2 on 4 off epi cycles

[Gonzogo]

I thought about using
Epi ~30mg 2 weeks
after that 20 mg Nolva or 50mg Clomid for 3-5 days as pct (hpta suppression should be really minimal)
off ~4 weeks
Repeat cycle 6 times/year.

Any thoughts/experiences?

 

[TBULL]

sounds interesting...id like to know if the nolva or clomid is really necessary

 

[Ju1cedUp]

2 weeks of epi may not get much of a result, then the reuse of it will get worse results each time..

i'd say just stick to the 3 cycle/year, 4 week on method. it works rather good

 

[rubberring]

My opinion... BAD idea. It's a recipe for gyno, for sure. You'll constantly be suppressing/manipulating estrogen. I don't care what anyone says, epi products do have anti-estrogen effects, and then four weeks of SERMs... eventually you'll face a nasty estrogen rebound. There's a reason people starting complaining about gyno after multiple cycles of epi products... myself included.

My $0.02

 

[UnrealMachine]

2 weeks isn't very long, that's about how long it takes for the compound to fully kick in right?

8 week pulse, 8 weeks off, 8 week pulse, 12 weeks off, try that, 9 months and pulsing Epi for 4 of them.

 

[Ju1cedUp]

2 weeks isn't very long, that's about how long it takes for the compound to fully kick in right?

8 week pulse, 8 weeks off, 8 week pulse, 12 weeks off, try that, 9 months and pulsing Epi for 4 of them.

always got good ideas man.

 

[Gonzogo]

My thought was the experience of many people, me included (with dehydromethyltestosterone/Oral Turinabol), that the homoestasis starts to work after ~ 2 weeks and gains get fewer and fewer after that time
plus hpta suppresion should be ~ zero
plus liver toxicity should be minimal
...

I just was thinking of a legit way to get small gains all year round without causing to much damage.

rubberring do you have references to support your opinion that SERMs have a negative feedback mechanism, which can cause gyno? I know some long term resaerch with clomid/nolva with healthy men without reported major problems. As far as I know, that should not happen with SERMs but I don't know what happens with thinks like Epistane...

 

[mooch2321]

how about 6 months of epi at 10 mgs dosed 1 hour before a morning workout? run liver sups in the afternoon and evening and get frequent bloodwork done....minimal suppression, minimal hepatoxicity, more gains than natty

 

[rubberring]

rubberring do you have references to support your opinion that SERMs have a negative feedback mechanism, which can cause gyno? I know some long term resaerch with clomid/nolva with healthy men without reported major problems. As far as I know, that should not happen with SERMs but I don't know what happens with thinks like Epistane...

All I know is that after my third cycle of Epistane/Havoc within roughly an 18-month period, I developed gyno (yes, hard and sensitive lumps) during PCT. I soon realized I wasn't the only one experiencing it after multiple cycles of this specific compound. It's obvious when you run epi that it has anti-estrogen-like effects. In fact, some IBE reps more or less marketed it as a gyno cure in the beginning. After it had been out for a while, reports of rebound gyno started showing up on the forums.

My hypothesis is that epi's anti-estrogen effects couple with being on an actual SERM and/or AI in PCT, leads to manipulating estrogen in the body for an extended, and counterproductive, period of time. Yeah, it's pretty much my version of bro-science, but I think there's at least some validity to it.

Just my opinion, but if you run the 2 on/4 off cycle six times in one year, along with a 3-5 day PCT every time like you proposed... that's messing with your estrogen for about 16 weeks out of the year. Your call, but I think you'll have issues, and trust me... turning to letrozole is not something you want to be faced with. Sucks big time.

Either way, good luck.

 

[TBULL]

how about 6 months of epi at 10 mgs dosed 1 hour before a morning workout? run liver sups in the afternoon and evening and get frequent bloodwork done....minimal suppression, minimal hepatoxicity, more gains than natty

i would like to do this if gains were really possible..what realistically would a person expect from that? fat loss? muscle gain? What would 10 mg do to joints in that time?

 

[mooch2321]

be similar to morning dbol.....help you maintain gains after a cycle or bridge into another...or you could do it by itself....your probably not going to get hyooge over night...but you would see better results than being natty....as for the joint thing....everyone is different...

 

[TBULL]

what about a preload? any reason to load cycle support for 10mg a day or jut start it with the epi? would it be every day even on non gym days?

 

[mooch2321]

i did this for about 10 weeks after my last cycle....i dosed epi in the morning and would work out about an hour later....took my liver supps at night....i took it every day....its not a pulse cycle....taken in the morning pre-workout you should get some very good effects...and with the half life of epi being only six hours you should not get suppressed

 

[Gonzogo]

I can't work out in the morning- it is every time a disaster. No power, no motivation, no weight. I get awake in the evening and than the 10mg epi cycle should be suboptimal because the biggest natural test production is in the morning and the suppresion should be bigger- but I don't know how good this idea is supported by science.
IMO 10mg dbol/day is a bad idea in long term view if you do not want to suppress hpta...

 

[mooch2321]

huh? im getting confused reading that ramble! if your saying morning dbol is a bad idea because its suppressive you should talk to the millions of guys who have done it and tell them they were wrong

 

[TBULL]

what kind of pct would would a person run for this light but long cycle?

 

[mooch2321]

depends on how your bloodwork somes back....i wouldnt recomend this unless you were willing to get blood work done a few times during the cycle....but id definately have some clomid or tor on hand