blood test result and why is my test so low?

  1. supreme being
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    blood test result and why is my test so low?


    i was 3 wks into a cycle of [ m1t@20mg ed / 4ad@900mg ed for wk 1] ., then [wk 2 and 3 i did m1t@20mg ed /4ad@900mg ed / m 1,4add@ 40mg ed] and had blood work done my liver values that were elevated were as follows...........
    SGOT 61-----norm. 13-39
    SGPT 121---NORM . 7-52
    TOTAL TEST 83

    THESE ARE ALL DONE WITHIN 3 WKS TAKING ORALS , I KNOW THERES SHUTDOWN BUT I THOUGHT THE 4 AD WAS SUPPOSED TO HELP MORE THAN THIS, OR AM I WRONG I AM STRONG RIGHT NOW AND PUMPED ALSO HAVE GOOD RESULTS;BUT I DONT KNOW. ANYWAY IM STOPPING DUE TO LIVER RESULTS, MY DOC TOLD ME TO FOR MY OWN GOOD.
    WHY IS THE TEST SO LOW? BTW DONT ANYONE BOTHER STACKING M1T/M1,4ADD ITS TO TOXIC EVEN FOR A WEEK.

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    4-AD removes sides, but it contributes to shutdown. (They both provide artificial sources of test.)
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    The 4 AD does not help with the shutdown, that is what the nolva is for.
    Liver values will go crazy on any AAS not just M1T but it is harder on it because of the structure of it.. that is what we have been trying to tell everyone that it hard on the liver.
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    would it be of any benefit to continue and add an "AI" to stop any test from being converted to estrogen? to try to get the most out of this b4 i end my cycle.....or just stop because of liver-----------also are these liver results typ. for someone useing aas or is ther a real prob. coming real soon?
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    How long were you planning on staying on? if only 4 weeks, just finish it up and do the nolva thing post cycle, M1t for long periods of time is not a good idea from what i've been reading.

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    i just would like to finish my cycle, b'cause it just kicked in three days ago im strong, pumped and ready to go ,but the doc says no bcause of liver vals. i only want 1 wk, does anybody think or know if there too high to finish ?
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    Manbeast is a knowledgable bro so i would take his advice. It is only 1 week. After that take the proper PCT with a good dose of NAC and Milk Thistle Extract. Then get blood work done again to see if everything is back to normal.
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    Is SGOT & SGPT the same as AST and ALT? If they are I think those values are not very high. Finish your cycle you should b fine. It is intersting how low your test is even with the 4-AD. Maybe 4-AD dosen't convert as much into test as we think.
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    SGOT (AST) and SGPT (ALT) enzyme levels are released during normal function of the liver. These levels increase as the liver function is increased, such as by the use of methylated compounds. These same enzymes are also release, more so the SGOT (AST), from other tissue such as the kidneys, brain, heart and MUSCLE and can be elevated by the act of body building alone.

    I had my blood work done a couple years ago during a 'break' in my work out routine due to an injury and my liver value were as follow: AST - 21 and ALT - 24. Last year I had another blood work up completed this time while I was well into my work out program and my liver value had increased to AST - 35 and ALT - 53. I was not on any 'supplementation' during either blood test period...not even creatine (Which I don't repond to anyway.) and my liver enzyme value were increased basically from the increased actions of the muscle damaging and repairing itself from my work outs.

    I would assume that during any type of AAS cycle the increased muscle activity alone would play a part in increase liver enzyme values, but to what extent of the overall figure I could not tell you.

    Mild to moderate increaseses are common and usually fall into the range of twice the upper limits to several hundred units and are generally treated by removing contributing factors such as alcohol, medications, obesity, and so forth. Liver enzymes will then usually return to a normal levels, in healthy individuals, in a few weeks to a few months.

    While I don't personally condone the stacking of methylated substances I don't think your values are out of an expected range, in my 'unmedical' opinion, and shouldn't be harmful in short periods. I do think continued stacking of these compounds could likely lead to future issues and as repeatedly suggested by many of those with greater knowledge...Don't Stack Methyls!

    I would at the very least suggest when your cycle is completed, your PCT done, and you've had a little time 'off' that you have your blood work done again for your own peace of mind and to make sure your levels have normalized.
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    manbeast read supersoldiers thread, long m1t cycle at high doseages with blood work, granted not everyone is the same though
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    2g: I read it, I was just pointing out that for the average individual, especially one who is worrying about his liver values, a 4 week cycle would be tops IMHO.

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    Well,
    This supports the theory of 2 methylated substances at once. Ive seen normal liver values on m1t alone. but this is the first with 2 methyls. Do a search, they told us not to stack 2 methyls.
    Maybe M1,4 is really harsh.

    But the question is, why isnt he showing the test levels from the 4ad conversion.? Would it not elevate blood levels of testosterone?
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    If you continue, you need to atleast cut one methyl from the cycle.
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    liver values were anticipated, but not test levels. i think it falls in line with your natural test being stutoff because when the body detects to much test it stops produceing which i also sort of expected. even though ill not stack methyls in the future this was an experiment to see on a short term basis of how toxic these 2 compounds are together,and to see for myself what the results would be. i will continue my cycle but just 1 methyl/ 1tes ethergels for added zeal.btw i have read all threads on not stacking methyls " this was just a test".hairline was fine dureing cycle and correct pct, nac milk th.,ect. will be used daily. also 4 ad was also inthe stak at 900mged for the whole cycle so far with no ante "e" so use your own judgement on these aromatizeable compounds, but be prepared !
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    Quote Originally Posted by WATERLOGGED
    i was 3 wks into a cycle of [ m1t@20mg ed / 4ad@900mg ed for wk 1] ., then [wk 2 and 3 i did m1t@20mg ed /4ad@900mg ed / m 1,4add@ 40mg ed] and had blood work done my liver values that were elevated were as follows...........
    SGOT 61-----norm. 13-39
    SGPT 121---NORM . 7-52
    TOTAL TEST 83

    THESE ARE ALL DONE WITHIN 3 WKS TAKING ORALS , I KNOW THERES SHUTDOWN BUT I THOUGHT THE 4 AD WAS SUPPOSED TO HELP MORE THAN THIS, OR AM I WRONG I AM STRONG RIGHT NOW AND PUMPED ALSO HAVE GOOD RESULTS;BUT I DONT KNOW. ANYWAY IM STOPPING DUE TO LIVER RESULTS, MY DOC TOLD ME TO FOR MY OWN GOOD.
    WHY IS THE TEST SO LOW? BTW DONT ANYONE BOTHER STACKING M1T/M1,4ADD ITS TO TOXIC EVEN FOR A WEEK.
    You should read Supersoldiers thread entitled "This is your liver". His test values went to almost nothing very rapidly on 20mg M1T without the M1,4ad or 4ad.

    Also, your liver values are only moderately elevated. SGPT (ALT) is more specific to liver damage. SGPT/ALT is only released by the death of liver cells. Some cells die a natural death each day in a normal person. Elevated values beyond normal indicate increased numbers of liver cells dying off.

    That being said, if you have an otherwise healthy liver, I don't think a four week cycle with those values will cause a permanent problem. If you continue to do cycles of methyls (on/off, on/off) throughout the year, eventually you will develope liver disease, probably over a period of years, esp. if you drink alcohol.

    The bottom line is the liver is a large organ, and elevated liver enzyme values indicate elevated rates of cellular damage. You have to kill off many liver cells before you will develop actual loss of liver function and symproms such as jaundice etc.

    New liver cell are created as you recover, but they are do not add to your livers functional ability because they do not grow in the neccessary geometric patterns to perform the livers functions.

    This has been explained pretty well by a medical doctor who posts on gotfina.com as "aciddoctor". He is down on methyls and only injects non-methylated hormone esters.

    I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying don't do it often, maybe two 4 week cycles a year max. And always do follow blood tests to ensure recovery.

    Greenguy
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    Just throwing some numbers at you that might clear up the whole test thing. Oral 4-ad has been speculated as being bioavailable between 5 - 15%(leaning far more towards 5%), which means that on the low end of the scale 900mg a day = 45mg of 4-ad, per day. At the high end, you're looking at 135mg per day. Thats between 315mg - 915mg per week. BC's articles claim a whopping 15.76% conversion to test, so rounded to 16 thats 50.4 - 151.2 of test per week. Sounds like your test level results are right on track.

    And if I'm totally off-base with that, someone feel free to correct me. I do chemistry, but that doesn't mean I'm all that snazzy with math
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenguy
    You should read Supersoldiers thread entitled "This is your liver". His test values went to almost nothing very rapidly on 20mg M1T without the M1,4ad or 4ad.

    Also, your liver values are only moderately elevated. SGPT (ALT) is more specific to liver damage. SGPT/ALT is only released by the death of liver cells. Some cells die a natural death each day in a normal person. Elevated values beyond normal indicate increased numbers of liver cells dying off.

    That being said, if you have an otherwise healthy liver, I don't think a four week cycle with those values will cause a permanent problem. If you continue to do cycles of methyls (on/off, on/off) throughout the year, eventually you will develope liver disease, probably over a period of years, esp. if you drink alcohol.

    The bottom line is the liver is a large organ, and elevated liver enzyme values indicate elevated rates of cellular damage. You have to kill off many liver cells before you will develop actual loss of liver function and symproms such as jaundice etc.

    New liver cell are created as you recover, but they are do not add to your livers functional ability because they do not grow in the neccessary geometric patterns to perform the livers functions.

    This has been explained pretty well by a medical doctor who posts on gotfina.com as "aciddoctor". He is down on methyls and only injects non-methylated hormone esters.

    I'm not saying don't do it, I'm saying don't do it often, maybe two 4 week cycles a year max. And always do follow blood tests to ensure recovery.

    Greenguy
    I've read the same thing, about the liver healing but its never as good as it was before youi abused it.
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    Maybe 4-Ad is active on its own and dosen't convert to test at as high of a rate as we think. A strange thing for me and 4-AD is that even a little bit of 4-AD which is two squirts from 4-Aderm will give me prostate problems which dosen't seem right if it converts to test, my test levels should hardly be above normal at that rate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by badbart
    Maybe 4-Ad is active on its own and dosen't convert to test at as high of a rate as we think. A strange thing for me and 4-AD is that even a little bit of 4-AD which is two squirts from 4-Aderm will give me prostate problems which dosen't seem right if it converts to test, my test levels should hardly be above normal at that rate.
    I think you're probably right here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by badbart
    Maybe 4-Ad is active on its own and dosen't convert to test at as high of a rate as we think. A strange thing for me and 4-AD is that even a little bit of 4-AD which is two squirts from 4-Aderm will give me prostate problems which dosen't seem right if it converts to test, my test levels should hardly be above normal at that rate.
    You got it badbart. It is almost blatantly obvious that there must be intrinsic properties of 4-ad hard at work if people getting the equivalent of maybe 70mg of test conversion per week (assuming 5g 4-ad in a 120 oz bottle dosed at 2 squirts per day ~500mg 4ad per week absorbed) can still see noteworthy and sometimes exceptional response.
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    waterlogged, how many other cycles have you completed prior to this one?

    three compounds, with two methylated, at what seems to me above average doses would be a bit much imo. good luck with the rest of your cycle and pct.
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    i have done 6 cycles within a 5 year period, im i weigh 225,42 .have been weight training fo 20 yrs. this cycle was only done with 4ad/m1t at reasonable dosages for my weight and age , the other methyl was an experiment during a 2 week period to judge the toxicity of these two compounds for a short duration with blood tests scheduled b4 the start.
    i beleive i stated that above somewhere.
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    You're liver values aren't really that high. They will increase while on methyls, as well as other AAS. If they were still high say 4-6 weeks post cycle then you might have something to worry about. As far as the testosterone being so low, I would imagine it's because you're dosing the 4AD orally and not Transdermal/IM. If the 4ad does in fact convert to testosterone, it will register in the machine that tests the serum whether it's exogenous or endogenous.
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    Why are people still suprised that test levels are low after a 4AD cycle? This is BASIC information. You should knwo this stuff before you ever do ANYTHING.

    Waterlogged if you didn't know these basic things you shouldn't be taken any methylated substances at all. You need to do more research.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Why are people still suprised that test levels are low after a 4AD cycle? This is BASIC information. You should knwo this stuff before you ever do ANYTHING.

    Waterlogged if you didn't know these basic things you shouldn't be taken any methylated substances at all. You need to do more research.
    Isn't he still on cycle, if not I miss read.
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    Quote Originally Posted by supersoldier
    You're liver values aren't really that high. They will increase while on methyls, as well as other AAS. If they were still high say 4-6 weeks post cycle then you might have something to worry about.
    Wrong. Elevated enzymes do NOT tell you the whole story. In fact they don't even tell a small percentage of the story. Damage can be caused even though enzyme levels are low, such as hepatic tumors. Blood tests will NOT show this. Mehtylated substances increase the risk of these things happening drastically. Its good that people are taking blood tests but it really isn't telling you anything. Its telling you your liver is working harder than it normally is but in no way does this show damage (if its occurred). Stress on the lvier can easily cause problems with other internal organs withouth even effecting your liver so relying on enzyme levels is pointless. Thats just showing you something that is already known. Methylated substances stress the liver. Blood test are a good way to monitor blood levels but just because they return to normal doesn't mean damage hasn't occurred. Be safe people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by badbart
    Isn't he still on cycle, if not I miss read.

    I thought he finished. If not then my mistake and please forgive ME not reading correctly. Hey, it happens
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Wrong. Elevated enzymes do NOT tell you the whole story. In fact they don't even tell a small percentage of the story. Damage can be caused even though enzyme levels are low, such as hepatic tumors. Blood tests will NOT show this. Mehtylated substances increase the risk of these things happening drastically. Its good that people are taking blood tests but it really isn't telling you anything. Its telling you your liver is working harder than it normally is but in no way does this show damage (if its occurred). Stress on the lvier can easily cause problems with other internal organs withouth even effecting your liver so relying on enzyme levels is pointless. Thats just showing you something that is already known. Methylated substances stress the liver. Blood test are a good way to monitor blood levels but just because they return to normal doesn't mean damage hasn't occurred. Be safe people.
    If your wondering, this was the case with Anadrol. Levels showed normal liver functions even though hepatic tumors formed, hence the use of Anadrol was discontinued for anemia patients.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    If your wondering, this was the case with Anadrol. Levels showed normal liver functions even though hepatic tumors formed, hence the use of Anadrol was discontinued for anemia patients.
    Scary, this is why I haven't run any Mehtylated steriods yet. I'd much rather pin it then ruin my liver.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    I thought he finished. If not then my mistake and please forgive ME not reading correctly. Hey, it happens

    Why do you think his test is low if he's running 4-AD?
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    Well in all fairness it was used very long peroids of time but the dosages were far less (usually 20-30mg/day), so there is concern. I tihnk the moral of the story is, don't rely on enzyme levels to tell the whole story.
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    4AD will shut you down all by itself, there aren't any exogenous hormones that won't, no matter how slight or intense, they all shut you down, it's just your body trying to maintain some form of homeostasis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManBeast
    4AD will shut you down all by itself, there aren't any exogenous hormones that won't, no matter how slight or intense, they all shut you down, it's just your body trying to maintain some form of homeostasis.

    ManBeast
    We're wondering why his testosterone is low while ON 4ad, since 4ad should convert to testosterone in the body. The instruments that test total testoterone will pick up all testosterone whether endogenous or exogenous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by supersoldier
    We're wondering why his testosterone is low while ON 4ad, since 4ad should convert to testosterone in the body. The instruments that test total testoterone will pick up all testosterone whether endogenous or exogenous.
    I think several of us, myself included, thought he was post cycle based on the way WATERLOGGED phrased his first post. Anyway, although I am no prohormone expert, I recall that the worst way to take 4-AD is orally. (It was oral 4-AD, wasn't it?) There may have been very little conversion.
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    I definitely think it's because of oral dosing as well. ALL ORALS ARE CRAP, unless they're methylated, IMO. Sorry for you fans of 1,4 Andro That being said, not all methylated hormones are da BoMb ShIZniT either .
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