Some PCT (and cycle) Thoughts............
02-11-2004 10:34 AM
Some PCT (and cycle) Thoughts............
I concluded an 8 week transdermal of 1-test and 4-AD back near the end of January. Rather than focusing on my results which were good, I'd like to pass along some PCT thoughts as I'm now right in the middle of that phase.
PCT is consisting of:
A. 40mg of Nolva - weeks 1-2, and 20mg weeks 3-4:
B. HCG, 3000 iu's day 1; 3000 iu's day 6 ; 1500 iu's day 11 ; 1500 iu's day 16.
C. 7-keto, tablet form 300mg a day.
D. 5-HTP, tablet form 200-300 mg a day.
1. What a DIFFERENCE the HCG makes in terms of how I feel! Much MUCH better. I hadn't used HCG since my AS days back in the mid 80's. Initially there was no PCT then, then HCG came into vogue. So I've never used it in conjunction with Nolva. I actually feel better on HCG than I did during the PH cycle. I have no doubts now that I was shut down pretty hard compared with other PH cycles, and this has been a godsend. Really great for one's love life, also
2. I've never had problems with roid rage, over aggression, etc. But on 40 mg a day of Nolva, I am a TRULY WRETCHED BITCH. I normally am a laid back type "B" personality. The 1 scuffle I ever had with the great Mods here on am.com occurred during a PCT, and I was frankly, an emotional woman. I can only say that when I'm on the stuff, my mood is FOUL. Either depressed, REALLY PISSED or both at once. I can't stand being around myself even, it's awful. And even though I know it's the Nolva causing it, it doesn't help knowing that. I've never screamed at my kids the way I have with PCT, my wife can't even stand me. BUT The 5-HTP has really helped me a LOT this time. I initially bought some back on my last transdermal to try to counter the 1-test lethargy, which it did not. BUT after my 5th day of Nolva this time, and increasing wretchedness, I thought I'd give it a try. I took too much at first because while it mellowed me out, it also made me too sleepy and a bit lazy. But at the dosage indicated above, it works really REALLY well for me. And if anyone else becomes a homicidal/suicidal maniac PCT, I'd highly encourage you give it a try.
3. I'm all done with 1-test products, period. While it may be decently anabolic, the combination of the Lethargy that comes with it, and the nose dive one's Lipid Profile suffers (Supersoldier's Thread) is just not worth it. In the future, if I am going to continue with Androgens, I'll either pin 4-AD or just cypionate itself. I'm not sure I want to cross the line with class 3 yet so......
4. So far, my bodyweight and strength are holding their peak at 18 days PCT now. I believe the HCG is largely responsible, but I'm also hoping Bobo's advice about controlling cortisol by taking 7-keto (he actually advocated Avant's FL7 product) is also contributing. Time will tell.
Good luck, Be Well
02-11-2004 10:50 AM
02-11-2004 11:07 AM
as always excellant attention to detail PC1.
Good luck with the rest of your PCT.
03-05-2004 09:48 PM
Just a quick update here guys...................
I'm now 5 weeks post cycle. I've not lost 1 lb of body weight, although I know composition is slightly less lean. I have not lost even 1 rep on ANY exercise. It's more of a struggle, but not 1 rep lost. This astonishes me frankly. I've never experienced this before.
The major differences this time are both the HCG and the 7-oxo, although I've also included ZMA at times and some tribulus.
In comparison with other cycles, it's apparent to me that even though the Nolva works well at kicking my endo test back on, it takes several weeks. And during that time, I undoubtedly was producing about zero endo test, and was catabolic. The HCG alleviated that zero production period altogether.
I know the 7-oxo has also been a major contributor. What really amazes me is that 3 weeks ago I started a new high level professional job. Fairly stressful, and ordinarily that alone would cause me to drop a few pounds of body weight and lose a bit off my lifts.
REPEAT: Not 1 rep lost from any exercise guys.
Not only that, I am MUCH stronger than I was even last Fall. A couple of examples of my "natural" weights:
Last Fall .............................. ................ Now
Bench 225 x 13-14 ........................ 255 x 10-11
Seated Military 185 x 7-8 ........................ 205 x 10 !
Biceps Curls 115 x 12-13 .................... 135 x 10-11
Squatts 205 x 10-12 ................... 255 x 10
Squatts should be better relative to my other lifts, but I've only had the equipment to do them for about a year and a half now, so they're still behind relatively speaking.
Personally, I feel that for a 44 year old guy who's over the hill a bit now, this is good progress. I was never this strong naturally even in my 20's.
I'm going on a bit here because in the past I've been a fairly outspoken critic of the notion that androgens (PH or AS) could give us anything permanantly that we couldn't do naturally. I'm beginning to re-think my opinion here, IF one is very particular about their PCT ..... AND includes HCG in the equation (creatine is a big help also).
I owe a lot to you my brothers on this board. I've learned a great deal from many of you, and really enjoy noodling around, learning about your research, insights and experiences, and a little about your lives as well. I tip my hat to you all.
BTW, I just started a 4 week ILGF-L3 bridge yesterday. I'll be posting results on another thread, but I noticed even this AM just a better overall pump. Since I'm using it as a bridge, I know I won't be putting on huge size or strength gains. I'm looking for quality over quantity. Some of the things I'm curious about before-after:
1. Incremental change in the DIFFERENCE between chest and waist measurement.
2. Change (reduction) in waist measurement.
3. Permanance of gains
I'll keep you posted.
03-05-2004 11:18 PM
7-oxo is great. I think this is a really good product that gets overlooked.
03-06-2004 02:11 AM
Ill bet igf1 is good to you since you are a "Mature" bodybuilder your gh levels are probably lower andthis your natural igf1 levels are lower so igf1 should be cool
03-06-2004 04:13 AM
My past two PCT's havve included creatine, dermal 7-oxo, a bit more cals(like 200 or so), ALA, Nolva, ZMA, and I'll eat like 2 or 3mg of Lorazepam's (generic name for Ativan--for anxiety, etc.) I'll only take the lorazepams whe nI'm REALLY under the gun and frustrated with things. Not only have I kept all gains, but I'm still adding more strength, a little size, etc. Like PC1 said, you can tell its a little bit harder squeezing out those reps, but nonetheless, I'm happy. ***Plus I always have a spotter during PCT.
Another contributing factor, and probably one of the main factors, is that I use IA's 9-day split during PCT and natty time off after that....
03-06-2004 07:47 AM
One other thing I'd like to add to this insofar as training goes................
I've been doing HIT but with a slight modification. After warmup sets, I do 1 heavy HIT style set with good form, but not super strict, and with zero focus really on the negative aspect. My goal on this set the positive side of each movement.....to move heavy weight for reps, period.
Next, I'll drop about 50 pounds, and do a second set really focusing on the negative aspect..... negatives to the count of at least 5 seconds each rep..... painful reps.
I've read several articles about how hypertrophy occurs from the negative portion of each rep.
The reason I split the sets in two like this is because I like to do a set with heavier weight for strength purposes. If I slowed down the negative on the first heavy set, I'd have to drop weight and psychologically I just don't want to.
But I will say this is working very well for me, I end up with a great work out and a great pump. I'd encourage you guys to try it.
03-06-2004 07:55 AM
"Mature" physically, maybe. Mentally, I've been stuck at about 17 for quite awhile now !
Originally Posted by maggmaster
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