Homebrew E-Form (Formestane)
- 01-10-2004, 12:05 AM
Homebrew E-Form (Formestane)
Has any one of you tried to homebrew E-Form (Formestane) ? E-Form is manufactured by Dermablics and a topical aromatozation inhibitor, meaning that it keeps your natural test from converting to estrogen.
I knew there were several oral Formestane products such as Aromazap by Syntrax, but I thought transdermal could be more effective. I decided to homebrew E-Form.
I ordered 20 grams of Formestane powder and used Chemo's recipe with 10% DMSO. I never had trouble mixing 20 grams of PH powder like 1-test or/and 4AD into 12oz lotion.
However, I had to use three times as much solvent and heat it to disolve all Formestane powder. So it ended up 36oz lotion. In spite of all the effort, it keeps forming crystals when it gets cold. I need to heat it up upon each application. Is this common???
- 01-10-2004, 12:15 AM
Originally Posted by Big Masa
- 01-10-2004, 12:28 AM
Thanks for the reply. Yeah, when I heat it with hot water, it goes into solution. I am kinda tired of having to do that.
I tried and added more solvent (99% isopropyl alcohol and DMSO), but it still keeps forming crystals.
Does this mean that Formestane is more likely to cause the saturation than are other PHs? Like I noted, I had to use three times as much solvent. What do you think?
01-10-2004, 12:37 AM
I must agree that the saturation point must be lower than other compounds.Originally Posted by Big Masa
I have not had such a problem with any other powder.
Good luck,and let me know if you add more solution what the final mg/ml is if you get it to stay in solution.
01-10-2004, 12:53 AM
yes, i've had major problems trying to dissolve formastene into the t-gel. 5 grams into 120ml and i still get lotsa undissolved crystals. i even added 20ml more and reheat and shake at least 8X, but no go. lotsa crystal chunks over my body. i don't know how much dissolved, but i don't think much. any suggestions?
01-10-2004, 01:22 AM
I think any undissolved PH is not gonna be absorbed, and it is as good as wasting of hard earned money.Originally Posted by lancelot
Given that I had to use 36oz base homebrew lotion for 20 grams Formestane, I am guessing that roughly 2.5 grams of Formestane can be disolved in 120ml T-gel. Of course, T-Gel and my lotion may have different ratio of solvent to penetration enhancers, so the amount of PH that can be dissolved may be different. This is just a rough idea.
I suggest adding more solvent (alcohol, DMSO, or PG) to it and heating it up. Shaking also helps. Otherwise, buy more T-gel and use it although I don't know how many more bottles you may need. It may cost losta money. Sorry, I wasn't much help.
01-10-2004, 01:41 AM
wonder how it would disslove in the new t-gel
01-10-2004, 02:45 AM
you've been helpful. From looking at your calculations, it looks like i will need 240ml of the T-gel to dissolve 5 grams of formestane? i don't have any penetration enhancers like dmso or pg so i'm gonna have to just add more t-gel, heat and shake, shake shake. thanks for the info.Originally Posted by Big Masa
01-10-2004, 10:32 AM
what if you did it in a cyclo instead of a trans. You may need to take it twice per day but it might help out the porblem of getting it to dissolve.
01-10-2004, 03:58 PM
E-Form, Post Cycle or During the Cycle?
Thanks for the reply, Designer Supps. Cyclo Formestane (either sublingual or intranasal) may have more absorption rate and must be easy to use.
Let me throw another topic about Formestane.
I've heard that PA said Formestane may cause further suppresion on natural test production. Some people like Bill say its natural test enhancing effect overpowers its suppresing effect.
If PA is right, Formestane is not good for post cycle therapy but better during the cycle. I have been using homebrew E-form with Nolva for post cycle recovery. How can I tell if E-Form is suppresing my natural test or helping it recover?
My question is, Can I use E-Form for post cycle? I have used the search button but couldn't find the clear answer. Any reply will be appreciated!!
01-10-2004, 04:08 PM
Get your serum tested for LH and FSH, and see if they are in the normal range.Originally Posted by Big Masa
01-10-2004, 04:31 PM
that would tell you what it is doing.
01-10-2004, 04:40 PM
What about methyl-formestane??? Everybody I've asked about it (Chemo) doesn't think it would be a good idea. I think it would kick ass, and you'd probably only need 1-3mg/day. Could possibly block methyl-estradiol too, no?
01-10-2004, 06:48 PM
I didn't say it was a bad idea but rather it would be impossible to synthesize the compound...can anyone tell me why?Originally Posted by supersoldier
I'll give you a big hint: what is the name of the active, parent compound for formestane?
01-11-2004, 04:34 AM
Simply because its a dione. Since the C17 already has a double bonded oxygen attached to it (giving us our 4 bonds on C17), ao we cannot attach another substituent to it.Originally Posted by Chemo
A Diol on the other hand can be methylated. However the Diol wouldn't act as an aromatase inhibitor, rather it would be a precurser to 4-hydroxytestosterone.
Formestane applied transdermally provides an amazing anti-estrogen. 25mg applied twice a day should be just as effective as the rx anti-e's such as Arimidex. However it is not as great when it comes to raising levels of LH. Is it useless? Defintely not, Formestane has been shown to increase levels of testosterone, but 6-OXO would probably be a better choice for post cycle use.
Dowsett M, Llyod P. "Comparison of the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of unformulated and formulated 4-hydroxyandrostenedione taken orally by healthy men." Cancer Chemother Pharmacol 1990; 27:67-71
01-11-2004, 08:46 AM
Ding! NDN takes first place!!
As was pointed out, the 17-keto is what the 17-alkylation prevents in the first place. Further, it is impossible to do chemically.
Now, remove the offending 17-keto and turn it into a 17-hydroxy so it can be alkylated and what do you have? That's right...4-OHT. And if I'm not mistaken there are people already working on methyl 4-OHT.
As you can see, a methylated version of 4-OHT would provide very good anti-aromatase coverage while on cycle and also a very good anabolic profile! Should be a kick ass compound when it drops...
BTW, as always --> NDN rises to the occassion!
01-11-2004, 10:41 AM
Wow, you guys are so amazing. You guys are sure educating me woth lots of Biochem knowledge.
01-11-2004, 10:55 AM
Thanks Diablo!! You have answered almost all my questions!!Originally Posted by ndn diablo
I transdermaly apply 100mg of Formestane twice a day. (100mg am/100mg pm) My daily dosage is 200mg. With the article posted above, You say 50mg a day is enough. Is 200mg too much?
I guess that too much Formestane may cause further suppresion on natural test production. Here is my question. Is Formestane suppresive by itself, or does it have to first convert to 4OHT to be suppresive? Any reply will be appreciated!!
01-11-2004, 05:12 PM
Reason I was saying 25mg twice a day was because in the literature, the therapeutic dosage that has been given to patients has been 250mg / 2 weeks. 50mg x .35 absorption gives us about 17.5mg Formestane per day, or 245mg per 2 weeks. 200mg per day is a bit of an overkill, you will probably see the same results with 50mg applied per day. Try dropping it, and let us know if you notice any difference.Originally Posted by Big Masa
To answer your second question, no formestane itself is not suppresive, however 4OHT is. But since formestane is a suicide-inhibitor, there will be very little conversion to 4-OHT, and as that study that I posted eariler points out - there will still be an increase in test levels. What are you planning on using it for? On-cycle, post cycle?
01-11-2004, 06:22 PM
Diablo, thank you for the reply!!Originally Posted by ndn diablo
I have been using 200mg Formestane plus 40mg Nolva per day for 2 weeks for my post cycle recovery. I have noticed dry skin and some acne on my face. Too little estrogen may be the reason.
I will drop the dosage to 100mg per day first, and then I would taper it down to 50mg per day and see how it goes. Thank you again!!
01-12-2004, 02:36 AM
So maybe since M4OHT is a methyl it could block methyl-E??? Or is my logic off?Originally Posted by Chemo
01-12-2004, 02:43 PM
It should have more potent anti-aromatase potential...
04-29-2009, 12:38 AM
anyone ever used formestane intranasally?
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