best cutting agent to stay anabolic?
- 05-02-2009, 08:03 AM
best cutting agent to stay anabolic?
23 this year
Lifting since the 6th grade
So I have been doing some reading the past couple months on good cutting stacks but the majority of people say use test to cut and since I have never done anything outside of prohormones, I don't want my first cycle of test to be a cutting cycle.
That being said, I'm super ****ing anal about not losing muscle mass when I diet. Now I know we are all deathly afraid of loosing presious muscle but I usually get freaked out midway through a diet because my streangth REALLY decreases when I cut cals.
What compounds would you guys suggest that will keep me in an anabolic state when cutting extreme cals?
Right now on hand I have clen and ephedra. From what I read, 2 weeks clen/2weeks eph/2 weeks clen/2weeks eph works good I just don't know if there's anything else I could use to stay more anabolic then the clen.
I researched var quiet a bit and it seems like on forums EVERYONE was bashing it because its price. And again, everyone was saying use test instead but I don't want to go that route for another year to 18 months.
- 05-02-2009, 03:11 PM
H-drol (def can be great for cutting)
WinZtrol or Mega-zol
Oxyguno (a lot of skepticism about the legitimacy of the product though)
Epistane I could see being a good cutter
05-03-2009, 08:13 AM
Good list I was just looking for something more anabolic. I actually have 11oxo and ephedra on hand. Like I said I was gunna use the eca+ 11-oxo 2 weeks/ clen 2 weeks (x2) but I have a feeling there is a better route to cut and not loose too much strength and muscle mass.
I I mentioned a little bit before, I have used eca for years now but it always destroys my appatite so bad that I force myself to eat as much as I can before I puke and I can still only put down around 1100 cals a day. A dude at 5' 10 @ 210-215 lbs is going to loose some muscle at 1100 cals a day. Thus the reason I wanted to indroduce something like var in the mix.
05-03-2009, 08:40 AM
I think Anavar and Winstrol are the classic 'cutting' oral steroids, alongside injectables such as masteron and Trenbolone.
Can you get hold of substances like this? Or are you looking to go OTC?
05-03-2009, 09:21 AM
I would love to know what OTC products are best for cutting i thinking of trying h drol with the new MMV3 when its out !!! but not sure when MMV3 is out anyone know ?????
Also why is MMV3 better then 2 LG rep please
not sure you can get hold of winztrol or meg zol anymore !!!
I would recomend mmv2 or wait for the third with H drol.
05-03-2009, 09:41 AM
From everyone else on the boards: H-drol, any 'Tren' compound (X-Tren, Trenadrol etc.) and Epistane (or a clone) seem to be the most popular for cutting.
I'll be logging E-Stane as a recomp/lean bulk in June if you haven't run anything by then and want an honest review.
Good luck mate.
05-03-2009, 09:25 PM
05-03-2009, 10:16 PM
Anavar is def a great nutrient partitioner. The only real downside is price...and of course legality, IMO.
Another great option is dienedrone or liquidrone by AMS, or any other clone of this compound. This compound is stronger than most of the other "cutting" legal anabolics, and can easily produce muscle gains even while dieting. IMO, its very underrated in this regard.
Advanced Muscle Science
05-03-2009, 10:18 PM
05-05-2009, 02:11 PM
05-05-2009, 03:05 PM
05-05-2009, 03:13 PM
Stack winny and tren acetate, honestly best hardening stack I ever used, worked very quick, hardness, vascularity, strength, sweated constantly, not very happy (definitely paid a price with sides), but made a HUGE difference in a short time, was not taking any other cutting aids at that time but was dieting, high protein, low carbs, moderate fat.
Some will say add in a little test, but if this is going to be a short time, is not necessarily needed. It will not be the most comfortable cycle, but results will be very visible. I actually dropped weight, a few pounds, and had people at the gym remarking about how big I looked.
05-05-2009, 04:01 PM
don't alternate between clen and ephedra. I am pretty sure they target the same receptors (beta-2), and that this type of cycling won't work unless you use benadryl to clear the receptors
05-05-2009, 06:47 PM
I've got an App Nut IGF-2 log going up next week to help with my cut, feel free to drop in there too
05-05-2009, 08:07 PM
Beta adrenergic agonists increase nitrogen retention, which is probably where they get their reputation for having anti-catabolic effects.
Ephedrine is good.
05-06-2009, 02:49 AM
The only problem with var is that for most people it kills the appetite on its own. Look into some t-bol.
Are you just cutting for summer or what. I say just go with the test for your first. test+var/t-bol+clen would be nice for a recomp cycle. Definitely dont cut cals to 1100...
05-06-2009, 09:35 AM
while var would work, there are much more cost effective measures, if you do not want to go tren+winny (didnt realize first cycle, probably not advised), I would honestly look into an epi product, much of the same type of results as winny, much cheaper than var and the difference in results between var and winny is not large, if pinning and first cycle just do test. Honestly, people underestimate how much just test will effect their physique. And you can diet on test, most people include test in cut cycles and may just drop the last few weeks before contest. In your position test would be my choice.
There is nothing wrong with var, but it gets a lot of hype because it is somewhat hard to get and expensive. Results are good, but there is not nothing really that distinguishes it from other highly anabolic orals, it is still methylated so still toxic to liver and it does still cause shutdown, though it probably is a bit milder than some other alternatives. Would be a good choice no doubt, just want to make sure that your expectations are not out of line.
05-07-2009, 08:11 PM
Sorry guys, was out of town for a week and a half.
I do have some havoc on hand for the people that suggested it. What would a stack look like with havoc and clen?
As for body fat, my mma coach calipered me at about 15%. Im just looking to lose for the summer. As soon as fall hits im going to fatten up again and try to get swole
Thanks to everyone so far for the advice. I REALLY appreciate it.
On a side not, I now believe that the whole clen+eph is the most contradicting combo on the net. 50% of the things I read say that 2 weeks of clen and 2 weeks of eph is the way to go and the other 50% say never mix the 2. its really pissing me off. I have never researched a sup and got 2 completely different answers.
06-01-2009, 10:00 PM
It is absolutely true that they target the same receptors (E and clen). You're better off just sticking with one, because you continue to downregulate with that alternating technique.
I'm one of those who actually prefers ECA to clen. Clen makes me feel like ass, while ECA makes me feel great! AND, it's just as effective for me.
06-02-2009, 09:34 AM
I have to admit, im super bussy right now so im finding it hard to find a lot of time for cardio but my diet has been VERY VERY strict. So we will see what happens.
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