M1T: 2 on 2 off

[supersoldier]

Here's my take on 2 on 2 off. It will be easier on the liver then say 4 or 6 weeks straight. It will not be any easier on the HPTA to do 2 weeks on, 2 off, and 2 more on, than a 6 week straight cycle. Anyone who thinks that you can expect HPTA recovery in 2 weeks off from a 2 week M1T cycle, even with PCT, is fooling themself. A smart approach is to use a high dose of 4AD or testosterone for however long, say 6 weeks, and M1T at 2 weeks on, 2 off, 2 on again. Or even 10 weeks of 4AD/test with 3 "on M1T" cycles. It would probably be even better to have your last 2 weeks only on 4AD. 8 Weeks 4AD/test, 2 on 2 off M1T and weeks 7-8 would be off. Then do PCT with at least as much time off as on. This would be much easier to keep gains, and avoid the up and down week by week swing with your hormones, also save money on ancillaries. Just my honest opinion.

 

[jweave23]

I think this is great advice*, M1T noobs listen up!


* and this is coming from a guy whose first M1T cycle was a 2on/2off/2on of 20mg M1T only! I liked that cycle, but would not repeat it nor recommend it without an aromitzing compound.

 

[E-Swift]

I disagree. People have no idea what being "shut down" means. Being shut down doesn't mean having your LH production inhibited. It means your entire HPTA stops producing LHRH and GnRH so your testes cannot produce testosterone. Being on anabolics after a few days will decrease the LHRH output. This is your body simply counter-balancing the new hormones in your system. Only after two weeks does your system enter a deeper inhibition; your pituitary becomes inhibited. It is considerably more difficult to recover from a 3 week cycle than a 2 weeker. So, if you're going past two weeks, you might as well go six if you're not experiencing bad sides.

I see no problem with doing two week cycles on and off with proper PCT. Actually, I'd trim off a day and use a 13 day cycle. If you are worried you can use HCG while on. It should be noted that HPTA issues should be considered amongst other like blood pressure, lipid profile, etc. Personally, I wouldn't do more than (3) consecutive two-weekers on/off without 6 weeks off at the end.

 

[Matthew D]

E-swift what do you base this information on? Just wondering

 

[MarcusG]

I asked in another thread and he replied:
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?p=106190#post106190

 

[2gcorey]

i'll also say that m1t is VERY potent. moreso then other methyl's (prohormones) from what i've seen. yes i had bloodwork done. i will NOT mix m1t with ANY other methyl from what i saw. i don't want to go into detail, but i do believe people have no clue how potent m1t really is.

 

[MarcusG]

I disagree. People have no idea what being "shut down" means. Being shut down doesn't mean having your LH production inhibited. It means your entire HPTA stops producing LHRH and GnRH so your testes cannot produce testosterone. Being on anabolics after a few days will decrease the LHRH output. This is your body simply counter-balancing the new hormones in your system. Only after two weeks does your system enter a deeper inhibition; your pituitary becomes inhibited. It is considerably more difficult to recover from a 3 week cycle than a 2 weeker. So, if you're going past two weeks, you might as well go six if you're not experiencing bad sides.

I see no problem with doing two week cycles on and off with proper PCT. Actually, I'd trim off a day and use a 13 day cycle. If you are worried you can use HCG while on. It should be noted that HPTA issues should be considered amongst other like blood pressure, lipid profile, etc. Personally, I wouldn't do more than (3) consecutive two-weekers on/off without 6 weeks off at the end.

I still don't understand how your 'mild'/'deeper inhibition makes sense with Supersoldiers real world data.

 

[WATERLOGGED]

i agree with 2Gcory i experimented with 2 methyls, and will never do it again and wouldnt advise anyone to try it,"because of test results and kidney pains most likely from toxicity being filtered out.

 

[max silver]

I think my next cycle might just be a 6 week bulker, I'm an odd case who's only cycled while bulking for two weeks time (freaked out due to nipples getting kinda puffy) but I've run many two week cycles cutting, with a two on two off approach and have decided that I don't really care for that route. After a two week run of M1T I felt fine for the next two weeks, and seemed to fully recover within that span of time off. (I ran nolva at 40mg/day for the two weekss) However upon running a concurrent two week cycle I felt suppressed for a good 4 or 5 weeks after that, and since I was cutting those 4 weeks were basically spent spinning my wheels, making little to no postive progress, where I lost more lean mass than fat mass.

I don't have bloodwork results to verify my claims, but based on my own experience the 2 on 2 off approach with something as strong as a methylated steroid isn't optimal.

 

[E-Swift]

I still don't understand how your 'mild'/'deeper inhibition makes sense with Supersoldiers real world data.

What are you talking about? The mild inhibition is during the first two weeks. After that, the pituitary shuts down. This is the deeper inhibition. What real world data did supersoldier provide?

 

[supersoldier]

What are you talking about? The mild inhibition is during the first two weeks. After that, the pituitary shuts down. This is the deeper inhibition. What real world data did supersoldier provide?

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12132

 

[Cogar]

Well, I haven't embarrassed myself in a day or so, so let me ask a dumb question. For a short (4-week) cycle, how about a 4-AD or 1-T/4-AD transdermal for the full 4 weeks and adding M 1-T during the middle two weeks?

Additionally, I noticed that supersoldier advises avoiding M 1-T at the end of a cycle. Does this "tapering" at the end of the cycle help recovery or what? I would appreciate anyone's constructive comments.

 

[supersoldier]

Well, I haven't embarrassed myself in a day or so, so let me ask a dumb question. For a short (4-week) cycle, how about a 4-AD or 1-T/4-AD transdermal for the full 4 weeks and adding M 1-T during the middle two weeks?

This looks good.

Additionally, I noticed that supersoldier advises avoiding M 1-T at the end of a cycle. Does this "tapering" at the end of the cycle help recovery or what? I would appreciate anyone's constructive comments.

I don't think it helps actual HPTA recovery, I just think that the body would have an easier time retaining muscle if it is still in an hyper-anabolic state for a period of time after coming off the M1T, as opposed to going from M1T+4AD+whatever straight to PCT.

 

[Cogar]

Thank you supersoldier.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

It is considerably more difficult to recover from a 3 week cycle than a 2 weeker. So, if you're going past two weeks, you might as well go six if you're not experiencing bad sides.

I.

Wrong. LH actually comes back rather quickly in all cycles. Its the lack of response of the Leydig cells to LH pulses that delay recovery. This is also why HCG is so beneficiual during a cycle because it basically keeps them primed and ready to respond to natural LH pulses when the cycle has ended.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I disagree. People have no idea what being "shut down" means. Being shut down doesn't mean having your LH production inhibited. It means your entire HPTA stops producing LHRH and GnRH so your testes cannot produce testosterone. .

Umm....the reason LH levels drop rapidly is because the lack of GnRH being produced. This can happen within days depedning on the substance.

 

[supersoldier]

Umm....the reason LH levels drop rapidly is because the lack of GnRH being produced. This can happen within days depedning on the substance.

Thanks Bobo , that's the second time he tried calling me out on this issue.

 

[E-Swift]

Ok, if you guys are so smart, explain to me how I, and other people, use 2 week cycles of m1t and don't lose their gains. I didn't use pct and didn't lose weight or strength. In fact, the 3 weeks since, my bench is up 10lbs. My point is that your HPTA function rebounds very quickly after a minimal cycle.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Your HPTA does rebound quickly on any cycle, testosterone doesn't. Like I already told you before and as numerous test results here and also with SWALE, LH levels rebound quite fast but testosterone levels do not. Blood tests don't lie. If you havne't lost anything, thats great. Your not the template for everyone too follow and your lack of scientific proof definetly doesn't give you the right to come here and post things as they were fact.

I don't know where you get "other people" from. We have people here that have lost almost all their gains with PCT along with people that have lost nothing with PCT. It varies from person to person on how their body rebounds. Your statements are incorrect and lack any scientific proof. THey are based on your experience with no blood tests at all. You could have your strenght the same, gains the same, and libido the same, but STILL have low levels of testosterone. It happens everyday and is the reason HRT exists.

 

[maggmaster]

It all comes down to the same thing everyones different. However if you know that their are some people who have problems recovering and you spend your money and compromise(possibly) your health to run a cycle why wouldnt you spend the extra money and time doing a proper pct? Everyone ma not have to but why take the risk that you are in the minority? The point is that it is mor elikely that you will recover properly doing proper PCT and in my opinion people still dont do as much as they should for it. Anti-cortisol supps are far more important than people realize in maintaining gains and most people dont use them( I know that you use 7-keto bobo so I am not talking to you) My pint is take all precautions possible to absolutely maximize your chances of keeping everything you fought for on your cycle.

 

[MarcusG]

Bobo is right, the Bhassin et al study (which 60 men were administered different doses of test for about 12 weeks) showed that men had very little change in mood, cognitive tests, libido/function, strength even with abnormally low levels of testosterone. Of course the men with low test levels gain nothing but fat.

 

[ex_banana-eater]

Wrong. LH actually comes back rather quickly in all cycles. Its the lack of response of the Leydig cells to LH pulses that delay recovery. QUOTE]

Yup