Retaining mega water on M1,4

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  1. Retaining mega water on M1,4


    Fellas,

    I don't post on here but I will start more often as I, simply put, cannot stand the teenagers over at bb.com -- sucks though i come over here and I have like 5 posts. Anyway, i am probably going to catch hell from some of you as many of you will probably not believe this but here goes:

    I promised Edog that I wasn't going to take any M1,4 diol until I have taken LG's product X. That offer still stands but I couldn't help myself so last night I took 1 mL of M1,4 that I got from sledge (10 mg). I measured my arms too last night - 17.25 cold. I am currently 178 and probably right at 10% --- this is the lightest I have been in probably 3 years -- my blood pressure has also fallen to 110 over 65. Well, this morning I wake up feeling full as hell. Really really full. I haven't weighed myself for the day but...and here's where a lot of you are not going to believe me...my arms are .33 inches bigger than they were when I went to bed cold (almost 17.75 cold this morning). I feel like they are pumped all the time. I am not going to take anymore M1,4 until the product X but I just wanted to tell you all that this compound will pack on size quick but alas most of it will be water IMHO. .33 inches on my arms in 12 hours is nothing short of freakshow I must say.
    -AT


  2. It converts to dbol and I think it must convert at a high rate with the results people are getting.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by badbart
    It converts to dbol and I think it must convert at a high rate with the results people are getting.
    I disagree wholeheartedly. M 1,4 is intrinsically anabolic. M1,4 diol will yield gains on its own and does not need to be converted. Diols interact with the androgen receptor like the actual steroids do. Yes, some will convert to DBOL but, like I said, 90 percent of the gains are attributed to the Methyl-diol itself. Also, regardless of what PA says, I am very certain that 1-AD is intrinsically anabolic. It does not need to convert to 1-test to be effective. The reason that you have to take so much is because of the inactivation through the liver and it may be a weaker androgen.
    -AT

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Lakevillethor
    I disagree wholeheartedly. M 1,4 is intrinsically anabolic. M1,4 diol will yield gains on its own and does not need to be converted. Diols interact with the androgen receptor like the actual steroids do. Yes, some will convert to DBOL but, like I said, 90 percent of the gains are attributed to the Methyl-diol itself. Also, regardless of what PA says, I am very certain that 1-AD is intrinsically anabolic. It does not need to convert to 1-test to be effective. The reason that you have to take so much is because of the inactivation through the liver and it may be a weaker androgen.
    -AT
    I thought M1,4 was a dione, know one really knows its all theory. What ever it does it works and thats what matters.

  5. well, the picture on the bottle is incorrect either way. I think it actualyl shows DBOL on teh bottle.
    -AT
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  6. This comes from sledges site. "Here we have a methylated version of the boldenone precursor, 1,4diol. In this version, the methylated version of the diol pro-hormone has been used instead of the Dione." So yes it is the diol.

  7. It will not be all water weight. Drugs such as dbol and anadrol will initially put water weight on the first week, but they will help with cell volumization and supersaturation which will in turn lead to muscle gains. Water retention is key for these drugs to work well.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Lakevillethor
    .33 inches on my arms in 12 hours is nothing short of freakshow I must say.
    -AT
    It's called water retention.

    People have already had logs, including myself and proven that its a good compound. I had about the same effects. On day 3 or 4 I had already gained almost a half inch on arms caused from water alone.

  9. the structure on the label is dbol, it converts to dbol, so i thought I would put what it converts to, instead of what it is. I used the diol, not dione version as stated and i have no doubt that some of it is anabolic on its own, but what ever gets converted will be anabolic as well.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Lakevillethor
    I disagree wholeheartedly. M 1,4 is intrinsically anabolic. M1,4 diol will yield gains on its own and does not need to be converted. Diols interact with the androgen receptor like the actual steroids do. Yes, some will convert to DBOL but, like I said, 90 percent of the gains are attributed to the Methyl-diol itself. Also, regardless of what PA says, I am very certain that 1-AD is intrinsically anabolic. It does not need to convert to 1-test to be effective. The reason that you have to take so much is because of the inactivation through the liver and it may be a weaker androgen.
    -AT
    Well you can disagree but the effects seen are much more like Dbol than the intrinsic properties of M1,4diol. BK even commented that the aromatiziation of this product is much greater than expected so the logical conclusion is that it is converting into Dbol much higher than people thought.

    And where did you get this 90% figure? Its completely different with every hormone.

  11. Weeeellllll aaaaaa wwwaaaaattttteeeerrr usually comes with the use of Dbol. Come on now man, did you not think ahead of what you are taking? I ran a cutting cycle on it and it worked, water weight and bloat can be controlled, I never got any until I went to 40mg a day, then I went along with 10mg of nolva a day.

    If you don't like the product, send it to me, I will gladly use it again. I tested the product for sledge for four weeks and it was a great product. Maybe you weren't ready for that product.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Well you can disagree but the effects seen are much more like Dbol than the intrinsic properties of M1,4diol. BK even commented that the aromatiziation of this product is much greater than expected so the logical conclusion is that it is converting into Dbol much higher than people thought.

    And where did you get this 90% figure? Its completely different with every hormone.
    When you methylate the compound, you change it intrinsically and change it's anabolic properties. True, the effects are not the same as those noticed when taking 1,4 diol. However, I think methylating the compound stands for a lot more than just a good form of administration. The 90% was just me talking out of me ass --- I did not mean that literally.
    -AT

  13. If it is going to act like Dbol, then it is going to act like Dbol. What is so hard to comprehend about that? Dbol makes the majority of us retain water. M1,4ADD will do the same. End of story.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by sifu
    Weeeellllll aaaaaa wwwaaaaattttteeeerrr usually comes with the use of Dbol. Come on now man, did you not think ahead of what you are taking? I ran a cutting cycle on it and it worked, water weight and bloat can be controlled, I never got any until I went to 40mg a day, then I went along with 10mg of nolva a day.

    If you don't like the product, send it to me, I will gladly use it again. I tested the product for sledge for four weeks and it was a great product. Maybe you weren't ready for that product.
    Dude, I already said that I knew it was water weight. I don't know why everyone feels the need to point this out when I talked about it in my first post. And I never said the compound wasn't good -- I just said that I was surprised to see a .33 inch difference in my arms in less than 12 hours. I don't think I am being ignorant here -- that increase in arm size is abnormal regardless of what supps/gear you are taking.
    -AT

  15. Quote Originally Posted by sifu
    If it is going to act like Dbol, then it is going to act like Dbol. What is so hard to comprehend about that? Dbol makes the majority of us retain water. M1,4ADD will do the same. End of story.
    My point to this whole thing was the rate in which I started retaining water -- not the fact that I am retaining water. I find it amazing that I retained so much water in 12 hours that I put .33 inches on my arms. Have I made my point clear yet???
    -AT

  16. I feel the love!

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Well you can disagree but the effects seen are much more like Dbol than the intrinsic properties of M1,4diol. BK even commented that the aromatiziation of this product is much greater than expected so the logical conclusion is that it is converting into Dbol much higher than people thought.

    And where did you get this 90% figure? Its completely different with every hormone.
    Also, how does anyone know the intrinsic properties of M1,4diol??? The **** has not been out long engough to make a valid guess. The intrinsic properties of M1,4diol may just be the same as DBOL and therefore, while everyone is thinking that it converts with a high affinity because of the effects, it may just be that, intrinsically, the compound is yielding gains that are the same as DBOL.

  18. Well I know that myself and the other testers never experianced that, I didn't retain water the whole time on it, except for puffy nipples when I upped it to 40mg a day.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by sifu
    Well I know that myself and the other testers never experianced that, I didn't retain water the whole time on it, except for puffy nipples when I upped it to 40mg a day.
    Well, if God just decided to give me bigger arms overnight I should take it where I can get it then...right?
    -AT

  20. Do not let one individual's experience discourage your usage. People respond differently.

  21. Hey man, I say go for it. I loved the product. I would take size gains of anything any day.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Lakevillethor
    Fellas,

    my arms are .33 inches bigger than they were when I went to bed cold (almost 17.75 cold this morning). I feel like they are pumped all the time. I am not going to take anymore M1,4 until the product X but I just wanted to tell you all that this compound will pack on size quick but alas most of it will be water IMHO. .33 inches on my arms in 12 hours is nothing short of freakshow I must say.
    -AT
    I wish it was like that for me. I'v been taking 20mg (2mls) for 2 weeks now, and I have gained nothing. I seem to be immune to aromatization. I never got water weight from transdermal 4ad either.

    Greenguy

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Lakevillethor
    When you methylate the compound, you change it intrinsically and change it's anabolic properties. True, the effects are not the same as those noticed when taking 1,4 diol. However, I think methylating the compound stands for a lot more than just a good form of administration. The 90% was just me talking out of me ass --- I did not mean that literally.
    -AT
    Yes I know. Generally you increase its anabolic potential but decrease its androgenic effects. In most case the increase anabolic effect is from methylating its estrogen metabolite (as with Dbol, methyltest). In this case it would be 17 methyl E2 from the target hormone (Dbol). SO theres your water retention and it doesn't take much (HRT doses are in mcg's). Thats how potent it is.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Lakevillethor
    Also, how does anyone know the intrinsic properties of M1,4diol??? The **** has not been out long engough to make a valid guess. The intrinsic properties of M1,4diol may just be the same as DBOL and therefore, while everyone is thinking that it converts with a high affinity because of the effects, it may just be that, intrinsically, the compound is yielding gains that are the same as DBOL.
    How can you have a diol that aromatizes?
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    How can you have a diol that aromatizes?
    Although I am VERY familiar with estradiol and testosterone chemically, I don't know the exact mechanism by which aromatase works. To transform testosterone into estradiol, I believe the following needs to occur:

    1. the loss of the 19th carbon
    2. double bonds placed at 1,2 and 5,6
    3. the double bonded oxygen at 3, replaced with hydroxyl

    I hope everyone is not assuming that the only way you can gain water weight is through estrogen conversion. On the contrary, there are steroid receptors in the kidneys that help re-absorb water --- ie aldosterone and other mineralcortico steroids. My assumption is that a lot of teh water abosrption, at this stage in the game, is due to those effects not estrogen conversion.

    I understand what you are saying though, Bobo.
    -Andrew Thoresen

  26. I dont believe you can. that is what would make it a better choice over the dione. The bigger question is the water retention intra or inter cellular. That makes a difference as well.

  27. Aldosterone is one of the mechanisms by which estrogen causes water retention. Very potent adnrogens can cause water retention through other pathways but M1,4diol intrinsically is not as potent as say, M1T.

    AVP agonists do not cause water retetion like estrogen would. If that was the case Nolva would cause drastic water rentention since it is an AVP agonist.

    As a diol it cannot aromatize. Its impossible. The only other means that it can aromatize is through its target hormone, in which in has a high conversion rate anyway and the bioavailability is drastically increased.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Aldosterone is one of the mechanisms by which estrogen causes water retention. Very potent adnrogens can cause water retention through other pathways but M1,4diol intrinsically is not as potent as say, M1T.

    AVP agonists do not cause water retetion like estrogen would. If that was the case Nolva would cause drastic water rentention since it is an AVP agonist.

    As a diol it cannot aromatize. Its impossible. The only other means that it can aromatize is through its target hormone, in which in has a high conversion rate anyway and the bioavailability is drastically increased.
    So, with all that in mind, are you coming to the conclusion that M1,4DIOL must be converting to DBOL with high affinity and then to methylestradiol, causing water retention. All of this happening in 12 hours??? Is that what you are saying?
    -AT

  29. Quote Originally Posted by Lakevillethor
    My assumption is that a lot of teh water abosrption, at this stage in the game, is due to those effects not estrogen conversion.

    I understand what you are saying though, Bobo.
    -Andrew Thoresen
    I definetly disagree with that. Given that conversion rate is relavtively high, bioavailability is increased, and the fact that 1,4diol cannot aromatize, the only logical conclusion is that its coming from its target hormone.

    I don't beleive it would cause the water retention as M1T because its not as potent and doesn't metabolize into 17 methyl DHT.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by Designer Supps
    I dont believe you can. that is what would make it a better choice over the dione. The bigger question is the water retention intra or inter cellular. That makes a difference as well.
    Just so I am clear, I want to say that I think the product is good. I am not bashing it here by any means. BTW, what is the overunder on my weight gain in one day on the compound - I am going to guess, with an arm swing of .33 inches, 3 pounds. Yes, I respond unlike anyone else on this ****.
    -AT
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