doesn't someone make nolva/clomid blend?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by comrade
    formestane? the aromatase inhibitor? yeah it might bind to the AR, but it also inhibits 5-alpha reductase (if I recall correct) and aromatase, how can you concluse that just because it binds to the AR receptor that it is inhibitory, did the study find this also? the anti-estrogen/dht effect could overcompenstate hypothetically.
    Effects of 4-hydroxyandrost-4-ene-3,17-dione and its metabolites on 5 alpha-reductase activity and the androgen receptor.

    Davies JH, Shearer RJ, Rowlands MG, Poon GK, Houghton J, Jarman M, Dowsett M.

    Department of Urology, St. Georges Hospital, London, England, UK.

    The steroidal aromatase inhibitor, 4-hydroxyandrost-4-ene-3,17-dione (4OHA) and its metabolites, 4-hydroxytestosterone (4OHT), 3 beta,17-dihydroxy-5 alpha-androstan-4-one (metabolite A) and 3 alpha, 17-dihydroxy-5 beta-androstan-4-one (metabolite B) were evaluated as inhibitors of the human prostatic 5 alpha-reductase enzyme and for binding to the rat prostatic androgen receptor. 4OHA and 4OHT were weak inhibitors of 5 alpha-reductase with IC50 values of 15-29 microM. Metabolites A and B had no significant inhibitory activity. 4OHA and metabolites A and B bound weakly to the androgen receptor. The binding affinities (RBA) relative to mibolerone (RBA = 100) were 0.085, 0.485 and 0.016, respectively. However, 4OHT (RBA = 75) was a more potent binder than the endogenous androgen 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (RBA = 66). The ability of these metabolites, in particular 4OHT, to bind to the androgen receptor may explain the in vivo androgenic activity of 4OHA.
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by Sir Foxx
    I was basing my opinion on it not be suppressive on the fact that at 100mg a day(which is what I was taking), the bioavailbility is probably around 1 to 3 mg. I don't think 1 to 3 mg of formenstane is suppressive. I might be wrong, but my physique and subsequent off cycle say different.
    Where do you get these numbers from? And what do you mean that the bioavailability is 1 to 3mg? How do you know how much is availbable for tissue use?

    Also how does your physique show recovery? Just by weight and strenght?

    Do you have bloodwork to show your recovery?

    What do you base you conclusion on that 1-3mg won't suppress? I can find a study showing Var (weakest of all steroid) to suppress at 2.5mg/day and thats in a normal male that is NOT suppressed. Estrgoen metabolites can suppress in mcg's.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by comrade
    the anti-estrogen/dht effect could overcompenstate hypothetically.
    What do you mean the anit-e effect? The creation of a steroidal deficit I assume to creat LH pulse?

    That would be saying that Nolva can raise test levels during cycle and it can't. If the feedback loop is triggered, it doesn't matter what the deficit is, the testes will not respond to LH. Only HCG can bypass that.
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by Sir Foxx
    I don't think 1 to 3 mg of formenstane is suppressive. .

    Forgot to mention even if it isn't that suppressive on those amounts, your already suppressed. Introducing a substance that has androgenic effects would only slow down the process. Even Bill L admitted that when he said 6-oxo would be better for PCT and Formestane during a cycle.
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  5. I get the 1 to 3 mg from Derek at Syntrax. This is what he told me. And yes, bloodwork is a more accurate gauge of what is really going on, but I have a good feel for my body and what is occurring. If my nat. test levels weren't coming back up to normal and staying there I would know it, both in the weight room and the mirror. I don't know if taking Formenstane is the right thing to do with Clomid for PCT, but I figured I would try it out this time. Maybe just the Clomid would have done better, faster. Then again, maybe for your next PCT try what I did: 5 week PCT, Clomid all five 5 weeks at recommended dosages, and Formenstane at 100mg a day for the first week and a half and then 50 mg for the last part of the second week.

    On my next cycle PCT I will be doing only Clomid and I will do the blood work through out the cycle and PCT.
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  6. I still don't understand where he got that number from. Nobody knows that number.

    This is from Bill L who was the first to market something like this.

    "My .02. I like Nolvadex better (if I HAD to pick) because it supports HDL cholesterol synthesis (its estrogenic action in the liver), but formestane is simply a killer aromatase inhibitor."

    This is from Pat:

    "However, unlike formestane it does not convert to any metabolites with strong androgenic activity. So it is a better choice for post cycle recovery than formestane.

    Well, if it is enough to "help" in regards to androgenic activity then by definition it will be enough to "hinder" HPTA activity as well. Hinder in this case means to partially counteract the HPTA stimulating anti-estrogenic activity.

    With 6-oxo there is no HPTA "tug of war" going on, there is just pure anti-estrogenicity and therefore maximum HPTA stimulation.

    YOur product is very good for use during cycle Bill, but for post cycle recovery it is clearly inferior to 6-OXO"



    And if you didn't notice the potency, the RBA was only 25% less the miberlone (cheque drops).


    And I still don't know how you can tell me "I know my body and I know whats going" when you don't even have blood test or a reference point. You keep sayin I can see a difference in the mirror but fail to understand that recovery can take months and you might not see differences until 1-3 months after PCT is finished. You could have a raging libido and STILL have low test levels. You could have small nuts but have HIGH test levels. If you don't know these things, you don't know your body. What you "feel" has zero basis far making an educated recommendation.
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  7. But thats the thing Bobo, it's almost 10 weeks since the cycle ended. My nuts are not shrunken, my weight is steady, my lifts are strong, my physique looks good. I've started my cutting cycle and all is going well. If my nat. test levels were low, most of this wouldn't be true. I'm not a simpleton, and if the formenstane hurt a little, the Clomid more than made up for it. You make it sound like you can have low test levels but still maintain the gains one made on cycle. I don't think you can. That is why by keeping what I gained after all this time, I'm pretty sure my PCT was successful.

  8. Short of shooting HCG you are BOUND TO HAVE low test levels for at least the first two weeks post cycle. EXTREMELY LOW! And lot's of people that don't shoot HCG keep their gains.

  9. I understand that SS, but I'm not talking the first two weeks, I'm talking right now, 10 weeks later. I feel I've recovered.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by supersoldier
    Short of shooting HCG you are BOUND TO HAVE low test levels for at least the first two weeks post cycle. EXTREMELY LOW! And lot's of people that don't shoot HCG keep their gains.

    But the ones that do keep more. If I'm not mistaken he lost almost 1/3 of his gains. THats not acceptable to me at all. I've done cycles where I've lost nothing at all because of what I used, how I trained and how I ate. If I lost almost 1/3 of my gains, I'd be pissed off.
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by Sir Foxx
    I'm not a simpleton, and if the formenstane hurt a little, the Clomid more than made up for it. .

    It doens't matter if it made up for it!!! The point is using it diminishes the effect of Clomid and/or Nolva because there is a tug of war going on with you being suppressed, and not being suppressed. Its not that hard to follow. Why the HELL would you want to put something in your body that has adrogenic activity while your trying to RECOVER? It doesn't make sense and just because your mirror tells you so, doesn't mean its smart.

    This is just ridiculous..
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  12. Like I said Bobo, I was trying some stuff out, to see what the results were. So me losing 9lbs was unacceptable to you? I look at this way. Last year on Feb. 1st I weighed 178lbs. Today I weighed 210lbs, with the calipers showing me at 13% BF. At the end of the last cycle I weighed 218 lbs. I'm happy with that. Considering I'm only 5'8" and that my goal is to reach 225lbs at 10% BF, I'm very close to being where I want to be. Sorry if that isn't up to your standards.

  13. My standards should be your standards. Your standards should be mine. They should be one and the same. I don't bust my ass in the gym, analyze my diet and know everything I can know about the hromones I take to lose 1/3 of my gains post cycle. Just because Derek gave some Aromazap doens't mean you had to take it. You should of used it during a cycle where its a very good aromatase inhibitor. You probably would of ketp more gains if just used the Clomid, but nobody will ever know that now.
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    My standards should be your standards. Your standards should be mine. They should be one and the same.

    This is a really good point.
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