Nipps are killing me!!
- 06-11-2009, 11:17 AM
Nipps are killing me!!
Hey guys! Been reading a lot on this forum and decided to do an 8 week complete cycle of P-Plex and M-drol. Im 26 and this is not my first prohormone cycle.
Ok, on to my question...I noticed that on the 3rd week of the cycle, when I first bridged the 10 grams of M-drol into the 30 grams of P-Plex, my nipples got sensitive and puffy.
I have been taking 20 grams of Nolvadex daily that I had on hand. Been taking the Nolvadex for 7 days but the nipples havent changed. I also noticed that when I squeeze them a little bit of liquid comes out, but a very small amount.
Should I stop the cycle and just do the PCT to include the rest of my Nolvadex and Inhibiter E? Or should I continue to take the M-drol and hope that the nipples get back to normal?
One last question, why does this happen to the nipples during the cycle? I always thought this would happen if you didnt post cycle correctly due to the estrogen?
Thanks in advance for any repplies. I have ordered a bottle of p5p in hopes that it will help.
- 06-11-2009, 11:51 AM
Might throw in some low dose adex, .5 ED for a wk/ then .5 EOD for another week. Will reduce estrogen, without killing it. And in the absence of an estrogen rich environment your nipples will stop leaking.
06-11-2009, 02:38 PM
06-11-2009, 02:44 PM
its a prescription AI. ED means EveryDay. if you can't get your hands on adex, you should get an AI right away. the symtoms you have are from excess estro, you need yto lower it ASAP, like yesterday....not to freak you out or anything
06-11-2009, 03:26 PM
What other AI do you guys recommend that does not require a prescription? Already got a letter in the mail about nolvadex because it is a controlled substance.
Is the 20g of nolvadex a day that I'm taking now not enough? I have about 20 more 10g pills of nolvadex and 2 bottles of inhibitor E and p5p coming in the mail. Please help!
06-11-2009, 04:00 PM
Ok I just ordered some 6-oxo and p5p. How much and how long should I take this stuff? Should I still take my p-plex and mdrol??
06-11-2009, 04:13 PM
concentrate on the AI for now. when will it be to you? personally, unless it's getting eorse, i would stay on till you can start a proper pct.
06-11-2009, 04:36 PM
It's getting a little better since I started taking 20g of nolvadex daily for the past 7 days. I also threw in 2 pills of inhibitor E cause I was freaking out. I have since stopped takes the p-plex and am just taking 20g of mdrol daily. The 6oxo will be here in 3-5 days.
I still don't understand why my body is producing estrogen in the middle of my cycle. I thought these things happened if you didn't properly PCT.
06-11-2009, 06:23 PM
You have excess estrogen because the PPlex aromatizes. It is chemically able to interact with the Aromatase enzyme you have in your body. ALL hormones interact with enzymes which alter the structure allowing it to convert into another hormone and exert that effect. So PPlex enters your bloodstream and passes through the liver and targets specific tissues in the body (like muscle tissue). Once in that target tissue, there may be another enzyme, like Alpha Reductase which converts the hormone into another, stronger target hormone or an enzyme like Aromatase which converts it into a completely different hormone, like Estrogen. Or even Progesterone if you use a 19-nor product. Both Estrogen and/or Progesterone can cause the symptoms you describe. Actually, lactating is usually associated with Progestin more so. It is unlikely that Superdrol is contributing. Technically, Superdrol is already a target hormone (meaning it is reduced by the enzyme Alpha Reductase). It does not further strengthen nor does it interact with Aromatase and convert into Estrogen. Some people claim gyno with it (rarely) and I think it may be because the SDrol binds well and allows more of the other pro hormones/hormones to take the aromatase
route. Stick with the Nolvadex for now. It takes a bit to work and reverse symptoms. Now you know you are suseptible, so plan cycles with DRY compounds or use AI through complete cycle to prevent gyno, rather than a SERM to treat it. Sorry so long winded, I'm bored and dropped a 25lb plate on my foot yesterday, so I'm laying around and taking the time to interact on here. Good Luck.
06-11-2009, 06:41 PM
plex and m-drol at the same time?
that will for shure give u some gyno.
ive read that pplex bloat is not entirely estrogen, it may not convert that much
m-drol definately does not convert.
But estrogen isnt the only pathway for these gyno/puffiness problems, m-drol alone get give you gyno.
I personally drop the m-drol. since u just started it,no? and thats when u started to get the symtons?
take some ai like the other guys said, and then u might want to cut the cycle short.
better safe than sorry.
06-11-2009, 07:14 PM
Thanks for the information guys. RSR sorry to her about your foot. Thanks for that great explanation. So this is what I'm going to do; I'm going to run 20g of nolvadex daily for the next week. I'm
Also going to take the 6-oxo when it comes in througout the rest of my cycle. Im dropping the p-plex and doing 30g of mdrol for 3 more weeks. Then I'll start my 3 week PCT with 6-oxo, p5p, PCT treatment, and inhibited E. Please let me know if this sounds like a good plan. Thanks again guys
06-11-2009, 07:23 PM
06-11-2009, 08:08 PM
Actually, since PPlex nor Sdrol apparently don't aromatize, what are the "backdoor" methods for gyno to occur??? People do get it on these once in a while. Increased Igf1 is even thought to cause gyno. Weird. I only get it from Dbol.
06-11-2009, 08:40 PM
Sorry to hear about your gyno issues. While skimming this thread, I noticed you asked what adex was, and nobody even told you the unabbreviated name. It's Arimidex, also known as Anastrozole.
06-11-2009, 09:50 PM
Ok guys I'm a little confused. Some say to stop the cycle and start my PCT while others say it's ok to stay on track with the mdrol. I don't want to end
up with bitch tits, but I did spend 150 dollars on all this stuff.
06-11-2009, 09:53 PM
06-11-2009, 10:01 PM
06-12-2009, 10:52 AM
06-12-2009, 03:45 PM
Thought I'd chime in here, as we just had great discussion about this recently: There's some evidence now that SD and Anadrol which aren't supposed to aromatize, cause gyno by 1)lowering SHBG too far and 2) releasing Estrone Sulfate that WAS bound to SHBG and was therefore inactive...In the presence of an aromatizing AAS (maybe PPlex does aromatize) or even without it in some cases, this could spell trouble.
Many androgens lower SHBG to varying degrees, some just lower BINDING ability not lower the total SHBG itself, (Anadrol lowers total SHBG amount, Proviron binds SHBG, making it inactive, but not the total amount). This is sometimes good, as lower/inactive SHBG means more active AAS/natural Test in the system. But...
The lowering of SHBG has 2 negatives: "the backdoor"
First, SHBG is breast tissue protective, i.e. blunts or stops the ability to make gyno.
Second: Lowering SHBG also frees up Estrone Sulfate, a strong estrogen, from it's already naturally bound state...
So you got low SHBG, (maybe high estrogen), and unbound Estrone Sulfate, which is a long acting Estrogen, not a good combo, mate.
Were I in your position, I'd use:
Transdermal Form because it doesnt affect SHBG level, oral Formestane does.
(I'd use Oral Form for a Test cycle and for most aromatizing compounds, Transdermal for Anadrol or SD or 19-nors/Designer Trens where it's better that SHBG remains higher, if possible)
Word has it that AI's lower SHBG and can cause estrogen sensitivity to boot, making matters worse on cycle. How this applies to PPlex, I dunno. If it aromatizes, perhaps another AI would be OK to stop this, despite lowering SHBG.
I'd still go Transdermal Formestane and Nolva, with a Clomid/Nolva PCT
06-12-2009, 03:58 PM
im sorry, are you taking 20g (as in grams) or 20 mg (milligrams) of Nolvadex everyday?..im confused throughout the conversation.
06-12-2009, 04:11 PM
Wow thanks for the explanations guys. My nipps are getting back to normal since I started taking 20g of nolvadex and some inhibitor E. I discontinued the pplex and mdrol. Not messing with prohormones anymore. You have to be a lab scientist to get the perfect cycle without sides. Back to creatine and nos for me. And I gained 15 pounds on the pplex too.
06-12-2009, 04:13 PM
I'm taking two tablets of nolvadex per day. I'm at work and don't have them with me. But I could have sworn it was grams.
06-12-2009, 04:18 PM
ok if your taking the tabs, its definetly ok, and its milligrams my friend,.....good luck, glad your feeling better.
06-12-2009, 04:39 PM
Thanks john. I'm gonna run 6oxo, p5p, nolavadex, inhibitor E, liver assist, and lots of water for 3 weeks as my PCT. Please let me know if I'm missing anything.
06-12-2009, 06:07 PM
06-12-2009, 06:22 PM
06-12-2009, 06:28 PM
Am I the only one worried about the liver in question and lipids? A 8 weeker of pplex and mdrol sounds like about the worst you can do to your self. Not really baby-doses either. Hope you end up fine bro and to avoid chock, dont do bloodwork for a few years and never drink alcohol again.
06-12-2009, 11:59 PM
06-13-2009, 12:02 AM
Just wanted to update you guys. Tits are almost back to normal. That nolvadex is some good stuff. Thanks for all the help on here guys. Great forum an help.
06-13-2009, 03:40 AM
Excellent, glad to hear it. Yeah, the liver is a concern, so keep that liver assist and water coming in! And eat those carbs to help with cortisol control!
I've got a few questions, if you don't mind, PMiranda...
So your total time on was about 4 weeks and you gained 15lbs? That's pretty good.
How were your strength gains from the PPlex?
What other PH's have you run, prior to this cycle?
I know this experience put you off PH's, which is fine, but IMO they can be run properly, relatively safely. One just has to do a bit of research on each compound, duration and support/PCT supps. It's half the fun, Man!
Keep us posted about your recovery in PCT. For example, how is your libido and how much of the 15 lbs you keep?
Glad you're getting better, PMiranda.
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