Would injectable 4-AD Cypionate be too potent for a M1T/4-AD stack?

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    Would injectable 4-AD Cypionate be too potent for a M1T/4-AD stack?


    It seems to me that if people report good results with an M1T/transdermal 4-AD stack, then an injectable 4-AD would yeild even better results. Unless of course the 4-AD was so potent that it somehow overshadowed the M1T, would that be the case in this situation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Lee
    It seems to me that if people report good results with an M1T/transdermal 4-AD stack, then an injectable 4-AD would yeild even better results. Unless of course the 4-AD was so potent that it somehow overshadowed the M1T, would that be the case in this situation?
    It can't overshadow the M1T, but why trans and IM? Just use IM if you're not afraid to pin.
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    Sorry; "IM" ?
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    Hmmm, I actually hadn't thought about that; after seeing all the positive feedback on M1T/4-AD I was planning on either getting the HP or UL M1T tabs both because they're supposedly so bioavailable and because they're so cheap (60 5 mg tabs for $9.99). When I started looking at the 4-AD though (I knew I didn't want to take it orally) it I saw that it would be around $25 for the transdermal. Tonight though I saw that someone was offering premade injectable 4-AD Cypionate for only $30, so I thought why not? Now that you mention it though, is there a place you know of that sells inexpensive injectable 1-Test? Or are the benefits that one would reap with pin/pin so superior to oral/pin that the price difference would be worth it?

    Edit: Hmmm, 1-Dehydroandrostanolone and 1-Test wouldn't happen to be the same thing would they?
    Last edited by Rock Lee; 02-09-2004 at 03:04 AM.
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    I was asking why you'd pin 4AD and use transdermal 4AD. M1T is only ment to be taken orally. 1-test cyp is supposed to give great results too. M1T and 1-test cyp are completely different in every aspect (dose, effects, sides, ect.).
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    I'm sorry if I worded my first post wrong. I meant I was thinking that if people were getting good results with M1T and a dermal 4-AD then I would get even better results with M1T and injecting 4-AD Cyp. I never meant that I would stack the two. Ah, I need to do some reading up on 1-Test Cyp's effects and sides then.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Lee

    Edit: Hmmm, 1-Dehydroandrostanolone and 1-Test wouldn't happen to be the same thing would they?
    They are the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Lee
    Hmmm, 1-Dehydroandrostanolone and 1-Test wouldn't happen to be the same thing would they?
    I beleive it is DihydroandroSTENolone.

    Greenguy
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    I'm a little confused. Why do people who are stacking 1-Test Cyp with 4-AD Cyp go on 6-8 week cycles while people who go on M1T/4-AD (either oral or transdermal) only go on 2 or 4 week cycles when the latter group is only absorbing about half of what the former group is absorbing?

    BTW there isn't a Methyl-4-AD tablet is there?
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    question
    cyps half life is 16days right...or around there sorry if wrong...
    do what would u do fron load the M1T 10mg ed wks1-how ever long or wait with 2 weeks on the pinned 4-ad for it to kick in then run the M1T
    the wait for the 4-ad to kick in would make more sense to me
    and once i am i am only 17 i know it and i dont touch androgens
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Lee
    I'm a little confused. Why do people who are stacking 1-Test Cyp with 4-AD Cyp go on 6-8 week cycles while people who go on M1T/4-AD (either oral or transdermal) only go on 2 or 4 week cycles when the latter group is only absorbing about half of what the former group is absorbing?

    BTW there isn't a Methyl-4-AD tablet is there?
    Injectable cypionates are generally considered to take longer to "kick in", because of the slower release of the compound. There are varying opinions but most will say it takes at least 2-3 weeks. Ideally IMO you need 8-10 weeks to get the full benefit of cyps. They are also considered less liver toxic than methylated compounds like M-1-T.
    Methylated PH's and steroids are not recommended for long periods because of fear of liver damage.

    Yes there is a M-4AD product on the market.
    Another thing though, I don't think you'll get any recommendations to stack two Methyl compounds.
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    Is there a non-cypionate injectable version of 4-AD (that would be better suited for an M1T stack)? Or if I'm wanting to run an M1T/4-AD stack would I have to settle on a transdermal 4-AD? Actually would it be plausible to pin a low dosage of 4-AD cyp for 2 weeks (or so) and then once it's "kicked in" start the 2-4 week cycle of M1T?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Lee
    Is there a non-cypionate injectable version of 4-AD (that would be better suited for an M1T stack)? Or if I'm wanting to run an M1T/4-AD stack would I have to settle on a transdermal 4-AD? Actually would it be plausible to pin a low dosage of 4-AD cyp for 2 weeks (or so) and then once it's "kicked in" start the 2-4 week cycle of M1T?
    4AD propionate, at the site I pm'd you last night, is faster acting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Lee
    Is there a non-cypionate injectable version of 4-AD (that would be better suited for an M1T stack)? Or if I'm wanting to run an M1T/4-AD stack would I have to settle on a transdermal 4-AD? Actually would it be plausible to pin a low dosage of 4-AD cyp for 2 weeks (or so) and then once it's "kicked in" start the 2-4 week cycle of M1T?
    Yes, 4ad Prop is available. I am on it now, 1125mg per week, with 20mg M1,4ad in am and 5mg M1T in pm.

    Greenguy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Lee
    Is there a non-cypionate injectable version of 4-AD (that would be better suited for an M1T stack)? Or if I'm wanting to run an M1T/4-AD stack would I have to settle on a transdermal 4-AD? Actually would it be plausible to pin a low dosage of 4-AD cyp for 2 weeks (or so) and then once it's "kicked in" start the 2-4 week cycle of M1T?
    You can also pin 4-AD base, but you're looking at ED injections.

    I personally would opt for "kick starting" the cycle w/ M-1-T, and start the 4-AD at the same time.
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    that is the only reason why i dont like the base, ed injects for 8 weeks get old quick. and i love short esters.
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    Is pinning AAS/PHs more painful than pinning insulin (which I'm used to)? Does the actual "pain" (or discomfort- whatever you want to call it) come from the physical needle going in or is there an immediate sensation that occurs when the substance enters your blood stream?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Lee
    Is pinning AAS/PHs more painful than pinning insulin (which I'm used to)? Does the actual "pain" (or discomfort- whatever you want to call it) come from the physical needle going in or is there an immediate sensation that occurs when the substance enters your blood stream?
    Here is my take as a newbie (just started 2 weeks ago).

    Yes, its more painful, but only very slightly. The needle is thicker (25g vs 29-30g), and you are going deep into the muscle vs just below skin into fat.

    Also, you are injecting a much larger volume of a thicker substance, and you need to inject slowly, say 15-30 seconds per ml. And it requires considerable pressure on the plunger compared to insulin.

    All in all, its not really a big deal. I consider it "painless". The jab into the muscle is painless (unless you hit nerve which you shouldn't if you are picking the right spot). The discomfort I experience is from having to keep the needle in the muscle for 1-1.5 min, pressing hard to depress plunger while trying not to "wiggle" the needle, which of course will cause problems.

    Its mostly overcoming the mental fear and practice keeping a steady hand.

    Greenguy
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    Properly prepared PH/AAS should be pain free. However there are factors that can increase the amount of pain/soreness you will experience:
    Too much BA
    Improperly prepared (dirty) compounds
    Crystals in the solution
    mg/ml ratio too high - most compounds up to 300 mg/ml should be relatively pain free
    Injecting too much volume in one site
    Injecting too fast
    Moving the needle excessively during injection
    Using too large gauge needle - you should be able to inject most any compound with a 23-25 gauge needle. Some even smaller. Some compounds me be a little slow, but thats ok too.

    And of course, rotate your injection sites.
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    all great info.
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    Also, I would add that the biggest thing to worry about is not pain, but infection and abcess caused by injecting a non-sterile substance into your muscle.

    This was my biggest concern that stopped me from pinning. I was happy to find that Designer Supps stuff seems to be perfectly sterile, and I have had no sign of redness, swelling, etc. after using it 3x week for two weeks.

    Making a sterile solution is not rocket science, but it requires careful attention to detail, and DS is doing it right!

    Greenguy
  

  
 

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