Safer M1T Cycles
- 01-31-2004, 06:50 PM
Safer M1T Cycles
I'm four days in to my first M1T cycle right now (10mg day for four weeks). I've been doing a lot of reading, and I've come up with a few possible ways to make the cycle safer and recovery more efficient. Like to hear input.
First, since M1T is so hard on the liver, would it make sense replace M1T with 1T for a few days every week during the cycle? This would essentially give your liver a break and allow some recovery while still staying on cycle. For instance, each week you could take M1T on days 1-4, and then on days 5-7 take comparable doses of 1T instead.
Second, during the first week of PCT, does it make sense to take a dose of oral 4-AD in the morning? This would increase test levels during the day, which would prevent muscle loss and feeling like ****. But 4-AD and test levels would have returned to baseline by evening, when LH hormone is released. Thus, you could essentially trick your HTPA into recovering while still maintaining adequate test levels during the day.
Does this make sense?
- 02-01-2004, 01:29 PM
Originally Posted by savagery
4-AD would increase your test levels, but it would not stimulate the release of LH. In fact, it would continue to supress your HPTA as 4-AD is a potent PH also. You will not be able to trick your HPTA. Get yourself some nolva and do 4 weeks of PCT(40mg, 20mg, 20mg, 20mg).
Last edited by rookie88; 02-01-2004 at 01:46 PM.
- 02-01-2004, 01:38 PM
I'm not saying that 4-AD would stimulate the release of LH. However, it's my understanding that LH is released primarily at night, around 2-3am. That's when your body "measures" the amount of androgens and estrogens and releases LH for the next day.
Because 4-AD is a short acting oral, it seems like you could take a single dose in the morning, and by midnight your 4-AD and test levels would be completely back to normal. In this case, it's doubtful that the 4-AD would cause additional suppression. But, it would ensure adequate test levels during the first week of your PCT (which, of course, would include Nolva).
Originally Posted by rookie88
02-01-2004, 03:04 PM
The 4AD trans is the way to go.Originally Posted by savagery
02-01-2004, 03:33 PM
Typically, 4AD trans is more effective. But in this instance, it's actually better to use the oral. For what I'm proposing, we do not want a sustained release that would last all day and partly into the evening. We want the 4AD and test increase to be completely gone by the evening so as not to inhibit LH release.
02-02-2004, 08:57 AM
I would say No as the 17aa changes the properties of the compound. (Chemo, Bobo and others may be able to elaborate on this)Originally Posted by savagery
02-02-2004, 09:10 PM
Yeah from what I've read it seems that 1-Test isn't as good as M1T. I wouldn't doubt that they are qualitatively different. Still, it might make sense to replace the M1T with 1-Test for a few days every so often to give your liver a break, so to speak.
I was talking to my father, a physician, about liver damage. He says permanent liver damage, cirrhosis, most often occurs after many days or weeks of assault. Initially, damaging compounds (such as alcohol) cause what's called "fatty liver". At this stage, the damage isn't permanent, and given a little time the liver can heal itself and go back to normal. But once cirrhosis occurs, the damage is mostly permanent. Someone could develop fatty liver twenty times, but as long as they allow recovery before cirrhosis occurs, there's no permanent damage.
In other words, it isn't a big deal if you get fatty liver while taking M1T, but you want to avoid cirrhosis. By replacing M1T with test for a few days every week, you give your liver a chance to recover. Even if you're still doing M1T 80% of the time, the 20% in between can make a big difference by preventing the constant onslaught that's often necessary for cirrhosis to occur. Sure, the 1-Test is different than M1T. But at a high dose, that 20% when you're taking 1-test probably isn't going to harm your gains.
Anyway, just a thought that occured as I was discussing the issue with my father. I don't know too much about the steroid chemistry, so I may be way off base.
Originally Posted by NO MERCY
02-03-2004, 12:17 AM
You're doing a ton of speculating. We don't even know the half-life of M1T. If you're dosing twice a day, you're most likely building up a fair amount of M1T in your system. The "break" you're talking about wouldn't be much of a break at all as the compound is still in your system. I really don't think a couple days here and there is going to make any difference.
02-03-2004, 03:14 AM
Yes, I'm definitely doing a ton of speculating. Nevertheless, I think it's something to think about if you're concerned about liver damge.
Let's put it this way. Obviously, the way that M1T and alcohol affect your liver are very different. But, for the purpose of analogy, let's assume they're not. Drinking 30 days straight is MUCH harder on your liver than drinking 5 days of 7 for four weeks straight. You'd think that drinking 5 our of 7 days for a month you'd do 5/7 as much damage as if you drank every day for a month. In fact, drinking every day for a month you're doing MANY TIMES the amount of damage that you're doing if you're drinking 5 of 7 days.
Originally Posted by Onslaught
02-03-2004, 03:47 AM
4AD whether oral or trans will farther suppress your HPTA.
02-03-2004, 04:00 AM
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Nope, it doesn't work that way. Taking 4AD in the morning will suppress you. The normal levels of testosterone for a normal human male that are actually cirulating is around 8-12mg/day. Thats the high end. Anything you take above that will suppress you whether its test, estrogen, DHT, Dbol, Var, etc....Originally Posted by savagery
Next you have take into account metabolites which are suppressive also. Estrogens half-life is specualted to be much longer (some studies show 3 days!) so even if the 4AD is cleared from your system you still could have circualting estrogen, DHT, Test, etc....which WILL cause suppression.
LH pulses are constantly all day long with the largest being about 3 hours into sleep along with GH and host of other hormones. You body measures the amount of hormones present all day, all the time.
Nolva works by creating a hormone deficit which in turn will cause GnRH to be secreted which in turn stimulates LH pulses which in turn stimulate Leydig cells to produce testosterone. Taking any hormone will bascially trigger the feedback loop making Nolva innefctive as a recovery agent. The ONLY thing that can bypass this feedback loop ios HCG.
Suppression occur on many levels with many different mechanisms. People who come up we these bridge theories do not take into account all these pathways and seem to focus on the target hormone.
After all the facts are looked at, the morning dose bridge is bogus with whatever you take.
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02-03-2004, 09:53 AM
I understand that you're trying to make an analogy, but it still doesn't hold up for the very reasons I gave before. I'll elaborate when I get back from the gym.
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