Retention rates: What did you gain and what did you keep?

  1. Question Retention rates: What did you gain and what did you keep?


    This aspect of cycling fascinates me, especially as I just finished my first cycle and Iíve already lost half of my gains within one week of PCT.

    The purpose of this thread is to simply post your cycle (compound/product and length, dosage: Every Day/Pulsed), your workout style e.g. 4 day split, 5x5 etc, diet e.g. 4000+ cals, your gains, your pct and what you managed to keep by the end of pct.

    If enough people do this I think it will be some interesting data. Perhaps there are certain compounds that have a high retention rate, maybe there is a particular pct protocol that really works. Maybe there isnít a pattern at all. Does everyone simply lose everything?

    Iíll get the ball rolling.

    Cycle: Primordial Performance 1T-Tren (& Sustain Alpha), 6 weeks, ED
    W/O: 4 day split
    Diet: ~5000+ clean
    Gains: 12lbs
    PCT: PP TRS (Sustain Alpha, Tocco8, Endo amp), Nolvadex 10mg ED, AppNutt Alpha-X
    Retained: TBC (3 weeks of pct left, currently down 6lbs)
    Notes: Diet and workout remained constant.

    Your turn!


  2. Nothing? I thought there would be interest in this...
  3. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    The problem is everyone is so unique, and each cycle, diet, workout scheme etc so different that you are always comparing apples to oranges.
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  4. tren/hdrol 6 weeker. t-911, clomid, 2 gh boosters for PCT. gained 18 pounds, kept 17. kept all my strength too.

    as easy said though, its how you train, how you eat, and how solid your PCT is to get anything out of it.

  5. Cyle: Epistane, 4 week, 20/30/40/40
    W/0: 5 Day split
    Diet: clean as much as i could fit in my stomach. 6 meals a day.
    Gains: 140-162 (cut down really low so gains exaggerated) 22 lbs.
    PCT: Novedex XT (my first cycle ever, i was stupid)
    Retained: 18 lbs. (158)


    Cyle: Dymethazine, 4 week, 15/30/30/45
    W/0: 5 Day split
    Diet: clean as much as i could fit in my stomach. 6 meals a day.
    Gains: 160-167; 7 lbs.
    PCT: Reversitol, Testabolan V2, some anti-e
    Retained: 2 lbs. (162)
    Notes: i dont think this is like superdrol. period.

  6. bulks only

    1) pplex 30/30/30 gained 10 kept ~5, then started to cut, didn't keep much in the long run
    2) SD 10/20/20/30 gained 15 kept 9, but had to eat so much i increased fat, maybe 5 pounds lbm gained
    3) SD 10/20/20/30 followed by bunk TestE followed by 6 weeks of test prop. Gained 15 but also gained like 2% bodyfat so the LBM was pretty minimal, started cutting after that...

    I haven't kept much! LOL...
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    bulks only

    1) pplex 30/30/30 gained 10 kept ~5, then started to cut, didn't keep much in the long run
    2) SD 10/20/20/30 gained 15 kept 9, but had to eat so much i increased fat, maybe 5 pounds lbm gained
    3) SD 10/20/20/30 followed by bunk TestE followed by 6 weeks of test prop. Gained 15 but also gained like 2% bodyfat so the LBM was pretty minimal, started cutting after that...

    I haven't kept much! LOL...
    so are you more strictly a recomp kinda roider now? i really couldnt see myself ever bulking again if i had to deal with that busshh

  8. Cycle: Epi, 20/30/30/40, ED
    W/O: 4 day split; push/pull
    Diet: 4K cals/day; 1.5gms prot/lb; lots of pizza and mcdonalds
    Gains: 10lbs
    PCT: Clomid 50 x 3 days, 25 x 2 weeks; Stoked ED x 4 wks; Activate Xtreme ED x 4 wks starting at PCT day 14.
    Retained: All, until i got the flu after the 4th week and lost 9lbs! dammit.
    Notes: Diet and workout remained constant as well.

    i didnt lose a bit, i just hope my luck continues w/ other cycles
  9. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    bulks only

    1) pplex 30/30/30 gained 10 kept ~5, then started to cut, didn't keep much in the long run
    2) SD 10/20/20/30 gained 15 kept 9, but had to eat so much i increased fat, maybe 5 pounds lbm gained
    3) SD 10/20/20/30 followed by bunk TestE followed by 6 weeks of test prop. Gained 15 but also gained like 2% bodyfat so the LBM was pretty minimal, started cutting after that...

    I haven't kept much! LOL...
    pretty well the normal story. if it wasn't, there'd be a pile of 300+ pound guys here
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  10. Definitely harder for me to gain when i've been starting from between 210 and 240 pounds on those various bulks. Now if i were 170 i'd gain 25 pounds on a cycle or something, just because there's so much untapped headroom.
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  11. Interesting stuff, reps given for those who contributed. Keep it coming!

    Easy; I hear what you are saying about the 300+ lbs guys. My weight loss has stopped so it looks like I'll retain 50% of my first cycle.

  12. Phera-Plex by CEL.
    Gained: 10 lbs.
    Retained: 10 lbs.
    Cycle: 20/20/30/30/30
    Calories: 4,500
    Workout: 3x a week
    PCT: Nolvadex 20/20/20/20
    Inhibit-E. 0/ 0/ 3/ 2/ 1
    Neovar as directed
    ZMA as directed

  13. Cycle: H-Drol - 50/75/100/125/150/150
    PCT: Nolvadex - 20/20/10/10, Formex 2/2/1/1, PCT Assist 0/0/4/4/4/4/4/4
    Starting weight: 192
    Ending weight: 207
    Starting bf%: roughly 14%
    Ending bf%: I'm assuming 16%, because when I was at 200lbs. I had it tested and I was 15%
    Side-Effects: None, no change in libido either. Just a heavier hanging fella.

    Conclusion:
    I started losing strength, while not losing weight, just my first week into PCT. Then, by the 3rd week, after losing most of my strength gains, I felt fat and bloated and wanted to cut down. So, I basically gave up trying to retain any gains by my 3rd-4th week into PCT, and started cutting down for my recomp I plan on doing in late September - early October.

  14. I finished a 4 week Havoc cycle this spring with very poor PCT.
    Beginning Weight: 162lbs
    Ending Weight: 180lbs
    Weight Retained: 177lbs
    I'm actually at about 172lbs right now, but I've cut some bodyfat. Arms went from 14.5" to 15.5". After PCT, a few weeks at maintenance, and about a month dieting, they are still at 15.25". I'm hoping to hit 16+" with my next p-plex/epi cycle.
  15. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Jotan View Post
    Interesting stuff, reps given for those who contributed. Keep it coming!

    Easy; I hear what you are saying about the 300+ lbs guys. My weight loss has stopped so it looks like I'll retain 50% of my first cycle.
    its funny, I recall one guy that if you started with his initial weight, and added up gains each cycle, he would have made it to almost 400 if he kept any. but he'd go from 185-200~210 then between pct and wait time to next cycle he'd be back at 185 again, then run another cycle. Can't recall who it was, but he had like 6 cycles like that.
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  16. I think it's really hard to add a lot & keep a lot unless A) you're physique isn't very developed B) freak genetics & good AAS response.

    The biggest effect my cycles have had on my physique is helping me stay lean while maintaining a large amount of LBM, and have also helped with my muscle density and that look of "muscle maturity."
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  17. phera/tren
    8 weeks
    gained 18 lbs
    kept about 14 of it.

  18. I gained 6 lbs of muscle from a cycle of "The One" up to 176 lbs. I'm about a week into my pct and down to 172, strength is definately down too. One thing I noticed is that the second day into pct I could sleep again, the whole time I was on TO I could not sleep more than 2 hours straight, tossed and turned all night, I was miserable, other than that no sides.

  19. Wonder how much mass and weight I'll gain from my M-drol cycle doing 5/3/1 work out.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    its funny, I recall one guy that if you started with his initial weight, and added up gains each cycle, he would have made it to almost 400 if he kept any. but he'd go from 185-200~210 then between pct and wait time to next cycle he'd be back at 185 again, then run another cycle. Can't recall who it was, but he had like 6 cycles like that.
    You have to wonder why. Looking at the limited data here, most people retain some gains, some retain none.

    Quote Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
    I think it's really hard to add a lot & keep a lot unless A) you're physique isn't very developed B) freak genetics & good AAS response.

    The biggest effect my cycles have had on my physique is helping me stay lean while maintaining a large amount of LBM, and have also helped with my muscle density and that look of "muscle maturity."
    Both are good points.

    I think there is a third factor. I have a theory about losses/shut down.

    After 6 weeks my balls were like grapes. I think I lost so much in the first week becaue my body wasn't producing test.

    I think if people took a small amount of hcg on cycle you'd avoid shutdown and recover much quicker. Easy to keep the motor running than start it up...

    I'm going to do an injectable cycle of EQ and have hcg on cycle. I bet I retain more that way.

  21. very intresting thread, i`m going to follow this one. Currently on my very first cycle of a PH, E-stane 4 weeks at 20-30-30-30/40

  22. ^Try maybe 5 weeks.

    this is very interesting. If most people loose a substantial amount of their gains on their 1st week of pct then it prob is cuz of a low test lvl like stated above. Then wouldn't it be smarter to use a natty test booster on week one and slowly taper down to week 6 of pct?

    Maybe there needs to be an AI used earlier than week 3 in order to surpress E sooner and taper down while a Serm and Test booster raises your bodies natural test lvls?

    In short ur body would need to raise natty Test lvls as fast as possible. And control how fast and how high Estrogen lvls can come back.

    And a Cort control would help with that bloating feel.

    ^^^would this work? Or it only sounds good in theory?

  23. I'm at the end of my first week of PCT and continuing to gain. The true test will be how much I weigh a couple of weeks after PCT.

    But here's my results so far:

    Begining weight: 225
    Current weight: 235

    Cylce:
    S-Drol -10/20/20
    Liver Protect
    Very high carbs - high protein - around 8-9 meals per day. Kept it clean with a cheat day per week.

    PCT:
    Nolva - 20/10/10/10 (I was going to run 20 all the way but it was too much)
    Revolution PCT- (0/4/4/4) - I just added this and have been feeling really good.

    PCT Revolution Proprietary Blend 1030mg:

    Testosterone Amplification Blend 380mg:
    Tribulus Terrestris, Fenugreek Extract, 6, 17 keto etiocholeva-3-ol 3, 17 ketoetiochol-triene, Grape Seed Extract, Eurycoma Longifolia

    Liver Enzyme Regulation Matrix 250mg:
    NAC (n-Acetyl Cysteine), Milk Thistle (80% Silymarin)

    Prostate Shield 140mg:
    Stinging Nettle, Saw Palmetto Berry Extract, Lycopene, Selenium

    Cardiovascular Support 244mg:
    Red Yeast Rice, Niacin (Flush Free), CoQ10

    I'll try to remember to update in a few weeks.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Jotan View Post
    I'm going to do an injectable cycle of EQ and have hcg on cycle. I bet I retain more that way.
    EQ is known to give maintainable gains, so in theory you should keep most...
  25. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Jotan View Post
    I'm going to do an injectable cycle of EQ and have hcg on cycle. I bet I retain more that way.
    see the difference with that vs an oral cycle is gains in weeks. On RQ you'll expect to gain 15lbs over 12 weeks, gaining 15 in 4 weeks on orals is likely to be less maintainable anyhow because its so quick a jump
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