oral or inject? whats best

[qwerty33]

what is best in terms of safety, results and easy of use.

 

[corsaking]

if you can get hold of injectables go for it,injectables have least effect on the liver.whereas 17 alpha steroids are constructed in a way to prevent liver breaking them down , thereby raising liver enzymes, injectables do not as far as i am aware.That said though injectables go into the blood stream so must at some stage pass through the liver .However its nothing to be alarmed about.

 

[Zero V]

Its a ratio game of legal risk and physical risk.

BTW this is all my opinion with information I have gathered over time. I have not ran anything yet, simply been learning the best I can for a few years.

Some peeps use AAS Injectables(dbol as well though which is toxic) only and wont touch PH/DS items. But eh.

The illegal route totes Test, Deca, Tren(real tren), winny, and more as ineluctables and orals such as dbol and anavar. Pretty much the most potent, but also requirie longer lengths of time to be useful, requires constant injections, hcg may be recommended, and a very good PCT is usually in order considering from what I see Test alone is ran 10-12 weeks for best results.

Those also carry the legal risk. And pinning requires you to sterilize and be safe, and carries risk of infection, hitting a nerve hitting a blood vessel, panic attack if its your first time, etc.

The PH/DS route which includes methylated steroids such as epistane, halo, superdrol are easier to get ahold of and legal. There are also legal non-metyhles such as bold and tren, which are usually run alongside a methyl to increase its benefits. Included are legal transdermals such as PP's 1-T.

For both routs PCT is almost in all likely hood is just as important if not more important than the cycle. A SERM is usually highly recommended. And for long cycles hcg is used to keep your boys from completely vanishing and making recovery easier.

SERM's are either illegal or grey market depending on the state you decided to acquire it in.

A PCT for injectable will likely need to be much stronger than an oral. Also for any methylated orals liver support is also necessary.

In all honesty from pricing I have done from both sides formyself, the price difference is the same often times, if not legal PH/DS costs more. Unless your injectable cycle is multileveled though(Tes/Deca/dbol for ex.).

the PH/DS route wins ease of use. Its all oral, even the SERM's. It is also usually shorter ranging from 3 weeks(superdrol) to 8 weeks(bold) with most of them being 4weeks.

Injectable produces more gains usually but is also across a wider gap, and is done via injection depending on the ester and compounds. Ranging from two injections a week up. Some people even do one a week but there are arguments over fluoridation in the hormones from that.

Hope that helps some lol. Again all IMO.

Results=Injectables (though some orals like super clones can give some hefty gains)
Safety=Debatable
Ease of Use=PH/DS(IMO, if you dont mind needles, injections may be easier)

 

[CrazyChemist]

reps to zero for good advice.

I stay away from all-oral cycles period due to the liver toxicity (this usually means PH/DS). I think the liver toxicity trumps any complications associated with injectibles.

qwerty33 - sounds to me like you are considering your first cycle and trying to get a feel for what to run. I'll tell you, I'm presently running the topical PH 1-t tren and having great results so far. I was skeptical and was planning on using it as an anti-catabolic during my cut but I'm making solid dry gains. I would consider this as a good starting point as it is one of the safest available, very easy to use, and for me providing great results (plus it is legal). Also, remember that diet and training need to be in check or no matter what you run you'll only see minimal gains and they'll be short-lived. Good luck

 

[qwerty33]

thats funny bc im on just finishing my 6 wk 1-t tren and am getting idea for my next cycle down the road. I have only used ph/ds in the past and just want some info on the inject side.

I am more concerned about safety than the legality of it. Altho i have no idea where to buy inject stuff. Maby find into on "the other forum"

 

[Road Rash]

Learn how to safely use injectables if you decide to go the AAS route. There is no comparison between that and orals. Orals can be a nice adjunct to a cycle, but they need to be used intelligently and sparingly. Just my .02

 

[EasyEJL]

A plain 350mg/wk testosterone propionate 8 week cycle will have fantastically better results than 1-T tren while having less sides and basically be just providing your body more of what it already makes. Don't fall prey to "you wont make any gains at less than 12 weeks of test-cyp and 40mg/day of dbol first 4 weeks to start" as its not true, just an easily repeatable phrase. Don't feel the need to add anything else the first time. With prop particularly it will kick in fast anyhow.

There are a number of places where testosterone and other steroids are legal. In england , mexico, most of the carribean islands, etc. A 350mg/wk 8 wk of prop will require 3 vials which falls into the category of being able to bring it back through customs, as that is still under a 90 day supply of TRT grade dosing

 

[nosnmiveins]

A 350mg/wk 8 wk of prop will require 3 vials which falls into the category of being able to bring it back through customs, as that is still under a 90 day supply of TRT grade dosing

but wouldnt u need a script to prove it IF asked about it?

 

[lozgod]

There really is no argument. Everyone talks about methyls and the liver but I never heard of anyone having life threatening liver complications using up to 150mgs of a methylated AAS. I have seen many many lipid bloodwork postings after using methylated steroids that were a heart attack or stroke in the making even if it is 5-10 years away. Injectables have way less health consequence.

 

[qwerty33]

does test 350mg kill libido and ptc is still clomi or nolva? what type of gains would i expect

 

[Zero V]

does test 350mg kill libido and ptc is still clomi or nolva? what type of gains would i expect

Test at 350g will have you drilling holes into every object with your tool that your mind can justify I believe

 

[qwerty33]

very nice. should make the gf happy. what type of gains and streignth does test compare to? also what do people norm stack with it? not that i would. also is buying online a good or really bad idea?

how often do you inj?

 

[Road Rash]

Test at 350g will have you drilling holes into every object with your tool that your mind can justify I believe

HA! Absolutely. My girlfriend has to hide from me after a couple of days together. A 19 year old has nothing on me. Except maybe hair!:lol:

 

[EasyEJL]

but wouldnt u need a script to prove it IF asked about it?

its one of those grey areas since its OTC in those other countries. Generally for personal use quantities, they dont give a crap.

 

[EasyEJL]

does test 350mg kill libido and ptc is still clomi or nolva? what type of gains would i expect

very nice. should make the gf happy. what type of gains and streignth does test compare to? also what do people norm stack with it? not that i would. also is buying online a good or really bad idea?

how often do you inj?

350mg of test prop a week is pretty close to the same net testosterone as 400mg~450 of cyp as its a smaller ester. Gains and strength are dependent on your diet + training. Tweaked heavily diet + training wise, an 8 week cycle could net 16lbs after pct. But diet + training have to be 100% on point. Honestly diet is what controls gains, particularly gains kept over time. Any juice used just accelerates the process, or helps you retain water and excess glycogen. So you might see anywhere from 4-24lbs, just like the range i've seen on superdrol or any of a ton of other things. the really nice plus of it being from test though is basically no sides other than maybe slightly increased estrogen levels (part of why I like lower doses anyhow) and raised dht (so hairloss is a possibility, or some prostate swelling) but none of those are that common at that dose. Blood pressure rarely changes in that amount of time, and no liver stress.

I wouldn't stack it, just run it solo and enjoy it.

Nolva or clomid for pct would work well.

Buying "online" is sort of a bad idea as if they have a regular type storefront, and particularly if they directly accept credit cards or paypal then they are just ripping you off. Problem is you never know for sure what is in the bottle you get.

 

[Zero V]

350mg of test prop a week is pretty close to the same net testosterone as 400mg~450 of cyp as its a smaller ester. Gains and strength are dependent on your diet + training. Tweaked heavily diet + training wise, an 8 week cycle could net 16lbs after pct. But diet + training have to be 100% on point. Honestly diet is what controls gains, particularly gains kept over time. Any juice used just accelerates the process, or helps you retain water and excess glycogen. So you might see anywhere from 4-24lbs, just like the range i've seen on superdrol or any of a ton of other things. the really nice plus of it being from test though is basically no sides other than maybe slightly increased estrogen levels (part of why I like lower doses anyhow) and raised dht (so hairloss is a possibility, or some prostate swelling) but none of those are that common at that dose. Blood pressure rarely changes in that amount of time, and no liver stress.

I wouldn't stack it, just run it solo and enjoy it.

Nolva or clomid for pct would work well.

Buying "online" is sort of a bad idea as if they have a regular type storefront, and particularly if they directly accept credit cards or paypal then they are just ripping you off. Problem is you never know for sure what is in the bottle you get.

Bingo lol...... Man next time I am in Mexico...I went into their little shack of a "medicine shop" and was like.... HOLA SON!!!! But faced moral delima of picking up steroids on a Missions Trip LOL. Obviously I didnt get any. And damn we didnt even get searched coming back into the states :sad3::damnit:

Besides, I can hide crap perfectly. And I dont think drug huffing dogs can smell Test. lol.

I wonder theoretically and hypothetically can you basically make a clay object, and bake it so it becomes pottery with the vials in it? turning it into a solid state, a lil figure or something, that really houses a prize inside?

 

[nosnmiveins]

any test is great JUST for the well-being feeling. i know nothing compares to a first cycle, but my first cycle i ran HG test-e and felt amazing, 2nd cycle was UGL and it couldnt compare at alllllll.

personally, unless a "higher" dosage of test is run (for me) test only gains were minimal and slow....but i was able to keep everything.


the points in trying to make:

1) get HG test or a well well well known UGL brand

2) ur first cycle will be ur best, so u will grow PLENTY on say 400-500mg test-e or 350mg test prop.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Bingo lol...... Man next time I am in Mexico...I went into their little shack of a "medicine shop" and was like.... HOLA SON!!!! But faced moral delima of picking up steroids on a Missions Trip LOL. Obviously I didnt get any. And damn we didnt even get searched coming back into the states :sad3::damnit:

Besides, I can hide crap perfectly. And I dont think drug huffing dogs can smell Test. lol.

I wonder theoretically and hypothetically can you basically make a clay object, and bake it so it becomes pottery with the vials in it? turning it into a solid state, a lil figure or something, that really houses a prize inside?

I dunno man, there's still some air in vials, it's not something i would want to throw INTO A KILN

It can't be too hard to hide some vials of test somewhere

 

[qwerty33]

whats the difference bw prop and test e?

 

[UnrealMachine]

might wanna take those links down

 

[suncloud]

And damn we didnt even get searched coming back into the states :sad3::damnit:

sucks. i get searched every time i get back into the states. and the poor white guy stuck behind me to prove they're not profiling shows how good of a job border security is doing. man i hate those tools.

funny story. last time i traveled i went to costa rica. the "security" picked meat out of someone's bag (the meat was sticking out of the bag) and said "ok you can go" without searching the rest of the bag. 75 minutes later after searching for bad images on my computer and my camera and ransacking the rest of my crap they let me go.

the good thing is i travel with my release from active duty, and a copy of my TS/SCI clearance from DoD, so i spend all 75 minutes telling them how "impressed" i am with their job.

 

[qwerty33]

whats the difference bw prop and test e?

and can they search your cam and computer? thats messed up

 

[nosnmiveins]

whats the difference bw prop and test e?

and can they search your cam and computer? thats messed up

prop = short ester attached = must inject eod

enanthate = long ester attached = inject 2x week

 

[qwerty33]

do they yeild the same results? i am leaning 2 inject as of now but i have a long time to think about it. Just started 1-t tren ptc. Ptc w/ test inj is similar right? cort blocker serm and ai?

and if its only 1 inject a week or 2 w/e thats not bad at all

 

[Zero V]

whats the difference bw prop and test e?

and can they search your cam and computer? thats messed up

What you think we have rights in this country? LOL

Yes if you go to a nice place in Mexico with your wife on a honeymoon or trip, be sure to store any dirty deed pics on an SD card and remove it from the camera....

Hmm that fact about the pottery thing makes sense. Eh was just a hypothetical idea

 

[qwerty33]

will test prop suppress my immune system at all? at around 350?

 

[Zero V]

will test prop suppress my immune system at all? at around 350?

I "think" pretty much any exogenous anabolic/androgenic substances will have a negative impact on the immune system. Not sure how much. This is not something I have pinned down yet though lol.

 

[Whacked]

enanthate = long ester attached = inject 2x week

Once a week suffices just fine as Ive been doing that for years

 

[Harland]

Its a ratio game of legal risk and physical risk.

BTW this is all my opinion with information I have gathered over time. I have not ran anything yet, simply been learning the best I can for a few years.

Some peeps use AAS Injectables(dbol as well though which is toxic) only and wont touch PH/DS items. But eh.

The illegal route totes Test, Deca, Tren(real tren), winny, and more as ineluctables and orals such as dbol and anavar. Pretty much the most potent, but also requirie longer lengths of time to be useful, requires constant injections, hcg may be recommended, and a very good PCT is usually in order considering from what I see Test alone is ran 10-12 weeks for best results.

Those also carry the legal risk. And pinning requires you to sterilize and be safe, and carries risk of infection, hitting a nerve hitting a blood vessel, panic attack if its your first time, etc.

The PH/DS route which includes methylated steroids such as epistane, halo, superdrol are easier to get ahold of and legal. There are also legal non-metyhles such as bold and tren, which are usually run alongside a methyl to increase its benefits. Included are legal transdermals such as PP's 1-T.

For both routs PCT is almost in all likely hood is just as important if not more important than the cycle. A SERM is usually highly recommended. And for long cycles hcg is used to keep your boys from completely vanishing and making recovery easier.

SERM's are either illegal or grey market depending on the state you decided to acquire it in.

A PCT for injectable will likely need to be much stronger than an oral. Also for any methylated orals liver support is also necessary.

In all honesty from pricing I have done from both sides formyself, the price difference is the same often times, if not legal PH/DS costs more. Unless your injectable cycle is multileveled though(Tes/Deca/dbol for ex.).

the PH/DS route wins ease of use. Its all oral, even the SERM's. It is also usually shorter ranging from 3 weeks(superdrol) to 8 weeks(bold) with most of them being 4weeks.

Injectable produces more gains usually but is also across a wider gap, and is done via injection depending on the ester and compounds. Ranging from two injections a week up. Some people even do one a week but there are arguments over fluoridation in the hormones from that.

Hope that helps some lol. Again all IMO.

Results=Injectables (though some orals like super clones can give some hefty gains)
Safety=Debatable
Ease of Use=PH/DS(IMO, if you dont mind needles, injections may be easier)

ive been researching steroids almost as long as ive been in the game. I think for the most part what you posted is correct. Ive researched basic cycles vs ph/ps cycles and both can be purchased for the same price.

I think you make a good point in that one of the main parts is legal risk. I think that is why so many people buy ph/ps and dont want to go to the dark side.

One thing that has kept me from using aas is the fact that you forgot to mention and that is starting point. I think that having a good base is a MUST before you start injecting. Ive seen too many people both online and in person that are using gear that imo are wasting money.

The same applies to ph/ps in the sense that i know some 19yr olds at the gym that come up to me asking me if i know about "super D and tren".

but what does starting point really mean? that is what ive truly asked myself over the years. i mean i was 22 and had trained for six years before i ever touched ph/ps. And i was around during the days of old ph's, **** i even knew places to get raw powders and create my own ph injectables. but i didn't even think about actually doing it.

I think the real question everyone should ask themselves are their true goals. Some of my original goals where to be 225lbs. I made that easily before ever touching ph/ps. Then i thought why aint I as big as i pictured? So i made the goal of getting 18inch arms and a 50inch chest. I sit here today at 17.5inch arms and a 49.5 inch chest. Yeah some ph/ps have helped me achieve that. But considered the hard work and dedication i put into planning and running those cycles and the gains i received. I wonder how many more cycles will I have to do before i get to the point and what stress do i put on my body by doing numerous cycles to achieve something that i could possibly achieve by starting AAS and doing possibly one cycle.

One last thing i want to say is that of cycle lengths and safety. It was mentioned that an average ph/ps cycle last like 4 weeks of epi/superdrol/etc. and that of aas last 12 weeks of test e or cyp.
Well i want to say that everyone should consider more research. Because personally i dont think that for a first cycle that a long ester should be used. I know that sides usually start popping up for me on ph/ps around end week 4 start week 5. I usually then simply stop the cycle and start recovery. Because of the half life of the orals and the ease of just not taking them anymore. Well if you are running a long cycle of cyp for 12 weeks and a problem arises in week 9 you basically have to wait 13-17 days before the ester leaves your body.

So basically just research what your doing, everything can be done safely. **** one glass of wine a night has shown to have benefits, but drinking bottles of whiskey can cause death...

 

[UnrealMachine]

^But you are more likely to encounter sides running the PH than running injectables. With test, you run your AI on cycle so there's no estrogen sides, which leaves basically no side effects... maybe acne.
With the orals, there's liver toxicity, back pumps, lethargy, loss of appetite, loss of libido.... usually far worse than most injectables. I think it's pretty unlikely to get sides during week 9 of test that will force you to end the cycle.
I'll tell ya what the main side of test is, it's being TOO horny.

I'd encourage people to run injectables over orals, it's a longer cycle so you can keep more of the gains, it's less harsh on your body, and test is your body's natural hormone.

Worried about the clearance of the ester, no sweat, shoot Prop instead of cyp.

I'd rather see those gym 19 year olds shooting test than stacking Superdrol with 19-nor and running those 3-in-one oral stacks etc etc *assuming they know how to use needles*

 

[Harland]

^But you are more likely to encounter sides running the PH than running injectables. With test, you run your AI on cycle so there's no estrogen sides, which leaves basically no side effects... maybe acne.
With the orals, there's liver toxicity, back pumps, lethargy, loss of appetite, loss of libido.... usually far worse than most injectables. I think it's pretty unlikely to get sides during week 9 of test that will force you to end the cycle.
I'll tell ya what the main side of test is, it's being TOO horny.

I'd encourage people to run injectables over orals, it's a longer cycle so you can keep more of the gains, it's less harsh on your body, and test is your body's natural hormone.

Worried about the clearance of the ester, no sweat, shoot Prop instead of cyp.

I'd rather see those gym 19 year olds shooting test than stacking Superdrol with 19-nor and running those 3-in-one oral stacks etc etc *assuming they know how to use needles*

exactly what i was trying to get across.

I was just using week 9 as a reference i know the sides with a test only cycle should be low espically with say .25mg or .5mg arimidex

Also that is why my first cycle that i have planned for a while was test prop 100mg EOD for 8 weeks, or roughly 60 days. with the first four weeks dbol 20-30mg and af course .5mg arimidex EOD. everytime i sit back and look at the cycle i know that with a shorter fast acting cycle i could get better gains and less sides the ph/ps. I know that the 8 weeks will leave me with a better chance for recovering and no need for HCG.

and i wasn't going to say it, lol but i rather see dumbasses taking test only cycles then messing with hormones.

 

[EasyEJL]

I'll tell ya what the main side of test is, it's being TOO horny.

at 200mg a week for TRT i'm hornier than I ever was at 18

 

[Zero V]

I was considering skipping Orals and going into injectables right off the bat considering Test E/cyp/Prop or Sust is easy to acquire(never touching depot). But I got The One, and 1-T on hand....couldnt hurt to give those each a go in their own right over time. Considering I dont drink, I think my liver would survive The One, and 1-T wont bother it lol.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Yeah i'm not necessarily that worried about my liver when it comes to running the orals, however with injectables you can run cycles heavy and long, stacking as many compounds as you care to inject.

You can run test, deca, and EQ for months, just take some HCG along with it... that's how you get big. Not running 4 weekers, putting on 12 pounds where only ~5 of it is muscle and the rest is water.

 

[Harland]

again ive never used aas, but i still think from what ive gathered is that longer cycles, could lead to harder recoveries, but with running the HCG at say 200-500iu every 3-5 days during the second half or whole cycle, could help out. But that in itself lies another problem in that i read that hcg over long periods of time can hurt your LH levels.

 

[EasyEJL]

the real trick I think is to do moderate length cycles, and not shoot for crazy gains. Would anyone here complain about adding 18 actual pounds of muscle a year?

 

[Harland]

the real trick I think is to do moderate length cycles, and not shoot for crazy gains. Would anyone here complain about adding 18 actual pounds of muscle a year?

as along as it means inches on the tape... lol

 

[EasyEJL]

yeah, but i'm saying 3 moderate cycles a year can do that as well as or better than 1-2 gangbuster cycles, partially because you can manage calories/fat gain closer.

 

[Harland]

yeah, but i'm saying 3 moderate cycles a year can do that as well as or better than 1-2 gangbuster cycles, partially because you can manage calories/fat gain closer.

oh yeah, exactly. i would think like 2-3 8-9 week cycles would be awesome.

 

[qwerty33]

you guys all know your stuff and i really like the discussion that's going on. Its very helpful.

Easy. i really like the way you you think in moderate cycles of just test to achieve solid not crazy gains.

2q. What is ptc like for a 8-12 wk test prop cycle?
dbol harsh on the body? and i feel it gives sides

"The active hormone in E-Stane is 1100% as anabolic and 91% as androgenic as methyl-test. This A/A ratio shows that E-Stane is one of the best available choices for recomposition and cutting cycles, especially in those looking for dramatic strength and lean muscle gains."

how can this be true? this is CEL e-stane (epi)

for my next cycle i think i am going to go w/ 8 wk test-prop solo

 

[Harland]

you guys all know your stuff and i really like the discussion that's going on. Its very helpful.

Easy. i really like the way you you think in moderate cycles of just test to achieve solid not crazy gains.

2q. What is ptc like for a 8-12 wk test prop cycle?
dbol harsh on the body? and i feel it gives sides

"The active hormone in E-Stane is 1100% as anabolic and 91% as androgenic as methyl-test. This A/A ratio shows that E-Stane is one of the best available choices for recomposition and cutting cycles, especially in those looking for dramatic strength and lean muscle gains."

how can this be true? this is CEL e-stane (epi)

for my next cycle i think i am going to go w/ 8 wk test-prop solo

i think from what i have read, a cycle shorter then 6 weeks is stupid and the longer you go past say 8-10 weeks the harder it will be to recover, now that all depends on the user, and their bodies. I would say a 8week test prop (which would be what i would run for a first) would only need a good 4 weeks of clomid/nolva pct with some AI during the whole cycle or during pct. but then again i have never done anything of that nature, so its hard to sit on the outside and say exactly would happen. but if i were the one doing the cycle, i would do the 4 weeks of clomid/nolva with ai.

 

[PumpDogg]

Learn how to safely use injectables if you decide to go the AAS route. There is no comparison between that and orals. Orals can be a nice adjunct to a cycle, but they need to be used intelligently and sparingly. Just my .02

I could not have said any better myself.. No freakin comparison

 

[qwerty33]

when you say nolva/clomi is the either or, or both together?

also sides are much less on inj, what are the gyno risks?

i feel so stupid for doing a cycle of tren epi and sd in the past now that i know all this. Back in the day i use sd with 6-oxo extreme as ptc.

 

[nosnmiveins]

when you say nolva/clomi is the either or, or both together?

also sides are much less on inj, what are the gyno risks?

i feel so stupid for doing a cycle of tren epi and sd in the past now that i know all this. Back in the day i use sd with 6-oxo extreme as ptc.

clomid or nolva is fine, some ppl like to run both but its not necessary.

yes sides are less, for me at least.

running an AI on cycle can prevent any bloat or gyno issues

 

[EasyEJL]

on a low dose cycle, gyno risks are virtually nothing

 

[PumpDogg]

I also wanted to come back and add this.. After my post I finished reading the rest of the comments here..
From what I gather most of you have just read about gear and have never really messed with injectables per say..

If you want to run short cycles stick with your orals.. Im not going to type a page of reasons as to why this and that, but this forum is not really a forum of hardcore steroid using bodybuilders.. Its more of a supplement forum.. Just being honest.. I have been a member here for many years, but rarely post..

There are plenty of hardcore bodybuilding forums that if you are looking to use gear will be filled with more knowledge than you can absorb..

An injectable lets just use test e here for example, you are not going to see anything usually till around week 4.. It takes a while for an injectable before you see any progress at all..
12 weeks should be your minimum cycle time when using these compounds.. Your body needs time to adjust to your new found muscle/weight etc.. If you think you will run an 8 weeker and make all these gains etc, and contiune to cycle in that fashion and do well you are sorely mistaken..

Also you should run only test your very first time out.. You need to know what drug is affecting you and how,, The need for an anti estrogen or an aromatose inhibitor is not a necessity either.. You first need to know how your body repsonds to the drug you are injecting..

Thinking that you have to take those drugs in conjunction with your test is not at all accurate.. 6 guys can cycle and maybe only 2 of them would need some estrogen control, but you dont know this until you first cycle. running an anti e or AI will also affect your gains.. and if you use too much AI your joints will suffer.. worth mentioning there is not a set number either.. .25 may be what I need per day and it may be what you need eod..

As you increase dose, you increase sides, however i have found over the years that many of my fellow bodybuilding juicers never had any need for nolva or armidex etc.. I myself do need something as the dose climbs.. this truly is an individual thing

As with any cycle be it pro steroids designers whatever, you need your pct in order before you ever start.. YOu dont make the mistake of starting a cycle and then you need an anti estrogen and now you cant find it... NO NO, its fine to have it on hand, but wait to take it.. No need in taking drugs we dont need

Then you have to look at this whole game like this.. If you are scared be it legal or fear that your test, LH and FSH wont return even with pct then stay the hell away from all of this ****.. I mean really, either man up and deal with the consequences if they happen to come along or leave it to those who are aware and willing to deal with what follows...

I have personally seen friends of mine get themselves in bad shape with chems everyone used to use that were "legal" like 4AD stacked with M1t's.. I am well aware they have been banned, but it still does not matter..

Most of the compounds you see people here using are slipping thru the legal loophole system.. they are steroids, they dont have to be converted by the liver to an active hormone, they are 17 alpha's and yet people are under the impression that they are safer than injectables.. Its funny really

I see all of thes elaborate stacks of so many different compounds.. I honestly dont get it.. Im not knocking anyone so dont get your pantys in a wad, Im just saying i have been here a long time and more or less lurk and read..

Think to yourself about the threads here everyday, this sponsored log, this one unsponsered, stacking this and that compound after compound when a simple SAFE shot of test e bi weekly would yield better results and i am positvie a hell of allot less stress on the liver and kidneys...

I have ran regular cycles of what was once considered the norm of steroids like test, deca, tren,prop, primo, halo,dbol etc etc etc as well as the designers as they have came out.. These are chemicals, not supplements and I wish people truly understood that.. I have my blood work checked every six months..and the worst blood work I ever had was after a designer cycle that i had been off of for 3 months prior to my blood test..

Be smart guys..Its not any different than our training in the gym.. More is not always better.. and simplicity usually yields better results than something elaborate..

Happy injecting

 

[PumpDogg]

sub'd :sgrin:

 

[qwerty33]

great info pump. what test would you rec for 1st cycle prop or e? also what ph did you use that messed your blood work? and did it recover?

can anyone answer this

dbol harsh on the body? and i feel it gives sides

"The active hormone in E-Stane is 1100% as anabolic and 91% as androgenic as methyl-test. This A/A ratio shows that E-Stane is one of the best available choices for recomposition and cutting cycles, especially in those looking for dramatic strength and lean muscle gains."

how does that quote make sense for epi

 

[qwerty33]

why wouldnt your test, lh or fsh return after ptc?

 

[PumpDogg]

I will give you my opinion.. I think test e would be the perfect choice for your first cycle..
why??

You can do as little as one shot per week if you really want to be cautious.. 250-500 mgs a week is fine and dandy with test e.. with prop, you should take 3 shots per week to get the effect.. so for a newbie 2 shots per week are going to be less traumatic than 3.. Besides unless you are used to this gig, you more than likely are not going to enjoy the pin cushion effect of pinning every other day.. it sucks.. and to really get the best of effect of a steroid like prop, it should be pinned every other day.. that works out to really 4 times a week, and the days will alternate each week.

Test e is dirt cheap, its available while other drugs depending on your sources are not as easily found.. you can buy legit test e for anywhere from 50-70 dollars per 10cc bottle all day long..

Its the most bang for your buck..

about the test lh and fsh not coming all the way back...

You have to remember you are taking drugs/chemicals here.. you are shutting down your system, the longer it stays down the harder it may be to get your hormone levels to return to normal.. Then there is always the possibility that it will never return to what it once was.. Now add in the fact that we are aging and as we age all of our hormone levels decline it can be a recipe for not getting back to your "normal"

Everyones normal is different.. For example I dont let my test get below around 600 ( overall level not free ) once I dip below that i can feel it.. I usually keep it between 6-800.. preferably 800 :head:

The downside to any long acting ester though, is it stays in your system for a much longer period.. If you started having bad sides with test e and wanted to stop your cycle you would have to wait for the drug to dissipate, whereas if you were pinning prop you could stop and a couple of days later the drug would no longer be giving you problems
Test e will be in you for 2 weeks following your last shot..

Then you see all this information about this new desinger being this much more potent than an old standard like test or dbol???Whatever

Proof is n the pudding yo.. All your pro bodybuilders are using all the old standards I have spoke of, along with insulin, gh, thyroid drugs, asthma drugs and a host of drugs one cant fathom..
They are not getting the way they look on designers or the latest greatest fat burner that comes out every single year..

This is a personal choice, but remember regardless of what you choose.. the legal orals or the old stand by orals and injectables they come with side effects and possible problems.. it is just the reality