[ps24eva]

doesn't someone make nolva/clomid blend?

i thought i heard that before

[N4cer]

Because it's not any better than one or the other, although some people have too much money and need to WASTE it on crap like that.

[intv]

doesn't someone make nolva/clomid blend?

i thought i heard that before

yeah, liquid research makes a nolva/clomid combo. I think it saves you $5. I like to have anything (chems, supps, food) seperate personally, so that I can dose in the ratio I find best. I like taking clomid and nolva together PCT, but I take them with a lower dose of clomid than that combo contains. Also, what if gyno pops up? Do you really want to take 50-100 mg/day of clomid on cycle AND burn through your PCT chems? If they were seperate, you could take the nolva on cycle, then still have clomid for your PCT. (although I think clomid blows alone! you need high doses and get bad sides)

[brooklynheight]

some AAS users swear by it-

[supersoldier]

Because it's not any better than one or the other, although some people have too much money and need to WASTE it on crap like that.

How do you figure this? Nolva and Clo is definitely better then just one in the first two weeks post cycle. Something like Week 1 40mg(N)/100mg(C) ; Week 2 30mg(N)/50mg(C), Week 3 20mg(N), Week 4 10mg(N) will definitely get your balls up and running faster than just nolva IMHO. It's not a huge deal but if you got the money to "WASTE" it might save you a pound or two of muscle or spare a pound or two of fat or save you a couple days of feeling like total **** because you produce no testosterone.

[Dwight Schrute]

How do you figure this? Nolva and Clo is definitely better .....will definitely get your balls up and running faster than just nolva IMHO.

No its not and no it won't.

[MarcusG]

I believe another mod on am did say what supersoldier is repeating that nolv+clomid is better.

[N4cer]

Well, I also know that a lot of myths float around. Hell, I used to believe some bull**** about EQ and Deca acting in the same way and being a waste. Just like some people believe injectable winny won't damage the liver.

Now where's that damned Primo fairy?

[Dwight Schrute]

I believe another mod on am did say what supersoldier is repeating that nolv+clomid is better.

I know size has used this combo but I don't agree that it helps. There is no proof that it helps when both are used. Actually some studies suggest it might take longer when Clomid is used.

But if some people thinks it helps them, I won't argue with what they feel. The studies just show a different story.

I think using Nolva with 7-oxo is a much better combination.

[N4cer]

I HATE posting articles and studies, but this one is a good read for everyone:
http://www.mindandmuscle.net/magazine/i6clomid.html

[Longdog]

Whether or not combining the 2 helps restore natty test faster, it will certainly restore libido faster. When I use both, my libido is full force in a matter of days. It takes 2-3 weeks with nolva alone. Being married, I need it back fast. I don't always take both because of the clomid sides though.

[brooklynheight]

William Llewellyn is a jerk

[Dwight Schrute]

William Llewellyn is a jerk

If you have nothing constructive to add, don't post.

[ItriedtoripoffBobosonowIamgonehaveaniceday]

would you mind posting the next part that he mentions at the end. It seems like an interesting read. Thanks N4cer. I went to the site and couldnt find it.

[size]

I know size has used this combo but I don't agree that it helps.

But if some people thinks it helps them, I won't argue with what they feel. The studies just show a different story.

I think using Nolva with 7-oxo is a much better combination.

How DARE you disagree with me!

Seriously though,
I have used the clomid and novladex combo, and it works for me. However, I rely much more heavily on the nolvadex(nolva for 4 weeks and clomid for only 10-14 days) I have seen the studies the Bobo is refering to and it appears that he is correct. However, I have felt that this combo worked well for me. If you remember, it was not so long ago that everyone preached clomid and said nolvadex would not work. Now the tables have turned.

If I was forced to choose, I would certainly take Nolva over clomid w/o a doubt. The combo of nolva/clomid worked well for me once so I continued the same protocol. However, it is possible that the combo was unnecessary and I just happened to recover faster that time. None the less, I stuck with it.

In addition, I think 7oxo as Bobo suggested is a good idea.

[Dwight Schrute]

How DARE you disagree with me!

Don't listen to me. I don't know what I'm talking about

[Lean One]

How DARE you disagree with me!

Seriously though,
I have used the clomid and novladex combo, and it works for me. However, I rely much more heavily on the nolvadex(nolva for 4 weeks and clomid for only 10-14 days) I have seen the studies the Bobo is refering to and it appears that he is correct. However, I have felt that this combo worked well for me. If you remember, it was not so long ago that everyone preached clomid and said nolvadex would not work. Now the tables have turned.

If I was forced to choose, I would certainly take Nolva over clomid w/o a doubt. The combo of nolva/clomid worked well for me once so I continued the same protocol. However, it is possible that the combo was unnecessary and I just happened to recover faster that time. None the less, I stuck with it.

In addition, I think 7oxo as Bobo suggested is a good idea.

Size, Could you provide the dosages that you used for Nolva/Clomid PCT? I'm about to start mine. I have nolva,but I also have 1/2 a bottle of clomid left too. I would like to try using them both in the best way possible. Thanks.

[Longdog]

I had good results adding 100mg clomid the first 2 days, then 50mg for about 10 days. That's along with normal nolva dosing- 40mg/20mg/20mg/10mg over 4 weeks. I tried to use as little clomid as possible, since my face breaks out like a sausage pizza with high doses of it.

[Lean One]

I had good results adding 100mg clomid the first 2 days, then 50mg for about 10 days. That's along with normal nolva dosing- 40mg/20mg/20mg/10mg over 4 weeks. I tried to use as little clomid as possible, since my face breaks out like a sausage pizza with high doses of it.

Thanks man! I have just enough clomid to do that. I'll let you guys know if I recover any faster compared to clomid alone.

[N4cer]

would you mind posting the next part that he mentions at the end. It seems like an interesting read. Thanks N4cer. I went to the site and couldnt find it.

Here ya go: http://www.avantlabs.com/magmain.php...ID=7&pageID=77

The only bad part of that is the HCG dosages are WAY too high. This is a couple years old, so more is understood about aromatization's effect on Leydig cells. So now we know to use less HCG.

[Sir Foxx]

What is everyone's opinion of using either novladex or clomid with either 6-OXO or Formenstane? My PCT on this last cycle consisted of Clomid and Formenstane and it worked well, just wanted to know what others thought.

[N4cer]

I don't think aromatase inhibitors are needed in PCT, since there's not enough test available to worry about aromatization.

[Dwight Schrute]

First of all, withouth bloodwork nobody can tell if there PCT was successful. So all these people saying "I recovered better" means jack squat unless you can post bloodwork to prove it. Your increase in libido is NOT an indication. Your increase in testes size is a mild indication. And that doesn't mean checking for 3 weeks during PCT and see LH and test are rising and figure everything is ok. PCT is often a monthly process.

Second AI's can cause a nasty rebound of estrogen when levels are suppressed for a good peroid of time. Its not needed post cycle not to mention its effects on lipid profiles.

Third, Formestane in mildy suppressive itself so using it for PCT is a bad idea.

Fourth.......I don't have a fourth...

[size]

PCT is often a monthly process.

You get a gold star.

[Sir Foxx]

Well, I only used Formenstane for the first two weeks of PCT(the entire length was 5 weeks). I didn't have bloodwork done, but I base my opinion that it worked fine on the fact I only lost 9 pounds of weight after gaining 28lbs, my strength never faltered, and yes my sex drive was back to normal within that time frame. If it didn't work, I feel I would have lost more weight and definately strength. Also, I don't feel Formenstane is suppressive at all taken orally. Injection might be different, but orally I don't think their is enough conversion at the dose I was taking to be suppressive at all.

[MarcusG]

The problem with gauging recovery from just sex drive is that libido can be ok even if natural test levels are very very low (with a lot of variation among individuals of course).

[Dwight Schrute]

Also, I don't feel Formenstane is suppressive at all taken orally. Injection might be different, but orally I don't think their is enough conversion at the dose I was taking to be suppressive at all.

Studies already show it binds to the AR. It is suppressive. If it doesn't convert to an amount to have a suppressive effect, then if won't have any anti-estrogen effect. Whether you inject, take it orally, transdermal or whatever, the amount needed to cause an anti-e effect will in turn cause a suppressive effect. They go hand in hand.

[Dwight Schrute]

but orally I don't think their is enough conversion at the dose I was taking to be suppressive at all.

How would you know that?

[comrade]

Studies already show it binds to the AR. It is suppressive. If it doesn't convert to an amount to have a suppressive effect, then if won't have any anti-estrogen effect. Whether you inject, take it orally, transdermal or whatever, the amount needed to cause an anti-e effect will in turn cause a suppressive effect. They go hand in hand.

formestane? the aromatase inhibitor? yeah it might bind to the AR, but it also inhibits 5-alpha reductase (if I recall correct) and aromatase, how can you concluse that just because it binds to the AR receptor that it is inhibitory, did the study find this also? the anti-estrogen/dht effect could overcompenstate hypothetically.

[Sir Foxx]

I was basing my opinion on it not be suppressive on the fact that at 100mg a day(which is what I was taking), the bioavailbility is probably around 1 to 3 mg. I don't think 1 to 3 mg of formenstane is suppressive. I might be wrong, but my physique and subsequent off cycle say different.