation

    I will check into suspension, google man google.lol
  9. New Member
    ChrisSanderso's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    383
    Rep Power
    271

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by nosnmiveins View Post
    not a bad little cycle, to get the best out of it i would use test suspension, but prop should work. maybe do 150mg eod and run the prop a little longer?....~6 weeks

    Doing my research it says you loose the susp gains fast , is that true.
  10. Senior Member
    neverstop's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,241
    Rep Power
    735

    Reputation

    i dont see the reason to pulse the orals if you're on test prop, since the test prop will shut you down and will be in your blood in the evening. if you were using test suspension that would be different. a 4 week cycle will have little shutdown regardless. running test with orals makes an ENORMOUS difference too. sounds like fun.
  11. New Member
    ChrisSanderso's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    383
    Rep Power
    271

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by neverstop View Post
    i dont see the reason to pulse the orals if you're on test prop, since the test prop will shut you down and will be in your blood in the evening. if you were using test suspension that would be different. a 4 week cycle will have little shutdown regardless. running test with orals makes an ENORMOUS difference too. sounds like fun.
    I can get susp at 100mg/per ml eo based ,I would pulse the oral cause m-drol is harsh for the liver and not just for shut-down. I did more research on the suspension and they say with site injections those muscle show size increase, no that is appealing
  12. Elite Member
    UnrealMachine's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  218 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,083
    Rep Power
    5025

    Reputation

    I think site injection is BS... test susp is good though, you going for 1mL a day or .5mL twice a day?
    Mostly answered PM's
    Don't post on my profile, I don't read that stuff, PM me instead
    <------ Hard to believe, but I wasn't on any anabolics in the avatar shot
  13. New Member
    ChrisSanderso's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    383
    Rep Power
    271

    Reputation

    I would do 1 inject a day, is eo based ok I can't get the water based here in Canada
  14. New Member
    ChrisSanderso's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    383
    Rep Power
    271

    Reputation

    I may do prop because I get better bang for my buck 20ml at 200mg and the suspension is 20ml at 100mg
  15. New Member
    ChrisSanderso's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    383
    Rep Power
    271

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by neverstop View Post
    i dont see the reason to pulse the orals if you're on test prop, since the test prop will shut you down and will be in your blood in the evening. if you were using test suspension that would be different. a 4 week cycle will have little shutdown regardless. running test with orals makes an ENORMOUS difference too. sounds like fun.
    I have the support supps in the mail for M-drol. Do you think just do m-drol 3 weeks, test prop 4. PCT for 4 wks Wait 2 months then hit it again, same cycle if results are great or the pulse method 20 mg on workout days no - more then 4 times a week for 1 month and test prop 100 eod for 4 wks.


    I have Nolva but I'm thinking I should get hcg as well or a naaty booster. Input guys please.
  16. New Member
    ChrisSanderso's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    383
    Rep Power
    271

    Reputation

    I got my support sups today. Someone said before that your body can only gain so much weight in 4 weeks. So I am thinking maybe m-drol first, pct then test prop.
  17. New Member
    ChrisSanderso's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    383
    Rep Power
    271

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jotan View Post
    Sounds good.

    Way too much nolva though, 20mg ED for 4 weeks is more than enough. You should include the TRS stack from Primordial and a decent test booster like DTH...
    my nolva is 25mg, I think that should be fine.
  18. Advanced Member
    Libertarian's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    583
    Rep Power
    0

    Reputation

    If you want to do a short "blast cycle", check into Bill Robert's 2 on/2-4 off protocol (you can safely do 10+ cycles per year). Basically, if your cycle only lasts 2 weeks recovery will come VERY fast. However, once you go into 3+ weeks, you lose this benefit and might as well extend the cycle to 6-8 weeks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts
    The two-week cycles do give really fast recovery. It's not that there is no HPTA shutdown, as there is during the two weeks, but the pituitary is immediately ready to respond to LHRH instead of so to speak having to be awakened from sleep (in more precise speaking, having greatly lowered LHRH responsiveness), and the testes are also immediately ready to respond to LH.
    In other words, if you're going to do 4 weeks, you might as well extend it a few more weeks.
  19. New Member
    ChrisSanderso's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    383
    Rep Power
    271

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    If you want to do a short "blast cycle", check into Bill Robert's 2 on/2-4 off protocol (you can safely do 10+ cycles per year). Basically, if your cycle only lasts 2 weeks recovery will come VERY fast. However, once you go into 3+ weeks, you lose this benefit and might as well extend the cycle to 6-8 weeks.



    In other words, if you're going to do 4 weeks, you might as well extend it a few more weeks.
    Thanks man, here another 1 to think of Copy and paste


    What about 2 week cycles of M-drol?


    Steroids for health-SHORT CYCLES Explained
    por j.c. el Lun Jul 02, 2007 9:05 pm

    I would like to explain the benefits of short cycles for the recreational lifter, and that includes 95% of us I think. I would also like to clear up a few misconceptions in regard to short cycles in general.

    WHAT MAKES A CYCLE SHORT

    Short cycles are steroid cycles that do not exceed 4 weeks ,with 2-3 weeks "on" preferred.

    WHY DO SHORT CYCLES

    The main reason is to limit the negative health impact that steroids DO have on users.
    For those of you that don't get lab work done while on steroids I would have you know that steroid use causes a very bad shift in the lipid profile. HDL(good cholesterol) which acts like a sticky sweeping broom to sweep up bad LDL (bad cholesterol) and prevent plaque build up on atery walls, goes EXTREMELY LOW in, dare I say, ALL MEN. Not only this but LDL levels usually climb and this is combo is not good.
    Short cycles still cause a crappy lipid shift but not to the same degree as the long cycle. Also less time "On" means less time for potential aterial plaque build up.
    After my last long cycle of 8 weeks I had some blood work done and my doc HAD A COW as my hdl to total cholesterol ratio was extremely poor.

    There isn't a damn thing you can do to significantly avoid this....you can take niacin , flax oil , do cardio and have a pefect diet low in saturated fat and you will STILL get a very ****ty lipid profile.

    So a very bad lipid profile with high ldl and rock bottom hdl is a SIGNIFICANT risk factor for aterial plaque build up and heart disease. As a side....anyone that thinks "Arny" only got his aortic valve done doesn't have a clue. I know for a fact that he had a coronary bypass as I have worked with members of the heart team that did his operation.

    True there are other risk factors for heart disease but this is a big one and well documented as well.

    HEW!!! Next ...short cycles limit other side effects like hair loss, acne, high Blood pressure and resulting kidney stress, testicular shrinkage and poor HPTA rebound.

    Also short cycles are a heck of a lot easier on the old liver especially if 17aa orals are used....got to love d-bol he he he !

    WHAT SHORT CYCLES ARE NOT

    Short cycles will not result in bigger gains. Short cycles will not allow one to be competive in todays national level competitions. Short cycles will not give you 30 pounds of bulk at one time.

    WHAT SHORT CYCLES CAN DO

    Short cycles can give you decent gains that are FAR better than what you could attain to as a natural. Gains of 10 pounds are not infrequently kept form a short cycle with the novice or those that are not at least very close to their natural maximum weight.

    Short cycles will allow a much quicker HPTA recovery than a long cycle and this allows one to kepp a higher percentage of ones gains. In fact full testosterone rebound often happens in but a week. Gains often continue in the weeks after the short cycle is over simply because ones natural test production often jumps a little higher than normal becuase the pituitary really hammers out the LH and the testes have not shunk.
    My natural test production is quite good for a man of 40, at 550. I tested my test level a week after I stopped a 14 day cycle and it had rebonded to 650 from the immediate pre cycle 550. On day 15 it was down to 54!

    How many of you bro's have experience gains AFTER coming off a 8 weeker...not a one I would say.

    Lets face it bro's if you gain 25 -30 pouns of bulk in a long cycle you sure the hell aren't going to be able to hang onto more than 15 of those pounds over the next 6 months unless you were WAY WAY under your potential to begin with.

    BEFORE DOING SHORT CYCLES.....

    learn how to train and gain WITHOUT steroids. This is critical! IF one knows how to train without gear then adding a small amount of gear over a short period of time can result in great gains.
    Trouble is almost nobody knows how to gain without steroids so they do the large doses over long periods of time to compensate for their chronic over training and poor training, sleeping habits.

    ORIGIN OF SHORT CYCLES AND VARIATIONS

    Well I am sure that there have always been men that used short cycles but the first one that I know of that actually spoke up on the matter was NELSON MONTANA, formerly of T-MAG.

    NELSON MONTANA advocated, and still does advocate, cycles of 3 weeks in length. Modest doses are used of 1000mg per week TOTAL or less. Injectables and orals are used. Usually the injectable is in a long acting ester and not injected once per week but several times per week in smaller doses as he belives this is better for anabolism. Nelsons favorite steroid is PRIMO but he does like sust, d-bol, winny and anavar. He will not use or recommend vet steroids like EQ or tren. He does not recommend nandrolone.

    Nelson believes three weeks will offers the best trade off between gains and sides. He thinks two weeks "on" is not quite enough time "on"
    His favorite combo's are sust/d-bol or primo/anavar.

    Here is an example of Nelsons three weeker.

    WEEK ONE
    DAY ONE sust 250mg, day 3 primo 100mg, day 5 primo 100mg, day 7 primo 100mg. 25 of d-bol in divided doses per day.

    WEEK TWO
    Test cyp or enanthate 100mg, day 10 primo 100mg and day 12 primo 100mg, day 14 primo 100mg. 25 of winny per day

    WEEK THREE
    day 16 primo 100, day 18 primo 100, day 20 primo 100 and day 22 primo 100 and also anavar 25 per day

    Notice how the cycle uses weaker orals as the weeks go on and the non aromatizable and weker primo . This is to limit inhibition to some degree AND also to limit water gain for good post cycle lean tissue realization

    WEEK FOUR ...OPTIONAL
    25 of proviron for 5 days and only in the am. This is to help with sex drive, prevent estrogen back lash and act as a mild form of a taper. 25 mg only done in the am is not very inhibitory. I like its ability to ward off estrogen rebound post cycle.

    Nelson does not believe that Clomid is necessary after his cycles and may actually cause harm in some men.

    The above is a complicated cycle that is not cheap but Nelson thinks it is the ultimate short cycle. Similar but cheaper short cycle s can be based on the MONTANA METHOD.

    IN COMES BILL ROBERTS!!!

    Now Bill Roberts has been preaching short cycles for some time know, but not as long as Nelson. He says that he was taught his method but a Greek physicain that trains athletes in Europe. It is strange that he never even mentions Nelson and his method and this tells me that he may have stolen the idea from Nelson in the first place.

    Anyway Roberts recommends higher doses of strickly short acting injectables and powerful orals. Front loading injectables is recommended.
    Roberts is a big believer in Clomid post cycle. He also believes in using HCG if cycles are long or less than 4 weeks are taken between repeated two week cycles ,so as to prevent testicular shrinkage and the resulting poor HPTA recovery.

    Roberts believes that after two weeks the pituitary becomes inhibited and not just the testes and hypothalamus and thus he recommends 14 days "on" as the limit IF you are striving for very rapid HPTA recovery.

    I have used the "Roberts" cycles with good success as have many others including a few of my close friends but I plan on trying Nelsons method soon.

    ROBERTS EXAMPLES


    Day one, tren front loaded at 150mg and then tren 75 mg per day through day 12.
    Dbol 50 mg per day in divided doses through day 14.
    Clomid therapy starting day 15 and for 4 weeks or three weeks if Clomid was used as an anti estrogen during the "on" weeks. He will also use estrogen inhibitors if aromatization is expected to be high.

    Second example for the larger man...
    Test prop 300mg on day one and then 100-150mg per day for 11 days. Tren 150mg per day on day one and then 50-75 per day for 12 days, winstrol 50 mg per day for 14 days.

    Other combo's include Tren/winny., test/d-bol winny., Tren/winny /d-bol....etc etc..

    Notice that no long acting injectable is used. This is done to allow for a very rapid post cycle elimination of androgens so as to prevent additional lengthening of the cycle. This is Key point in the Roberts two weeker because he believes that any time "on" past two weeks will not allow for the most rapid HPTA recovery. He goes so far as to say that recovery after three week "on" is not especially quicker than recover after 8 weeks "on"

    Roberts sites many examples of 7-10 plus pounds kept from his two weekers.

    The man that is above his natural max weight (ie: 5'9-10 " and a leanish 190) cannot expect to gains 10 pounds in two weeks but 5 pounds in not uncommon.

    NOTE>>> Both Roberts and Montana recommend at least 4 weeks off between these cycles. Roberts does say that two weeks off can be okay, but if repeated two weekers are done then HCG should be used during the cycle at 500iu's per day to prevent testicular shrinkage over the months.

    So try short cycles if you are really concerned about your health and want to minimize the risks of steroid use, yet still wish to use steroids , and if you want to keep a higher percentage of your gains from a cycle.

    Good luck and I hope this clears a few things up
  20. New Member
    ChrisSanderso's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    383
    Rep Power
    271

    Reputation

    By the way I decided on a 2 wk m-drol cycle comming up soon. Just doing the pre-cycle support for two weeks, I will have to double check but I believe I have 1 week left before the m-drol.
  21. Advanced Member
    Libertarian's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    583
    Rep Power
    0

    Reputation

    Let us know how it turns out. What dosage are you running?
  22. New Member
    ChrisSanderso's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    383
    Rep Power
    271

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisSanderso View Post
    By the way I decided on a 2 wk m-drol cycle comming up soon. Just doing the pre-cycle support for two weeks, I will have to double check but I believe I have 1 week left before the m-drol.
    20 mg 2 weeks, I started a log, will take pics on first and final day.
  23. Advanced Member
    Libertarian's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    583
    Rep Power
    0

    Reputation

    Don't be surprised if you get bashed a lot for running a 2-week cycle. I've never seen anyone who has actually ran a proper 2-week cycle say anything but good things about it, but people who haven't ran it love to bash it as if they knew what they were talking about. Usually I think criticism is derived as an attempt to rationalize the ridiculously long cycles they run themselves.
  24. New Member
    ChrisSanderso's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    383
    Rep Power
    271

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    Don't be surprised if you get bashed a lot for running a 2-week cycle. I've never seen anyone who has actually ran a proper 2-week cycle say anything but good things about it, but people who haven't ran it love to bash it as if they knew what they were talking about. Usually I think criticism is derived as an attempt to rationalize the ridiculously long cycles they run themselves.


    Thanks Bro for the heads up, I will do my best to change there minds with a proper log, thanks again
  25. Advanced Member
    Libertarian's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    583
    Rep Power
    0

    Reputation

    Are you going to start another 2-week cycle after 2 weeks of PCT? The beauty of the 2-week cycle is that your recovery comes extremely fast, and many people have had great success running 3 or so 2-on/2-off cycles before taking 4-6 weeks off and then starting another series.

    Here's how Bill Roberts once explained it:
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts
    I generally explain it in terms of weeks on per year, and the following subjective and unprovable appraisal that being on 1/3 of the time is conservative but can be quite effective; being on half the time is pushing it a little more but is still exercising some caution and isn't extreme; and being on 2/3 or more is being quite aggressive and doesn't necessarily give much more results by the end of the year.

    And with regard to alkylateds, it's probably best to not be on them more than half the time; it is more cautious to limit use to 6 weeks at a time; in general it is best to average at least as much time off of them as on; but it's acceptable to have two stretches such as 6 weeks with a shorter time between them such as 2 weeks, or some modest number of 2 on / 1 off cycles before having a longer break off of the alkylateds.

    Just make sure that if you want to run a short cycle, keep it at 2 weeks. Once you go beyond that you lose the greatest advantage and might as well bump it up to 6-8 weeks:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Roberts
    I have to question the 3 week idea. It misses the advantage of the 2 week cycle of avoiding inhibition of the pituitary, which doesn’t seem to begin until week 3, and misses the more-time-making-gains advantage of longer cycles.
    The 2-weekers like you're running, according to reports I've read by people who have ran them, seem to have awesome gains to sides ratios. Many people report almost no sides at all (especially when running a Test base) since many sides usually don't kick in until later in the longer cycles. Since you're not running Test you might experience some lethargy and whatnot, but at 20mg/day I wouldn't be too worried.

    Also, I saw people in your log thread questioning your use of Nolva instead of Clomid. I think Nolva was the right choice. Very few "experts" will recommend Clomid over Nolva nowadays, and even less would recommend taking both.

    One more thing, don't worry about hCG, I've seen Roberts explain that it wouldn't be beneficial on such a short cycle.
  26. Elite Member
    UnrealMachine's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  218 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,083
    Rep Power
    5025

    Reputation

    Where are the experts saying nolva is better than clomid? For 2 years i used nolva because that's what is preached about on PH-related forums, and for me clomid is far superior without any doubt, and with a compound like Superdrol the clomid only makes more sense.

    Me and mooch may not be "experts" but at least we have tried both

    Concerning 2 week cycles, the biggest advantage is being able to do 2 on and 2 off, but really the gains in any 2 week cycle are exaggerated. Say you run a SD 4 weeker and gain 16 pounds, 12 of them occurring in the first 2 weeks. Did you make 75% of your gains during the first 2 weeks? No, most of the gains come mid and late in the cycle; the first 2 weeks is just the water and glycogen build up period. So 2 weekers with SD will lead to a huge amount of water and glycogen loading and not enough time to build a large amount of muscle. I am sure some of the weight will stick around for a while but ultimately it's mostly temporary weight.
    Mostly answered PM's
    Don't post on my profile, I don't read that stuff, PM me instead
    <------ Hard to believe, but I wasn't on any anabolics in the avatar shot
  27. New Member
    ChrisSanderso's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    383
    Rep Power
    271

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    Are you going to start another 2-week cycle after 2 weeks of PCT? The beauty of the 2-week cycle is that your recovery comes extremely fast, and many people have had great success running 3 or so 2-on/2-off cycles before taking 4-6 weeks off and then starting another series.

    Here's how Bill Roberts once explained it:


    Just make sure that if you want to run a short cycle, keep it at 2 weeks. Once you go beyond that you lose the greatest advantage and might as well bump it up to 6-8 weeks:



    The 2-weekers like you're running, according to reports I've read by people who have ran them, seem to have awesome gains to sides ratios. Many people report almost no sides at all (especially when running a Test base) since many sides usually don't kick in until later in the longer cycles. Since you're not running Test you might experience some lethargy and whatnot, but at 20mg/day I wouldn't be too worried.

    Also, I saw people in your log thread questioning your use of Nolva instead of Clomid. I think Nolva was the right choice. Very few "experts" will recommend Clomid over Nolva nowadays, and even less would recommend taking both.

    One more thing, don't worry about hCG, I've seen Roberts explain that it wouldn't be beneficial on such a short cycle.


    I am only going to do a 2 weeker to see how the gains are and if they stick around. I think we are all curious how this will turn out. Also I have never tried clomid so personally I can only make my decision based my own research, not personal experience,yet. Hope you guys wish me luck and I have to say I am very excited to get this cycle underway.

    Thanks for loggin in and appreciate your input.
  28. Advanced Member
    Libertarian's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    583
    Rep Power
    0

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    Where are the experts saying nolva is better than clomid? For 2 years i used nolva because that's what is preached about on PH-related forums, and for me clomid is far superior without any doubt, and with a compound like Superdrol the clomid only makes more sense.

    Me and mooch may not be "experts" but at least we have tried both

    Concerning 2 week cycles, the biggest advantage is being able to do 2 on and 2 off, but really the gains in any 2 week cycle are exaggerated. Say you run a SD 4 weeker and gain 16 pounds, 12 of them occurring in the first 2 weeks. Did you make 75% of your gains during the first 2 weeks? No, most of the gains come mid and late in the cycle; the first 2 weeks is just the water and glycogen build up period. So 2 weekers with SD will lead to a huge amount of water and glycogen loading and not enough time to build a large amount of muscle. I am sure some of the weight will stick around for a while but ultimately it's mostly temporary weight.
    I use the term "experts" semi-loosely and subjectively, which is why you see it in quotes. Let's face it, in the strictest professional sense, there are no real "experts" on AAS use for bodybuilding purposes out there. What we do have are a number of knowledgeable people floating around in the community, some with relevant PhDs, personal experience, and a slew of successfully advised clients to reinforce their credibility. You want me to name a few that are known to suggest Tamoxifen over Clomiphene? No thanks, I've played that game before. I name drop, and you can come right back with a criticism of that person's credibility, well-founded or not, we get nowhere because let's face it - you are not an expert and neither are I. This is why much of the AAS community encloses themselves in a realm of subjectivity, often fueled by Confirmation biases operating to protect fragile egos.

    So go ahead and take your clomid, I don't care, it's not my concern. I was just letting some random guy on the internet know that some other random guy on the internet agrees with his decision, and he just may find that other "experts" who he finds credible just might advise the same. Take it for what it's worth.

    Also, before you try to get yourself into a discussion about the 2-on/2-4-off cycle protocol, do us all a favor and actually conduct a little research on it. You say gains are "exaggerated", but I doubt you've read the numerous reports of people gaining and keeping 5-8+ pounds of mass on these cycles. No, I'm not talking about oral-only "pro-hormone" or "designer steroid" cycles. I'm talking about REAL cycles consisting of compounds like Tren Ace, Test Prop, D-bol, etc. Also, as a preemptive refutation to your "the gains are just bloat" criticism, these cycles are typically ran with an AI, and on top of that I am referring to gains that still exist after any accumulated bloat dissipates. One of the advantages of running such a short cycle is that people have found that they can get away with MUCH higher dosages with little-to-no sides than on longer cycles which allows for comparatively, much larger gains within such a short period - and recovery STILL comes rapidly. Not that I would advise someone to take high dosages on their first 2-weeker, but since you can run so many every year you have the opportunity to quickly find out what works best for you via experimentation. Is the 2-weeker the best cycle protocol out there? Nope, no such thing, but it works great for some people.

    Anyway, I'm not going to get into a good-ole-fashioned Nolva vs Clomid pissing match, and neither am I going to bicker with anyone about the 2-weeker. Do what you want, there is enough information out there for people to come to their own conclusions regarding either decision. So go ahead and reply as you will, and I encourage you to do so liberally, as you won't have to worry about me answering back (but hopefully not to the disadvantage of anyone trying to learn from this thread).
  29. Elite Member
    UnrealMachine's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  218 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,083
    Rep Power
    5025

    Reputation

    Well i thought we were talking about oral 2 weekers here as that's what this whole thread is about. Blasting tren, test and Dbol is entirely different and much more effective i'm sure.

    don't take my post too personally bro, i was just looking for reasons for the preference of nolva, because in my reading, it seems that nolva is recommended most on PH boards because somehow nolva is the established standard here; on AAS boards where members are more experienced and attempt cycles with greater shutdown, it seems clomid is much more popular.
    Mostly answered PM's
    Don't post on my profile, I don't read that stuff, PM me instead
    <------ Hard to believe, but I wasn't on any anabolics in the avatar shot
  30. Professional Member
    mooch2321's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    3,835
    Rep Power
    2013

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    Where are the experts saying nolva is better than clomid? For 2 years i used nolva because that's what is preached about on PH-related forums, and for me clomid is far superior without any doubt, and with a compound like Superdrol the clomid only makes more sense.

    Me and mooch may not be "experts" but at least we have tried both

    Concerning 2 week cycles, the biggest advantage is being able to do 2 on and 2 off, but really the gains in any 2 week cycle are exaggerated. Say you run a SD 4 weeker and gain 16 pounds, 12 of them occurring in the first 2 weeks. Did you make 75% of your gains during the first 2 weeks? No, most of the gains come mid and late in the cycle; the first 2 weeks is just the water and glycogen build up period. So 2 weekers with SD will lead to a huge amount of water and glycogen loading and not enough time to build a large amount of muscle. I am sure some of the weight will stick around for a while but ultimately it's mostly temporary weight.

    speak for yourself man..... all hail THE MOOCH. the original internet guru, phd in broscience
  31. Elite Member
    UnrealMachine's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  218 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    6,083
    Rep Power
    5025

    Reputation

    Mooch you don't wanna sell yourself as an expert, your inbox will fill up with 7 pm's a day and you'll get tired of answering all of them
    Mostly answered PM's
    Don't post on my profile, I don't read that stuff, PM me instead
    <------ Hard to believe, but I wasn't on any anabolics in the avatar shot
  32. Professional Member
    mooch2321's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    3,835
    Rep Power
    2013

    Reputation

    sigh.....already am....i tell em all the same thing. DAT DERE CELLTECH!
  33. Professional Member
    mooch2321's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    3,835
    Rep Power
    2013

    Reputation

    celltech has been proven to cure cancer 50% of the time, every time
  34. New Member
    ChrisSanderso's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    383
    Rep Power
    271

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Libertarian View Post
    I use the term "experts" semi-loosely and subjectively, which is why you see it in quotes. Let's face it, in the strictest professional sense, there are no real "experts" on AAS use for bodybuilding purposes out there. What we do have are a number of knowledgeable people floating around in the community, some with relevant PhDs, personal experience, and a slew of successfully advised clients to reinforce their credibility. You want me to name a few that are known to suggest Tamoxifen over Clomiphene? No thanks, I've played that game before. I name drop, and you can come right back with a criticism of that person's credibility, well-founded or not, we get nowhere because let's face it - you are not an expert and neither are I. This is why much of the AAS community encloses themselves in a realm of subjectivity, often fueled by Confirmation biases operating to protect fragile egos.

    So go ahead and take your clomid, I don't care, it's not my concern. I was just letting some random guy on the internet know that some other random guy on the internet agrees with his decision, and he just may find that other "experts" who he finds credible just might advise the same. Take it for what it's worth.

    Also, before you try to get yourself into a discussion about the 2-on/2-4-off cycle protocol, do us all a favor and actually conduct a little research on it. You say gains are "exaggerated", but I doubt you've read the numerous reports of people gaining and keeping 5-8+ pounds of mass on these cycles. No, I'm not talking about oral-only "pro-hormone" or "designer steroid" cycles. I'm talking about REAL cycles consisting of compounds like Tren Ace, Test Prop, D-bol, etc. Also, as a preemptive refutation to your "the gains are just bloat" criticism, these cycles are typically ran with an AI, and on top of that I am referring to gains that still exist after any accumulated bloat dissipates. One of the advantages of running such a short cycle is that people have found that they can get away with MUCH higher dosages with little-to-no sides than on longer cycles which allows for comparatively, much larger gains within such a short period - and recovery STILL comes rapidly. Not that I would advise someone to take high dosages on their first 2-weeker, but since you can run so many every year you have the opportunity to quickly find out what works best for you via experimentation. Is the 2-weeker the best cycle protocol out there? Nope, no such thing, but it works great for some people.

    Anyway, I'm not going to get into a good-ole-fashioned Nolva vs Clomid pissing match, and neither am I going to bicker with anyone about the 2-weeker. Do what you want, there is enough information out there for people to come to their own conclusions regarding either decision. So go ahead and reply as you will, and I encourage you to do so liberally, as you won't have to worry about me answering back (but hopefully not to the disadvantage of anyone trying to learn from this thread).
    Very well said.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Short M-Drol cycle
    By Jones1982 in forum Post Cycle Therapy
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-25-2010, 01:14 AM
  2. short prop cycle
    By quakebks in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 03-01-2010, 07:56 AM
  3. M-Drol pulsing and Test prop short a$$ cycle
    By ChrisSanderso in forum Cycle Info
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-20-2010, 04:10 AM
  4. 3rd cycle critique:Drol/Test enan/Prop/Tren ace
    By hawaiianstunna in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-04-2006, 08:27 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in