1-ad vs 4-ad and hair
- 02-06-2004, 07:25 PM
- 02-12-2004, 02:43 AM
well 1 ad converts by some unknown mechanism to dht it is known to be quite androgenic so is probably pretty hard on hair. I dont lose hair on 1 -test but I know many who do.
4ad converts to testosterone which in turn can convert to dht, this conversion is bia a known method and can be blocked using finasteride or another anti-androgen. 4ad probably converts into only a few miligrams of dht per gram of 4ad since the conversion to test is so low anyways. Chemically 4ad should not directly convert to dht so i would have to say 4ad is the safer of the two on the hairline though not as safe as 1/.4 ad
- 03-18-2004, 12:54 PM
I have never lost a single hair from any androgen. Unless you are genetically pre-disposed to male pattern baldness, your hair will not be affected.
But I've definitely heard of more cases of hairloss from 1-test/1AD in those prone to MPB. If you are already balding, either could definitely speed it up.
03-22-2004, 04:54 PM
If one is currently taking finasteride, would a cycle of 4-ad and 1,4 andro be the best combination possible? Wish I had the article, but I read somewhere that finasteride and 1,4 andro arent supposed to be taken together (much like nordiol and finasteride). Comments?4ad converts to testosterone which in turn can convert to dht, this conversion is bia a known method and can be blocked using finasteride or another anti-androgen. 4ad probably converts into only a few miligrams of dht per gram of 4ad since the conversion to test is so low anyways. Chemically 4ad should not directly convert to dht so i would have to say 4ad is the safer of the two on the hairline though not as safe as 1/.4 ad
03-27-2004, 09:34 AM
I think that WITHOUT finasteride, for a given anabolic effect, 4AD should be harsher on the hairline, as it converts to testosterone, which is probably more androgenic than 1-test. However, if you took finasteride, your best bet would probably be 4AD, as it's been shown that along with a 5AR blocker test is much less androgenic.
Besides, without finasteride it's not clear if 4AD is harsher because a big share of 4AD's anabolic effects might stem from intrinsic anabolic mechanisms inherent to 4AD itself before conversion, so the issue might me much more complicated than "4AD converts to test at a 15% rate".
I think that whatever the mechanism is it's guaranteed that 4AD + PROSCAR is going to be much less androgenic than 1-test.
03-27-2004, 03:01 PM
1-AD is great if you hate your hair.
03-27-2004, 04:37 PM
Every steroid is great if you hate your hair, safe for Primo, Var, EQ and Deca.Originally Posted by Golgo13
That's why I think that 2-weekers are great when you use strong androgens such as test, tren or D-bol, you just don't have time to experience androgenic side effects this way and yet you get some easily maintained gains.
05-31-2004, 08:48 PM
dbol isnt bad on the hairline, anadrol on the other hand...
06-28-2004, 01:41 PM
- 6'0" 237 lbs.
- Join Date
- Oct 2002
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I have not had any hairloss problems with ANY adrogen except for 1-AD. All other PH's or AAS I've used never gave me any problems whatsoever.
06-28-2004, 03:46 PM
Are you prone to MPB jweave?
06-28-2004, 04:39 PM
- 6'0" 237 lbs.
- Join Date
- Oct 2002
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nope, which confuses meOriginally Posted by BigVrunga
06-29-2004, 03:29 AM
I didnt notice any hair loss on 1test/4AD at 166mg/330mg day (BDC T1), however.
Most males on my Dad's side of the family lost or are losing their hair - I noticed the signs early and took preventative measures. Not until after that cycle, though.
When I moved recently and started working a really stressful job 60+ hrs a week, my hair started falling out by the handful. A little mental re-work and some rhodiola rosea cleared the stress levels up quite a bit...
09-05-2004, 12:02 AM
i was always told you determine whether you are prone to mpb judging your mother's side of the family. all the males on my mom's side lost most of their hair during college. i'm doing ok for now but dbol is causing me to shed bad. is there anything you could buy possibly at walgreens to help prevent shedding....or at least slow it down?
09-05-2004, 02:35 AM
Not really bro. OTC Rogaine isnt going to stop the shedding. Saw Palmetto supposedly inhibits DHT, maybe you could try mega-doses of that. However, with D-bol I think its the androgenic nature of the steroid molecule causing the hair to fall out. In that case, Spironolactone is your best bet. In fact, if you're starting to lose your hair I would use a Spiro/Azelaic Acid/Minoxidil/Nizoral combo as soon as you can. That works to stop the shedding/regrow hair in most people. In many cases even while on cycle.
www.minoxidil.com is the only place I know to get this stuff, but the prices are OK and the quality is great. You have to fill out a questionaire and mail it to Dr.Lee, in order to officially become a patient of his and be able to order from the site. It takes about a week.
09-05-2004, 04:10 PM
09-06-2004, 10:27 PM
same here.Originally Posted by Longdog
09-06-2004, 11:50 PM
ok, say you are prone to MPB, if one were to take some form of hair care such as spiro, azealic, or minoxidil would these products continuously help block and re-grow hair if taken during a cycle and off a cycle? i know it vaires per person, but in my case i had a nice full head of hair until i started some m5aa. while i was on and during post cycle i didn't notice much hair loss but now i'm shedding horribly. would i have to continue using some form of hair care, such as the ones listed above, to keep my hair and possibly grow it back? because right now my hair is really pissed off at me.
09-07-2004, 01:24 AM
any opinions on which is better to take to prevent hair loss while "on" nizoral 2% or an azelaic Acid 5% and minoxidil 5% combo?
09-07-2004, 05:06 AM
Hey Knox - The m5aa could have accelerated the mechanism that would have caused you to lose hair naturally. For instance, health and diet aside, say you are genetically predisposed to start losing hair at 35. An androgen can cause you to start losing hair much earlier, kind of like 'kick starting' your genetic MPB. Even after you discontinue the androgen use, you'll follow the progression of your natural hair loss - just earlier.
From what you said though - you didnt start shedding on or during post cycle - its most likely complete coincidence and its just time for you to start losing your hair. Sure - it definatley could be because of the m5aa, but usually if an androgen is going to cause you to lose hair it would be when you have the highest levels of it in your system.
In most cases, yes. I think the Nizoral/Spiro/Minoxidil combo has positive results in something like 86% of the people that have tried it. From personal experience, its regrown a noticeable amount of hair for me. One *big* catch...once you start using minoxidil - you generally have to keep using it, or the hair that it has regrown will start to fall out a few months after you discontinue use. In most men,that is. Also - from what Ive read minoxidl will regrow all the hair that its possible for it to regrow in 2-3 years of use. But you'll still have to use it forever if you want to keep your hair. Not as often, maybe once a day or every other day, but you still have to use it. Good news is its a topical, not systemic and relatively cheap.ok, say you are prone to MPB, if one were to take some form of hair care such as spiro, azealic, or minoxidil would these products continuously help block and re-grow hair if taken during a cycle and off a cycle?
Its the only real way I know of to keep hair during a cycle (most people have great results), and actually regrow hair in those prone to MPB.
Use it all bro. The Nizoral helps condition the scalp and prime it for hair growth, as well has being a mild DHT inhibitor. Azelaic acid inhibits DHT, and Minoxidil encourages regrowth. Also wise to spironolactone, which blocks all andrigen molecules from your follicle receptors, not just DHT. You're attacking the problem from many angles, because hair loss could be caused be a bunch of different things.any opinions on which is better to take to prevent hair loss while "on" nizoral 2% or an azelaic Acid 5% and minoxidil 5% combo?
There's also oral finasteride, which works great for some. In combination with the above topical solution it could be very effective. Ive never tried it though.
You might want to do a search on Nioxin, its a hair regrowth system that's supposed to work well.
09-07-2004, 10:57 AM
this is good news for me BV, considering that i am prone to MPB i don't mind fishing out the extra cash to keep my mop. i'm about to mail out dr. lee's little questionaire and i pm'd custom and he said spiro will be back in stock shortly. most the hair care products dr. lee carries are pretty cheap and worth the investment. if someone started taking something like azealic or spiro, and since they both help block DHT, would these compounds deminish gains from something like M5aa? or, because these products are topical and only block DHT in the scalp it wouldn't affect a supplement that converts strickly to DHT?
09-08-2004, 01:39 AM
Knox,this is good news for me BV, considering that i am prone to MPB i don't mind fishing out the extra cash to keep my mop. i'm about to mail out dr. lee's little questionaire and i pm'd custom and he said spiro will be back in stock shortly. most the hair care products dr. lee carries are pretty cheap and worth the investment. if someone started taking something like azealic or spiro, and since they both help block DHT, would these compounds deminish gains from something like M5aa? or, because these products are topical and only block DHT in the scalp it wouldn't affect a supplement that converts strickly to DHT?
No, the topicals dont have a negative effect on systemic DHT conversion. They shouldnt have any kind of negative impact on strength gains from M5aa or test. Ive read of some people breaking out from using spiro, but Ive noticed no ill effects what-so-ever. My strength continues to rise slowly, and ive been using spiro consitently for about 7 months now and training naturally for well over a year. (there's my testimonial)
Dr.Lee's is the best place ive found. His price for Spiro is great, for the Xandrox products its a little high, but they're top quality and very effective. If Custom or Sledge start carrying anything like that though, I may switch
Please keep us updated on your progress with your MPB reversal/prevention! Good luck saving that hairline bro!!
09-08-2004, 02:06 AM
haha...thanks BV. i'll keep ya posted. MPB isn't something i'm celebrating and wish i didn't have to spend the time and money to keep it. oh well, i can thank my family for that.
09-08-2004, 11:36 PM
Is it true that MPB is determined by your mother's father?
09-09-2004, 12:02 AM
i just did a search and found that MPB is determined by both your mother and you fathers side. signs of MPB from either side of your family will put you at risk.
09-26-2004, 11:11 PM
This seems like the mantra on hairloss, but I'm not sure I agree 100%. A friend did some sustanon cycles with no problems. 2-3 years later he tried some 1-test and saw a lot of hairloss during the 1st 2 weeks (and stopped the 1-test). So maybe it's not necessarily as cut-and-dry as the claim above.Unless you are genetically pre-disposed to male pattern baldness, your hair will not be affected.
Last edited by rrgg; 09-27-2004 at 01:50 PM.
10-16-2004, 07:55 PM
Maybe because natural hair loss is generally caused by DHT, which would be elevated by the sustanon. With 1-test, its the actual 1-test molecule itself that finds its way to the follicle receptors. In that case, only Spiro would be effective. Other products (Azelaic Acid, Finasteride) only block DHT at the scalp and the 5AR enzyme, respectively.
10-16-2004, 10:04 PM
I understand the likely reason behind 1-test and test hairloss. I was really only making the point that it's not just a matter of being genetically prone to hairloss. There are other factors and there are degrees of proneness.
10-17-2004, 12:35 AM
Very true.There are other factors and there are degrees of proneness
01-02-2005, 11:27 PM
For me, 1-ad killed my hair line, even did damage while I was taking 2% spiro. I will never use 1-ad/1-test products...4-ad is easy on my hair, therefore I like 4-ad better...
01-04-2005, 01:15 AM
1-ad permanently made my hair thin.
02-22-2005, 12:43 PM
i didnt get any hairloss, but i was rubbing spiro in every morning with nizoral while i was on cycle...Once i go off cycle i dont use it anymore...Hairloss is on my fathers side...my mothers side has lotsa people with full thick hair...I have full very oily thick hair right as of now, I hope it stays that way, lol...even though the oil can be a pain in the ass I think it helps in the long run with keeping your hair
03-06-2005, 12:16 PM
If the premise "your mother's side of the family determines whether you are prone to MPB" is true, bear in mind that it would be because the MPB gene comes from mother's ADN 'inheritance', ergo you just cannot look at your mom's father because she wouldn't inherit the MPB from him, but from her mother... so the only chance would be looking at your mother and grandmother's hairlines and/or thinning in an attemp to find signs of weak hair... you may also look at your mother's brothers, but that might not be realiable 'cos they might have inherited MPB gene from your grandmother but your mom doesn't necessarily have had to inherit the same gene that her brothers have.Originally Posted by knox
05-20-2005, 04:50 PM
I have thin hair. No balding...just fine hair. Its been this way since I was 25. I've done 3 cycles with 1-ad and nothing has changed with my hair.
On my last cycle I ran 700mg/1-ad and 1500mg/4-ad every day for the last two weeks.
I would have to say that if you are predisposed to MPB then it will worsen the situation. Otherwise you are in the clear.
09-14-2005, 11:48 AM
That's a myth. The 'bald gene' can come from either side.If the premise "your mother's side of the family determines whether you are prone to MPB" is true, bear in mind that it would be because the MPB gene comes from mother's ADN 'inheritance', ergo you just cannot look at your mom's father because she wouldn't inherit the MPB from him, but from her mother...
10-16-2005, 06:29 PM
Is a slightly receeded hair line a sign of MPB or could their be other factors which cause a receeded hairline?
01-01-2007, 03:14 AM
I'm not prone to MPB, but I do have longish hair
when I'm running a heavy DHT compound I'll notice I tug a hell of a lot more out when I'm combing, and there's more lying around my place than normal - but I never go bald and it always stops.
The real killer is the prostate - feels like I've got a golfball up in there if I don't run some finasteride
01-01-2007, 07:31 PM
awsome posting. this helped me make my mind up. !!!word.
i no one thing im not hitting the. 1-ad
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