pct and androgel
- 02-06-2004, 12:56 PM
- 02-06-2004, 01:01 PM
- 02-06-2004, 01:08 PM
when i was about finished with m1t/4ad/m1,4add my test was so lon that my doc wants to test again in 1 month ,if its still low she wants to give me androgel. does androgel even fit into the cycle and pct? does it have any value if you are constantly raiseing and lowering you free test?
02-06-2004, 01:39 PM
02-06-2004, 01:49 PM
androgel is transdermal test, not a prohormone. I think its only meant to supplement people who naturally have low test levels. if you have normal test levels, i think it will just shut you down, while giving you a lower dose of test than your body naturally produces... I'm not sure - so i'll probably need bobo or someone to back me up.
02-06-2004, 02:16 PM
im taking it because i have low natural test
so im wondering if i should stay off it until after pct
02-06-2004, 02:47 PM
Hang on... you are on HRT? You DO know that the whole idea of pct is to recover natural test levels, correct?
02-06-2004, 02:54 PM
Exact-a-mundo.... can't recover to what ya don't have, right? Most people on HRT just do periodic cycles and after cycle return to their standard HRT. Depends on the circumstances, but I know quite a few guys on HRT that follow DC's cruising theory and do a 4 - 6 week cycle, then cruise on their HRT, and lather rinse repeat.Originally Posted by Jcc
02-06-2004, 03:02 PM
02-06-2004, 03:28 PM
There's several schools of thoughts on this, and you really have to decide for yourself, based on your current situation and future goals. I know of several docs who prescribe HRT and suggest getting off of it every X number of months and attempting recovery, so that there is still the possibilty of eventually not using HRT should you decide on that route later down the road, but after you've been on for several years it becomes a very long and laborious process to recover. For people who are planning on this, the option during cruising would be to use nolva/hcg/hrt replacement to restore size to the boys and keep them sensitive to some degree(no matter how minute it might be.)Originally Posted by orvise
Should you go with the other school of thought, having decided you have no real interest in ever stopping HRT then by all means, blast away for your 4 - 6 week cycle, and then drop to HRT levels occasionally using HCG to restore size to the boys.
And then there is vets on other boards who say do PCT for 1 - 2 weeks and then return to your androgel. I personally don't agree with this option as that hardly seems any more beneficial (a 1 week PCT?) than just starting up the HRT right after stopping the cycle and doing things to remind the boys they still have a purpose, while maintaining enough T in the body to hopefully not lose everything after your cycle.
.... I'd love to hear the mod's thoughts on all these options, and get their opinions. Bobo? Size? Everyone else?
02-06-2004, 03:33 PM
The only reason the doc would be giving you androgel is if she was unaware that you were running PH's and are in the process of recovery. In that situation, she's comming to the conclusion that you are in need of HRT. Androgel by itself does not have a place in a cycle, unless you are actually in need of HRT and then its just a free Rx for test to use when staying on year round My suggestion, get her to Rx some test cyp. But assuming you are an average male, with normal range test for your baseline, then no, androgel has no place in your cycle or PCT.Originally Posted by WATERLOGGED
02-06-2004, 03:38 PM
my test level was 230 before androgel it is 830
question is do i go straight to nolva or back to androgel after the cycle
02-06-2004, 03:43 PM
This is IMHO of course but...
Depends on goals. If ya think you'll just go with HRT indefinitely, I'd just hop right back on androgel and run another cycle in a couple weeks. If ya think you might stop, run the nolva side-by-side with starting your androgel, and either way plan on getting HCG for later on.
02-06-2004, 03:53 PM
i think i wll stay on hrt forever,who wants low test levels
ill just keep the nolva for later,think 2 weeks is enough of a break?
02-06-2004, 03:54 PM
02-06-2004, 04:08 PM
02-06-2004, 07:14 PM
thankz konman , i didnt know if i could use androgel to enhance my cycle on or bringing tesst up to par faster after cycle , to be sure and keep gains better.
02-07-2004, 08:01 AM
Isn't one of the reasons for PCT to help bring down estrogen levels? After a healthy dose of androgens, estrogen levels are going to be much higher then during typical HRT therapy using Androgel. As a point of reference, a 5g packet of Androgel daily is roughly equivalent to only 35 mg of test a week.
Personally I think it would be a mistake not to run Nolva for at least two weeks after a M1T/4AD cycle. I really would like to see Bobo or Chemo weigh in on this.
02-07-2004, 11:19 AM
02-07-2004, 12:10 PM
02-07-2004, 06:13 PM
i dont know , but i would think that since with your natural test is low after cycle and estrogen high, that nolva for 2-3+ weeks to block the estrogin while bringing back higher levels of nat. test , that the use of a helper would work to make the levels higher quicker. but its just a thought , some vets need to help on this issue since there are a few guys that do in fact need hrt.
02-07-2004, 08:23 PM
02-08-2004, 12:51 AM
Good thought, but doesn't hold up unfortunately. If he's on HRT, nolva will not be bringing him back up to any decent amount of test. Basically he'll just crash. Returning to the HRT(very fast acting androgel in this case) would be equivalent to a person doing an ideal PCT that recovered natty test in a matter of days. The estrogen issue is something I'd like Bobo or someone to speak on, but as far as it preventing his natty test from recovering, it is irrelavant if he returns to HRT, as there is no nat recovery then. Like I said earlier, if the plan was to come off HRT eventually, then making sure to keep the boys functioning once in awhile is the way to go, but if he's staying on as he has said, then there's simply no point that I can see.Originally Posted by WATERLOGGED
02-08-2004, 02:01 AM
Thats funny.Originally Posted by orvise
You had no business getting the androgel. Your test was low because of the hormones you are taking. 4ad does not give you high bloodlevels of test and your bloodlevels prove that you are SUPPRESSED.
You really need to do some PCT and get off the androgens till you do some research.
02-08-2004, 02:02 AM
Heh, I think you got confused between orvise's posts and WATERLOGGED's posts. WATERLOGGED's doc said in a month if levels were screwy she'd offer androgel, but he never said he'd take itOriginally Posted by Yimen E.Cricket
02-08-2004, 02:04 AM
02-08-2004, 02:09 AM
The doctors monitor the bloodlevels. Do you think they would give high doses raising test above normal levels. Ofcourse not. They raise it to a safe and functional level.
Suppression occurs when you are trying to pack on mass , not live a normal life.
If he continues androgel during PCT he will slow his natural recovery.
02-08-2004, 02:32 AM
830 will not cause suppression. But it will hinder recovery. Take nolva ONLY for 3 weeks 40/20/10, get tested again and resume HRT.Originally Posted by orvise
Do some research and ask your doctor.
02-08-2004, 03:44 AM
I too take Androgel for natually low test levels and I was acutlaly about to make a post on this my self, as I have a lot of questions about this product. I really hope Bobo or Chemo see this thread and post, as I really would like some good info from them as they know a lot about this type of stuff.
I had really really really low test levels, so low in fact I couldent gain any muscle. I started on 2 grams a day, and then 5 grams a day. They started bringing my test levels back up but still I was far from where they should be. I have been on 10 grams a day now for a few months and just got some blood work done this week, i should know by monday what my levels are up to now.
Baiscly, my questions are. What is adrogel basicly? Is it like 1 test or something like that? Since I been on 10 grames a day I have noticed a really big diffrence in how I feel and everything. I started putting on a ton of mass now too. So I been quite happy with it. Hopefully some one can provide some info to what exactly is in Androgel and how it works and what I should do if I plan on going on a one M1t cyle at some point.
Also, is Androgel good to use as a supplment? At 10 grams a day I been having great results with it, and is there any ways I could possably take in more of this? Being a transdremal there is a lot more in this stuff then your body is actually able to take in, so I was woundering is there anything I could combind with this to maybe take in even more out of my dosses every day? Any help or advice on any of these questions would be very much apericeated. Thanks.
Edit* after reading some other post on this, I was woundering if anyone that uses this stuff has been able to get the abbsorbstion rate up by using some DMSO. According to the pack, theres *I belive* 100 mb of test in each one, but it has only a 10% absorbstion rate. <--- really wants to boost that number up as my Doc is cool with me and continue to supply me with this stuff.
02-08-2004, 04:30 AM
Androgel is a transdermal testosterone(1%) carrier. It is *not* 1-test, or anything else. It is simply Test Base in a sustained release transdermal. How does it work? Same way as test, because it is test I'd definitely like to see Bobo/Chemo/et al's opinions on cycling while on HRT, but as stated above, that will be dependant on how your HRT schedule is currently set-up, and your future plans with HRT.Originally Posted by EPe9686518
Androgel is testosterone, but provides low-dose, sustained release. It is not a supplement, nor is it equivalent to taking Test-Cyp injections either. (Swale at CEM speculates though that due to increased DHT action, 35mg a week of test from androgel is ~= 100mg of TC) It has a great impact on low-T men, getting them up to the mid-high range. However, for natural, normal range guys it will not be bringing you up to supraphysiological levels.Also, is Androgel good to use as a supplment?
I doubt there's much to be added to it, but Chemo might have a suggestion. Since this thread has really had a long bout of questions, I'm hoping Chemo and the rest can come in with some-semi definitive answers and correct any mistakes I've made.Edit* after reading some other post on this, I was woundering if anyone that uses this stuff has been able to get the abbsorbstion rate up by using some DMSO. According to the pack, theres *I belive* 100 mb of test in each one, but it has only a 10% absorbstion rate. <--- really wants to boost that number up as my Doc is cool with me and continue to supply me with this stuff.
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