Increasing Nitric oxide?
- 01-24-2004, 03:44 PM
Increasing Nitric oxide?
Hey bros, got a question from a guy, had no clue what to say hehe. Here's what he asked.
"Does cilias work by the same mechanism as viagra? That is, does it increase
Nitric Oxide in the body? We're thinking about this from a training
and vascularity perspective."
Anyone know? Thanks!
- 01-24-2004, 04:08 PM
I have personally tried 50mg Viagra before a wo. I got the pump of my life. Only bad sides was a slight headach and I felt winded after intensly hitting the weights. I'm not sure about Cilias, but here is some more info on Viagra and a homebrew NO type product by another bro from BBC.
After reading all of the threads about NO2, NOX2, NOS, and the home brews, I thought I'd share my home brew with everyone.
I first became interested in this type of thing when I read a number of review on the great pumps working out using sildenafil citrate (Viagra).
100mg CNIDIUM monnieri
100mg XANTHOPARMELIA scabrosa
Both herbs are proported to inhibit PDE-5 enzyme that binds to and breaks down cGMP. All I can tell you is that I get an incredible pump when I take it 30-40 minutes before a workout.
I get 20 grams of XANTHOPARMELIA scabrosa for $4.50and 20 grams of CNIDIUM monnieri for $4.75 @ beyond-a-century. That works out to 200 doses for $9.25.
Just don't combine this with any of the NO releasing products. You really don't want to over dilate your blood vessels.
Viagra and Bodybuilding
Getting A Different Kind of Pump With Viagra by Brian Haycock
Until now, getting an outrageous pump was hit or miss, seemingly impossible to predict. There may now be a simple way to enhance your pump when it counts the most...right before stepping out on stage. Before jumping into "what" and "when to take it", a brief discussion of the mechanism behind muscle pump is in order.
Blood flow to muscle is dramatically increased during high intensity exercise. The increase in blood flow serves to enhance the delivery of oxygen to active muscle cells and to increase the removal of lactate. This phenomenon is all too familiar to bodybuilders. We call it a pump and it is a strong short-term motivator in the gym. You may recall how Arnold described this feeling in the documentary film Pumping Iron. Evidently, Arnold was very near a sexual climax at the very thought of picking up a weight. Talk about dedication! I canít say that my pumps in the gym have given me the same "climactic" experience as Arnold, but then again, Iím no Arnold.
Nitric Oxide and vascular control - Changes in blood flow to working muscles have been attributed to several chemicals including adenosine, potassium, lactate, and carbon dioxide (Shepherd, 1983). Recently, nitric oxide (NO) has taken center stage as an important chemical responsible for control of blood flow to tissues. Of most importance to this article is the role of NO in modulating blood flow to working muscles. The mechanism by which NO modulates vascular control is by way of the second messenger, cyclic guanosine monophosphate (cGMP). In working muscles, nitric oxide (NO) activates the enzyme guanylate cyclase, which results in increased levels of cGMP, producing smooth muscle relaxation of blood vessel walls. This causes vasodilation. Increasing blood flow to working muscles in this way is necessary to counteract the effects of catecholamines (i.e. adrenaline, noradrenaline). This is the same type of mechanism as cAMP formation following beta-receptor activation.
What could Viagra possibly have to do with bodybuilding? You may be wondering what Viagra has to do with pumping upÖyour muscles. This is a reasonable question and Iím sure a hard sell for some of you. Let me ask you this, have you ever had an incredible pump in the gym and wished you could get that same once in a lifetime pump when you were about to go out on stage?
Unfortunately, just about everything you do to get ready for a show sets you up to look flat on stage. Viagra, through its effects on vasodilation, may mean the difference between looking flat and emaciated, or getting a freakish pump minutes before you step onstage in front of the judges.
Viagra (sildenafil citrate): a refresher course - Before I go any further I must dispel any misconceptions about what exactly sildenafil does. Iím sure most of you have already imagined some guy standing up on stage with a look of panic on his face as he inadvertently "salutes" the crowd. Rest assured, this wonít happen. Sildenafil, at recommended doses, has no effect on erectile tissue in the absence of sexual stimulation. If you donít normally find yourself sporting a woody as you step out on stage, you have nothing to worry about. Besides, you can always experiment before hand so you know what to expect (e.g. blood pressure changes). Now, back to the science of this little blue pill. VIAGRA is the citrate salt of sildenafil, a selective inhibitor of cyclic guanosine monophosphate (cGMP)-specific phosphodiesterase type-5 (PDE5). A phosphodiesterase is a phosphatase (as from snake venom) that acts on diesters (like some nucleotides) to hydrolyze only one of the two ester groups. In target cells, phosphodiesterase acts to hydrolyze cGMP and cAMP into inactive fragments, thus shutting down the second messenger cascade. A phosphodiesterase-inhibitor is a molecule that inhibits the action of phosphodiesterase. This allows cGMP (or cAMP depending on the type of phosphodiesterase) to remain in active form and thus extends or prolongs the activity of the cascade. This is part of the rationale for using caffeine, a well-known phosphodiesterase-inhibitor, with ephedrine. In working muscles, nitric oxide (NO) activates the enzyme guanylate cyclase, which results in increased levels of cGMP, producing smooth muscle relaxation of blood vessel walls. This causes vasodilation. Sildenafil has no direct relaxant effect on smooth muscle alone, but enhances the effect of nitric oxide by inhibiting phosphodiesterase type 5 (PDE5), which is responsible for degradation of cGMP. For example, when hypoxia and/or lactate formation causes local release of NO, inhibition of PDE5 by sildenafil causes increased levels of cGMP in the blood vessels, resulting in vasodilation. Once again, sildenafil at recommended doses has no effect on penile tissue in the absence of sexual stimulation. Keep in mind that sildenafil does not change the way lifting weights causes muscle pump either, it only enhances it.
A pump when you need it - There are several reasons why the pump you get back stage is far from dramatic. Getting a good pump depends in large part on lactate (A.K.A. lactic acid) formation by the working muscles (Chen,1996). As your muscles are forced to work anaerobicly, lactic acid is formed triggering a series of signals that dilate blood vessels leading to the muscle. A muscle adapted to caloric restriction shifts its preferred fuel from carbs to fatty acids and ketones, neither of which generates lactate when used for fuel. So while training on a low calorie and especially a low carb diet, lactate induced muscle blood flow is reduced compared to normal well-fed conditions. On the day of the show you want to look lean but with full muscle bellies. The only way to do this is to be in a state of good hydration, loaded with glycogen, have restored muscle triglyceride levels, and have a decent pump when you step on stage for the morning prejudging. Hydration, glycogen and muscle triglycerides will have to wait for another time, but getting a pump just got a little easier. Because NO triggers vasodilation in skeletal muscle vasculature, Viagra will increase the ability to get and maintain muscle pump by inhibiting PDE-5 production.
One final suggestion - Now I know some of you will try this and say, "Ya, that worked pretty well, but how can I make it work better?" To do this right you should drink (on an empty stomach) between 6-8 oz electrolyte replacement drink with 2-3 grams L-arginine about 15 minutes before you pump up. The sodium in the drink will allow the fluid to remain in the blood stream longer. The sugar will increase insulin, which also enhances vasodilation to skeletal muscle. Finally, L-arginine is a precursor to NO and has been shown to increase NO mediated vasodilation. Iíll tell you again that you should try this before hand so that you know what to expect.
1. Aghdasi B, Reid MB, and Hamilton SL. (1997) Nitric oxide protects the skeletal muscle Ca2+ release channel from oxidation induced activation. J Biol Chem 272:25462-25467
2. Balon TW, Nadler JL. (1997)Evidence that nitric oxide increases glucose transport in skeletal muscle. J Appl Physiol. 1997 Jan;82(1):359-63.
3. Brown GC (1995)Nitric oxide regulates mitochondrial respiration and cell functions by inhibiting cytochrome oxidase.
FEBS Lett Aug 7;369(2-3):136-9
4.Catterall WA. (1991) Excitation-contraction coupling in vertebrate skeletal muscle: a tale of two calcium channels. Cell Mar 8;64(5):871-4
5. Chen YL, Wolin MS, Messina EJ. (1996) Evidence for cGMP mediation of skeletal muscle arteriolar dilation to lactate. J Appl Physiol Jul;81(1):349-54
6.Etgen GJ Jr, Fryburg DA, Gibbs EM. (1997) Nitric oxide stimulates skeletal muscle glucose transport through a calcium/contraction- and phosphatidylinositol-3-kinase-independent pathway. Diabetes Nov;46(11):1915-9
7. Goodyear LJ, Kahn BB (1998) Exercise, glucose transport, and insulin sensitivity. Annu Rev Med ;49:235-61 Haycock B. Pharmacological approaches to fat loss. Mesomorphosis (July 1998, Vol. 1, No. 2) http://www.mesomorphosis.com/exclus...k/ephedrine.htm
8. Janabi N, Chabrier S, Tardieu M.(1996) Endogenous nitric oxide activates prostaglandin F2 alpha production in human microglial cells but not in astrocytes: a study of interactions between eicosanoids, nitric oxide, and superoxide anion (O2-) regulatory pathways. J Immunol Sep 1;157(5):2129-35
9.McAllister RM, Hirai T, Musch TI. (1995) Contribution of endothelium-derived nitric oxide (EDNO) to the skeletal muscle blood flow response to exercise. Med Sci Sports Exerc. Aug;27(:1145-51
10. Shepherd, JT (1983) Circulation to skeletal muscle. In: Handbook of physiology, Section 2: The cardiovascular system, Volume III: Peripheral circulation and organ blood flow, JT Shepherd and FM Abboud (Eds.). Bethesda, MD: American Physiological Society, pp. 319-370.
11.Wilson, JR and Kapoor S. (1993) Contribution of endothelium-derived relaxing factor to exercise-induced vasodilation in humans. J. Appl. Physiol. 75:2740-2744.
12. Young ME, Leighton B.(1998) Evidence for altered sensitivity of the nitric oxide/cGMP signalling cascade in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle. Biochem J. Jan 1;329 ( Pt 1):73-9
- 01-24-2004, 10:11 PM
- 5'10" 180 lbs.
- Join Date
- Sep 2003
- Flagstaff, AZ
- Rep Power
So what if one were to walk out on stage with a huge boner..are there any additional points given for penis vascularity? lol
The herb route sounds cool..especially since it is cheap. Maybe adding a little Rhodiola and citruline to the mix would be interesting.
01-24-2004, 10:24 PM
Lol, you will only get an erection if stimulated to do so. Trust me, the day I took 50mg of viagra I worked out with a beautiful girl who was wearing one of those really tight sports tops. I just had to try to stay focused...
01-25-2004, 09:26 AM
01-10-2014, 12:54 AM
01-10-2014, 08:10 AM
- 6'0" 210 lbs.
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Rep Power
Get some agmatine and potassium nitrate and be done with it.
01-10-2014, 08:21 AM
- 5'6" 165 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
- goose creek, sc
- Rep Power
01-10-2014, 08:21 AM
+1 on Osthole and Xantho... sick pumps
01-10-2014, 08:27 AM
01-10-2014, 08:29 AM
You can get bulk 10% osthole for as cheap as $8 for 50 grams of cnidium extract....
Xantho is pretty cheap from barlowes and it works... No need others just take those 2 and your G2G
Way better than using icariin etc
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