Gaining muscle while losing fat

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    Gaining muscle while losing fat


    I know it's extremely hard, if not impossible, to make serious muscle gains while cutting fat. But can this be done with AAS?

    For instance, let's say I did a 3-4 week cycle of M1T and/or high-dose transdermal 1-test . Normally, if I were just bulking, I might expect to gain 15-20 pounds LBM. If I was on a high-protein cutting diet, would it be possible to gain 10 pounds LBM and still lose 5-10 pounds fat? Or is it impossible to gain lots of muscle while cutting even if one is taking AAS?

    Thanks.

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    You certainly can make LBM gains and reduce bf at the same time.

    It is diffifcult, and the key is PROPER DIET. Your diet will make all the difference.

    Keep in mind that as you add LBM your %BF will decrease and your metabolic rate will increase. I think your desired gains are TOO lofty.
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    everyone's body is different.
    With my knowledge about my body, i can do it. I say give it a shot and see if it works for you
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    Thanks for your reply. I'm trying to lose about 15 pounds of fat, but I'd also like to add some muscle. Do you think it's better to cut first, without PH or AAS, and then bulk with PH later? Or do you think it makes more sense to use a PH or AAS while cutting?

    I was thinking of using either a low dose of 1-M-T or a moderate dose of transdermal 1-test while cutting, possibly adding some 1,4-andro as well.

    In other words, let's say I have eight weeks to get cut and muscular. Should I cut for four without PH/AAS, and then bulk for four with high doses of PH/AAS? Or would I be better cutting for eight with lower doses of PH/AAS?

    Yeah, I know, different for every person, but I don't have too much experience, so I'm just trying to hear other people's opinions.

    Thanks for your help.


    [QUOTE=size]You certainly can make LBM gains and reduce bf at the same time.

    It is diffifcult, and the key is PROPER DIET. Your diet will make all the difference.

    Keep in mind that as you add LBM your %BF will decrease and your metabolic rate will increase. I think your desired gains are TOO lofty.[/QUOTE
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    reduction of relative bf is much easier than total bf
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    I'm trying to do the same thing too. But what I'm doing is running M1T for 2 weeks at the beginning of my cutting cycle, then 2 weeks at the end. PCT after both mini-cycles.

    From what I read, people gain LBM and reduce bf with M1T on maintainance diets.
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    Gaining muscle in general help lower BF% as long as your not packing on the fat along wiht it. So as mentioned befores its diet more then anything, regardless if on a cycle or not. Its very hard to bulk clean for alot of people but while on cycle it does help alot.
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    It's definitely possible to do, but not to the degree some might expect. Say you were to run an m1t cycle that would yield a 10-12 lb LBM gain while bulking. The same cycle, while cutting (calorie defecit + cardio) it would be possible to keep your overall bodyweight about the same, but lose a few %BF. So in effect you are really losing a few lbs of fat & gaining a few lbs LBM.
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    Check out this link:
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/randy46.htm

    It should give you better direction on what you need to do to try and accomplish LBM while trying to trim down.

    Keep us updated!

    smike319
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    No not a BB.com article. I find a CKD works well for lossing fat while gain a little LBM. I personally think its harder to do while on a carb diet. I did a PH cutting cycle on a CKD this summer and put on a couple pounds while dropping BF. Or you can do it the easy way and bulk on a nice clean carb diet and then cut after.
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    Or you could try a recomposition using nutrient partitioners and anabolic agents, check over on avant for several really good ideas about how that would look.
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    Thanks everyone for your replies.

    Here's my plan for a cutting cycle right now. I'd really appreciate any advice from the more experienced people on the board.

    My goal is to lose about 15 pounds bodyfat, while gaining as much muscle as possible. I currently weigh 200.

    DIET: 500-700 calorie deficit daily, 5-7 small meals throughout day, 200-300g protein. 50-100g carbs early in the day with none during the evening.

    TRAINING: same as always (5 days/week, plus some light cardio thrown in to help cut)

    CYCLE:
    WEEK 1, 2: 5mg 1-M-T, 200mg 1-T transdermal, 60mg 4-AD transdermal
    WEEK 3, 4: PCT (6-OXO + Clomid)
    WEEK 5, 6: 10mg 1-M-T, 300mg 1-T transdermal, 90mg 4-AD transdermal
    WEEK 7, 8: PCT
    WEEK 9,10 (if needed): same as WEEK 5,6
    WEEK 11+ (if needed): PCT

    I will also be taking 6g CLA, 15g glutamine, and multivitamin throughout cutting.

    If I get bad side effects from 1-M-T, I will just scrap it and up the dose for the 1-T.

    I figure I can lose 1-2 pounds fat per week, so over the ten weeks I can lose 10-20 pounds. My goal is to replace that with at least 10 pounds of muscle during the cycle.

    What does everyone think? Does this sound realistic? Have I made any major mistakes? Thanks, any advice is appreciated.


    Quote Originally Posted by Longdog
    It's definitely possible to do, but not to the degree some might expect. Say you were to run an m1t cycle that would yield a 10-12 lb LBM gain while bulking. The same cycle, while cutting (calorie defecit + cardio) it would be possible to keep your overall bodyweight about the same, but lose a few %BF. So in effect you are really losing a few lbs of fat & gaining a few lbs LBM.
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    Just because you don't have a ton of posts doesn't mean that you don't have exp. I myself have helped 4 people lose over 40lbs each while keeping or even adding muscle. I myself have went from 260 lbs at 36% BF down 215 at 12% and now i am at 250 19% BF (just got done bulking). IMHO what you are trying to do would be very hard because your are lowering your cals by 500-700 a day. Maybe if you where on AAS your could do it maybe. But to get your body to put on the mass fast you should be doing 500-700 cals over maintance (at the very least).
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    CYCLE:
    WEEK 1, 2: 5mg 1-M-T, 200mg 1-T transdermal, 60mg 4-AD transdermal
    WEEK 3, 4: PCT (6-OXO + Clomid)
    WEEK 5, 6: 10mg 1-M-T, 300mg 1-T transdermal, 90mg 4-AD transdermal
    WEEK 7, 8: PCT
    WEEK 9,10 (if needed): same as WEEK 5,6
    WEEK 11+ (if needed): PCT

    By 1-T, I'm assuming you mean 1-Testosterone. If so, why take 1-T when you're taking M1T. M1T is just a methylated version of 1-T which makes it unnecessary to take 1-T along with it. I haven't heard of anyone else doing this and it sounds like an overkill.
    Also, it would probably be in your best interest to bump the trans 4AD up to around 500mg ed. This has been tried and approved by quite a few members, including myself, and have seen great results.
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    hmmm... 500mg ED trans 4ad would be about 6 squirts/day?

    one 10g bottle of 4-ad in TGel would last 10 days at the dosage.

    For 6 weeks worth he'd need 4.2 bottles.. round it off to 5 bottles.

    5 x $25 = $125.

    Am I correct in what you meant?

    A
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    Thanks for the input. I realize the M1T and 1-T are somewhat redundant. I wanted to keep the M1T dose small, since it seems to have lots of side effects and it's hard on the liver. But it's also cheap and extremely potent. So I figured a combination of high dose 1-T with low dose M1T would give me the most potency without serious side effects. Like I said, if I still have bad side effects, I'll just drop the M1T altogether.

    Do you think adding the 4AD would inhibit weight loss? Since testosterone can aromatize to estrogen, and estrogen can contribute to weight gain, I figured the less 4AD the better. Am I wrong on this? Is it OK to use 4AD for cutting? (I don't mind the water retention since I'm not competing)







    By 1-T, I'm assuming you mean 1-Testosterone. If so, why take 1-T when you're taking M1T. M1T is just a methylated version of 1-T which makes it unnecessary to take 1-T along with it. I haven't heard of anyone else doing this and it sounds like an overkill.
    Also, it would probably be in your best interest to bump the trans 4AD up to around 500mg ed. This has been tried and approved by quite a few members, including myself, and have seen great results. [/QUOTE]
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    How long did it take you to cut from 260 to 215? Did you lose a lot of LBM?


    Quote Originally Posted by FTMGuy
    Just because you don't have a ton of posts doesn't mean that you don't have exp. I myself have helped 4 people lose over 40lbs each while keeping or even adding muscle. I myself have went from 260 lbs at 36% BF down 215 at 12% and now i am at 250 19% BF (just got done bulking). IMHO what you are trying to do would be very hard because your are lowering your cals by 500-700 a day. Maybe if you where on AAS your could do it maybe. But to get your body to put on the mass fast you should be doing 500-700 cals over maintance (at the very least).
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    Houseman, first off, 6 weeks on M1T and 4AD seems kind of long to me. I don't know if anyone has even tried that yet. The best results seem to come from 2 week cycles with most people maxing out at around 10 days.

    Savagery, as small as you think the dose is, 5mg of M1T is still very potent and should be regarded as such. IMO, taking 1-T trans is a waste of money and effort to be taken with M1T. As for the trans 4AD, I don't think that low of a dosage would even alleviate the M1T sides. You could just try 5-10 mg of M1T solo and see how it works. There have been quite a few members out there who have used M1T solo for fat loss and have had great results, most with below maintenance calories. Perhaps give it a whirl by itself and you might be pleasantly surprised with the results. If the sides get too bad, throw some trans 4AD in; however, 4AD is not optimal for bulking.
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    I wasn't commenting on the running 4-ad AND m-1-t for 6 weeks. Just the m-1-t.

    My bad, however, as I didn't read you suggested it for weeks 1 and two only.

    A 6 weeker of 4-AD with 4 weeks of m-1-t would be interesting no less, eh?

    A
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    Well know back then what i know now would have helped a lot. But after doing the math I didn't loose any LMB i agained about 15# LBM and it took about 5 month to get down to 220 useing atkins then I switched to a CKD and lost the last 5 while putting on some LMB and take off the fat. So all and all I would say I came out on top.
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    Thanks, I think I'll try 5mg M1T for the first two week cycle. If it works and I feel OK, I'll up to 10mg for the next two week cycle. If the sides are bad, I'll just use 1-T instead. The M1T is cheap enough ($10 for 60x5mg) that I won't feel bad about not using it.





    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub
    Houseman, first off, 6 weeks on M1T and 4AD seems kind of long to me. I don't know if anyone has even tried that yet. The best results seem to come from 2 week cycles with most people maxing out at around 10 days.

    Savagery, as small as you think the dose is, 5mg of M1T is still very potent and should be regarded as such. IMO, taking 1-T trans is a waste of money and effort to be taken with M1T. As for the trans 4AD, I don't think that low of a dosage would even alleviate the M1T sides. You could just try 5-10 mg of M1T solo and see how it works. There have been quite a few members out there who have used M1T solo for fat loss and have had great results, most with below maintenance calories. Perhaps give it a whirl by itself and you might be pleasantly surprised with the results. If the sides get too bad, throw some trans 4AD in; however, 4AD is not optimal for bulking.
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    Any updates?
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    Yes, I did a high-protein, low calorie diet (without PH) for three weeks, and lost 6 pounds. I can't be sure that I didn't lose any muscle, but I did not lose any strength. Five days ago I began 10mg M1T with 200mg 4AD transdermal, still maintaining a high-protein, low calorie diet. Since then I've gained five pounds, which I assume is mostly water. I do not look puffy, and I definitely seem much leaner.


    Quote Originally Posted by Blutarski
    Any updates?
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    You doing 2on/2off for how many weeks? 5lbs isn't bad with no calorie or macro change (and no noticable water from the 4ad). I'm interested in your progress with this, the think PH's might be underestimated for retaining LBM in a much lower than maintance calorie sched, especially if you can keep Leptin levels up with refeeds. If you are pretty lean already this will be more of an issue. Are you doing your aforementioned cal restriction (500-700)? Any reason for the 10mg dose of M1T, you had mentioned 5mg earlier..Keep an eye on the sides and report if you want to. Good luck, sounds like you have the plan together...
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    I decided to go for 4on instead of 2on/2off. I have been doing 500-700 calorie deficit, and if strength is an indicator I haven't lost any LBM. Since starting the cycle I look far more muscular, although this may be M1T causing water retention within muscles.

    I'm definitely not lean. Before starting the diet I was 15-20% body fat. I've lost about 7 pounds of fat already, or about 3%, but I've got a ways to go before I can be considered "lean".

    Definitely have some muscle aches, especially in the back, although nothing I can't handle. I bought some potassium for that. I also have some lethargy, and if it gets worse I may up my 4AD dose to 300 or 400mg daily.

    Since starting M1T only five days ago, I just look A LOT bigger. If this immediate pump effect is any indication of the M1Ts strength, I would not be surprised if I gained 10 pounds LBM in the next three weeks, even as I'm losing fat. I'm certainly eating enough protein. Hopefully, the M1T will repartition my metabolism in such a way so the protein can be used for muscle, and I'll be burning mostly fat for fuel.

    Anybody have any ideas on how I can aid this repartitioning to make sure the protein is spared and more fat is burned? I'm already taking CLA, which research indicates can help.




    Quote Originally Posted by Blutarski
    You doing 2on/2off for how many weeks? 5lbs isn't bad with no calorie or macro change (and no noticable water from the 4ad). I'm interested in your progress with this, the think PH's might be underestimated for retaining LBM in a much lower than maintance calorie sched, especially if you can keep Leptin levels up with refeeds. If you are pretty lean already this will be more of an issue. Are you doing your aforementioned cal restriction (500-700)? Any reason for the 10mg dose of M1T, you had mentioned 5mg earlier..Keep an eye on the sides and report if you want to. Good luck, sounds like you have the plan together...
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    I decided to go with 10mg M1T instead of 5mg just because the stuff is so darn cheap, I had it on hand, and I figured if the sides were bad I could always reduce dosage. Plus I have nolva, clomid and 6-OXO on hand for recovery.

    If the sides aren't too serious then I may actually throw 600mg oral norandro during weeks three and four. I have 30 300mg pills left over from many months ago, and I figure this might be a good time to use them.




    Quote Originally Posted by Blutarski
    You doing 2on/2off for how many weeks? 5lbs isn't bad with no calorie or macro change (and no noticable water from the 4ad). I'm interested in your progress with this, the think PH's might be underestimated for retaining LBM in a much lower than maintance calorie sched, especially if you can keep Leptin levels up with refeeds. If you are pretty lean already this will be more of an issue. Are you doing your aforementioned cal restriction (500-700)? Any reason for the 10mg dose of M1T, you had mentioned 5mg earlier..Keep an eye on the sides and report if you want to. Good luck, sounds like you have the plan together...
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    Damn bro, if you can add that much LBM at a calorie deficit would be incredible. Prob won't be quite that IMO but half would be awesome. Maybe Alcar for fat mobilization, you can stack it like the Anarchy Stack or by itself, 500mg 3X a day. Goes with the CLA. Post cycle your covered, you thought about possibly a cortisol reducer such as Phosphatidylserine, I've heard some decent stuff about it. I think BSL has a new product containing this substance that would sorta "replace" 6OXO in my book and looks to be cheaper. With the 6OXO on hand you might wanna pick up some Phos.. to supplement. I think Bobo also recommended FL7 in some earlier threads post cycle and he has forgotten more than I know. Hope this turns out great, as it might be a walking advertisement for sane dosages and maybe a little thinking outside the box. What are your macro ratios if you don't mind?
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    all this M1T talk ... good times
  

  
 

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