My potential Mdrol cycle and questions, help!

[saigonboi]

I'm 21 yrs old, 5'10", 210lbs, been lifting for a few years.

I've been CONSUMED with research for the past week. Reading articles and forums at home, work, and often staying up to 4 am. I CAN'T REST until I have this settled.

Please give any intelligent and constructive suggestions (please keep suggestions specific and detailed as possible). Also I'd greatly appreciate a link to sources or an explanation of why you're suggesting what you're suggesting.

Also keep in mind the drugs you recommend aren't as easily accessible for me as it might be for you and that I'm broke, cost is important. Be reasonable, I'm asking for help not to make another dead end post. I've read superdrol for dummies and many many other posts but there are still many unanswered questions.

So I'm planning to do a 10/20/20/20 or 20/20/20/20 cycle of Mdrol.
*I know many people suggest 3 week cycle because there are little gains during the 4th week. Does anyone have any testimonial to this or an overwhelming confirmation that this is true?
*2ndly Is it TOO risky to jump to 20mg my first time around? I know people suggest starting out with 10mg to get a feel for it, but my intentions are to go balls to the wall.

My regiment will be 4 or 5 day routines with little or no rest days between each 4-5day cycle depending on how I feel. While on mdrol I want to maximize workouts and gains as much as possible.
*Is it smart workout everyday, of course each muscle group would get 3 days of rest between weekly cycles.

These are the supplements I plan to take:
On Cycle
-Mdrol (10mg in the morning, and 10mg pre-workout)
-Animal Pak
-Fish Oil (With doses of mdrol?)
*I read that it's smart to eat fatty acids or take it with mdrol, or even with olive oil...
-Triple Flex (For joints)
-Super Pump 250
*I've used black powdered, no2 xplode, and other ATP products, I figured I want to maximize my workouts especially on mdrol. Or should I save it for my post cycle because mdrol gives you good pumps? Please give me a reason to not even take this at all because I rather cut this $40 out of the picture.
-University Torrent for post-workout, and for source of creatine
*Is it smart to run this all the way through post cycle because I know you're supposed to cycle creatine... although not vital
-AI Cycle Support
*It seems to have everything needed, CEL makes cycle assist that has the same ingredients except it doesn't have red yeast rice, but is cheaper. Is ryr that vital? Are there any cheaper products?
-ON Gold Standard Whey for protein throughout the day
-ZMA
*There's conflicting material saying that it's not necessary if you're not zinc/magnesium deficient but merely a sleep aid. I've used in the past but nothing dramatic. Input?

Off Cycle pretty much the same supplements except no mdrol of course
Here is my BIGGEST concern, My PCT

-1800mg - 30ml vial of Toremifene citrate
*Wtf does that mean? There's 1800mg does of toremifene in 30 milliliters, dosage input?
*I heard it's new but so far blowing Nolvadex out of the water?
*It took me a while to read between the lines and figure out a place to get it... it's referred to some as IBE, is that place legit? PM me or something please.
-AI Post Cycle Support

Here's where things are complicated for me...
*Should I continue to take cycle support? All those ingredients are suggest to take all the way through a post cycle BUT this stuff doesn't come cheap!!
*Ideally I want to limit the drugs I take for PCT. I HEARD as LEAST have a SERM to cover your bases. But I can't get my hands on any AI, 6oxo, etc. Also what about a cortisol aid? IS IT TRULY Necessary and what products do you suggest?

I gotta goto work but I probably missed a few questions. PLEASE HELP ME OUT

 

[UnrealMachine]

First off for on cycle drop the Superpump250. Steroids give you ridiculous pumps and you don't need any NO products. Also creatine on cycle isn't important.
Use both of those in PCT.

The liquid toremifene should be g2g. The doses are usually 120/90/60/60 or so. Blowing nolva out of the water? That's bull**** my friend. People respond differently to the SERMs and some like Tor a lot but personally I like nolva more than Tor and clomid more than nolva.

You can continue the cycle support into your PCT but consider first if you really NEED it.

I've never run a cortisol blocker or AI in pct... definitely not necessary

 

[henryhavoc]

I can provide answers to your first two questions, as I've ran mdrol successfully before.

Starting your cycle with 10mg is key because it allows your body to get used to the new substance that is entering your system. I gained around 3 to 4lbs on my first week at 10mg.

Three week cycles are ideal at 10/20/20, because at that dose, you use less than half your bottle of mdrol, which allows you to run another cycle later down the road.

If you're still gaining at the end of your third week however, I would advise to continue on with a fourth week at 30mg (since you're over 200lbs).

Keep in mind that you might start getting bad sides on your fourth week, if you do decide to run a fourth. It's best to stop your cycle early than to take permanent damage to your body.

Good luck with your cycle! I know unreal knows a lot about mdrol, so direct your questions towards him if you need anything else.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I'm a Superdrol fanboy

 

[saigonboi]

Haha just got to work and already I'm back on this topic.
First off thank you so much.

So I think I'll take your advice and stick to 10/20/20, and maybe a 4th if I'm still getting gains at the end of 3rd.

Do you think taking it with a good meal with fish oil is sufficient or should I dip it in olive oil?

As for a PCT liquid tor or nolva is good enough by itself? Do you think AI Post Cycle Support is necessary or CEL's Post Cycle Assist?

Also the container says 1800mg - 30ml. Does that mean theres 1800 milligrams of toremifene citrate in a 30 milliliter vial? If so I should take 120mg a day (in 2 split doses of 60mg) for the first week, 90mg for the 2nd, and 60mg for the 3rd?

How can I tell if I need to continue Cycle Support through my PCT as well?

Any input on ZMA (refer to above)?

And the other questions I have above if anyone has any insight on those.

TY

 

[UnrealMachine]

you should still be getting gains in the 3rd week, my strength gains in the 4th week were excellent each time (and probably would have been good in the 5th week too...)

Take it with a fatty meal and you'll be good

A SERM should be the main component of the PCT, it's the most important, anything else you add to that is your own choice.

1800mg in 30mL means that it's 60mg per mL
Yes do that dosing scheme, but take it all at once, before you go to sleep at night

Cycle support in PCT is up to you personally i wouldn't bother, however post cycle is the best time to run the milk thistle if ur concerned about your liver

@ ZMA i dont know

 

[henryhavoc]

I'm a Superdrol fanboy

Superdrol, phera, and most recently tren I read a lot of your posts lol.

ZMA is one of those things where nobody really knows how effective it is, but it won't hurt at all if you throw it in.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Superdrol, phera, and most recently tren I read a lot of your posts lol.

Stalker!

 

[saigonboi]

Ok Spent that past few hours researching more. I was going to do a cutting cycle afterward too with lipodrene (/w edphedra) but this is what I've come up with.

AI cycle support (30days, 2 days before mdrol)
mdrol 10/20/20/20 (28days)

PCT:
liquid tamoxifen citrate at 20mg a day (split or single?)
liquid albuterol
DHEA caps 200/200/100/100
AI post cycle

There's too much conflicting information about toremifene/tamoxifene/clomid so I don't know which is the best for me. Of course I want to retain as much muscle as possible with as little side effects as possible. I hear clomid is best for retaining gains but you go mentral; tamoxifene is very well known and popular and claimed to be the best; toremifene is recent and on a few boards some people claim it's the newer better version of tamoxifene... I don't know what to think.

I'm confused on albuterol forms... I see inhalants and different names than albuterol sulfate. I wanted to pm you two about websites but can't yet so...

 

[UnrealMachine]

My vote is for clomid

i haven't used albuterol

don't mention where you buy your chems

about your cut with lipodrene, be sure you wait a while after PCT before starting, those weeks in and after PCT are sensitive and you're going to have to work hard to retain gains, do not start a cut too quickly.

 

[henryhavoc]

Stalker!

I read more on here than I should :lol5:

 

[henryhavoc]

Anyway, I agree with Unreal when he says to wait a bit after PCT to start the cut cycle. Sounds like you got a good PCT lined up though, which is refreshing to see. Cheers!

 

[saigonboi]

When you were on clomid did you have any mood problems? Weeping? Depression? What was bad about tamoxifene and toremifene that you didn't like? Also how was you guy's acne like while on mdrol?

 

[UnrealMachine]

I had no side effects on clomid, other than the side effects of rapidly rebounding testosterone (worst acne breakout in over a year, almost as horny as on test cycle)

No depression, weeping, mood swings, vision problems whatsoever

I felt recovered faster on clomid than tor/nolva

I did not get acne from Superdrol

 

[saigonboi]

I really appreciate the input...
After days of non-stop research I think I found a plan I'm at peace with.

Mdrol 10/20/20/20
AI's Cycle Support

PCT
Toremifene 120/90/60/30
AI's Post Cycle Support
Animal Stak

 

[UnrealMachine]

Simple & effective, i like it.

Good luck, tell us how the results go

Oh I almost forgot, you may want to get some Taurine in case you get back pumps from the Mdrol, they may become a problem during week 3-4, during back or squat workouts

 

[henryhavoc]

Simple & effective, i like it.

Good luck, tell us how the results go

Oh I almost forgot, you may want to get some Taurine in case you get back pumps from the Mdrol, they may become a problem during week 3-4, during back or squat workouts

Agreed. 5g of Taurine on workout days should be good.

As far as acne goes, I got a few pimples but they were gone after I finished my cycle and PCT. It's not much to worry about don't worry ;-)

 

[saigonboi]

Sweet thanks for the input

 

[saigonboi]

Just thought of something, when do I take my FIRST dose of toremifene? The NIGHT of the last day I took my last mdrol or night afterward?

 

[UnrealMachine]

night after

 

[saigonboi]

Days 1-4 120mg
Days 5-13 90mg
Days 14-19 60mg
Days 20-24 30mg (as needed)

I saw the Anabolic Innovations rep suggest this dosage due to the fact that one bottle of Tor has 1800mg. Seems the most practical. It seems people tend to over-dose their PCT. From what I read more isn't necessarily better... like people who dose tamoxifene over 20mg. My question is if this is going to be sufficient?