First H-drol cycle - Please review!

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    First H-drol cycle - Please review! (now logging cycle)


    I posted a couple of weeks ago when I had planned to run Havoc. I've switched to H-drol and revised just about everything.

    This is going to be my very first cycle. It will be five weeks of H-drol. I'm 37yo 5'9" 167lb and approx 10% BF. Been lifting over 15 years. My primary goal is cut/recomp with as much bulking as I can get out of it. Planning on eating about 500cal over maintenance and doing lots of cardio.

    My number one concern in PCT is gyno prevention! I don't care about any other temporary sides like libido loss, lethargy, etc.

    EDIT: My cycle & PCT went through a few tweaks during the course of my cycle. Below is what I ultimately decided to take. Some of the discussion in the thread may not perfectly correlate to what is here because it was a work in progress and went through a few changes on the fly.

    Because my goal was to cut I decided to eat maintenance calories for the first three weeks and then 200-300 below maintenance for the last two weeks.


    CYCLE
    Weeks 1-5 H-drol 50/50/75/75/75 - 2-3 doses/day
    Weeks 1-9 AI's Life Support (pill form of Cycle Support) - 4 caps ED (2 doses/day)

    PCT
    Weeks 6-9 Creatine
    Weeks 6-9 N.O.-xplode (will use until I run out of my half tub)
    Weeks 6-9 Diesel Test Hardcore - 4 caps ED (3 doses/day) -- Six days on - one day off.
    Weeks 6-9 Torem 120 x 3, 90, 60 x 3 / 60 / 60x4, 30x3 / 30 - Split dose w/ higher dose at night
    (Note: My Torem was spilled and lost on Day 24 of PCT. I continued PCT according to plan without the Torem.)
    Weeks 6-9 Formex 25 EOD/25/50/50/25/25
    Weeks 8-11 Post Cycle Support - 4 caps ED (2 doses/day)
    Weeks 8-11 Lean Xtreme - 3 caps ED (3 doses/day)

    I used Napalm from Day 28 of the cycle through Day 12 of PCT (19 days total). I stopped Napalm at that point because of red lines on my abs that were caused by Napalm. No response from Avant reps with respect to that side effect.

    Other supps: Whey, BCAA, Taurine, Cissus, Beta Alanine, EFA, CLA taken throughout cycle and PCT. Sesamin taken through cycle and week two of PCT -- I was using sesamin before the cycle and ran out during PCT, saw no benefits so won't use any more. Green tea powder restarted in PCT.

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    I would use a Serm. Torm or tamox at a low does will work just fine for you, better to be safe then have problems down the line.

    I would start the cort blocker at or near the end of the cycle with my PCT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tunasandwich View Post
    I would use a Serm. Torm or tamox at a low does will work just fine for you, better to be safe then have problems down the line.

    I would start the cort blocker at or near the end of the cycle with my PCT.
    Are you recommending low dose SERM instead of the AI or in addition to AI?

    How low would you go with Torem? I've seen people advise as low as 40mg ED. Is that too low?
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    I have ran 3 cycles of hdrol at 50/75/75/75/100/100 with no problems at all. All my PCT was Reversitol and testabolan V2. I did have a SERM but never even needed it. Also, during PCT gained around 3 more pounds. I am taking 60 days off since the last one and I'm just about where I want to be anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by liftin4fun View Post
    I have ran 3 cycles of hdrol at 50/75/75/75/100/100 with no problems at all. All my PCT was Reversitol and testabolan V2. I did have a SERM but never even needed it. Also, during PCT gained around 3 more pounds. I am taking 60 days off since the last one and I'm just about where I want to be anyway.
    How do you know you didn't need it?

    I've got all I need to go SERM or OTC. What would have needed to happen for you to use the SERM?
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    So I started my cycle on April 22 and I'm going to do my best to log it.

    I didn't notice anything at first but then on day three my nuts started to hurt in a blue balls kind of way. This was a bit alarming and I posted about it here - Kicked in the nuts sensation from H-drol? Need advice. This sensation was pretty much gone by day five but it does mildly reemerge at times.

    I was going to keep a more detailed log but I honestly haven't noticed anything from the cycle so I've had nothing to say. No changes in strength, libido, body comp, hunger, mood, aggression... So far everything is within the range of what I might expect if I wasn't on a cycle. I'm not surprised by this because I know real gains aren't usually seen until the third week but I was hoping to notice something other than side effects (back pump and sore nuts).

    On day ten I was doing deadlifts and noticed unusual tightness in my lower back. I assume this is what people refer to as back pumps. It was annoying because I've been taking taurine to prevent pumps yet I still got this side effect and have no gains. However, the tightness hasn't been back since that day which is a relief.

    I normally lift three days a week (MWF) but I bumped it to four days a week since starting the cycle (MTThF). I'm not prone to placebo effects (if anything I tend to be a non-responder to most supps) but I've been trying to trick myself into placebo; when I'm lifting I often tell myself "I'M ON JUICE!!!" in an effort to amp myself up so I can lift heavier and harder. Sometimes it works for an extra rep but nothing spectacular.

    Today was day 14 and I definitely noticed more of a pump in my arms at the gym and after lifting. However, I started a new lifting routine today which might explain the pump. I'll know better Thursday or Friday.

    Diet has been super clean. I've probably been eating 80gm of protein more than I usually do and about 300 calories more than I usually do but still in maintenance range.

    I've been doing less cardio than I'd like because of some mild knee tenderness that flares up when I run so today I started hitting the eliptical until the knee issue clears up.

    Yesterday was day 13 and I decided to bump h-drol up to 75 two days early. Tomorrow starts week three when things will allegedly start to get interesting. I'll start logging more regularly if I have anything interesting to report; no update means no changes.

    If there are any questions ask away.
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    looks good... im with ya- today is my day 10 and i still haven't seen anything. I started 75 mg on monday so im hoping by next week things really start kicking in.
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    Hdrol doesn't kick in till week 3. You'll start noticing it's effects soon enough. Yea I got that kicked in the nuts feeling on day 2 of my cycle. Went away a few hours later... hasn't come back.

    Dose your Torem 60/60/30/30 for your PCT. You won't regret it. You get back pumps from these compounds even when taking taurine and eating a grip of potassium. They just aren't as bad as they might be. I can remember doing squats on epistane and not being able to walk upright when I left the gym.

    What is your workout/diet plan... you'll probably get more subs and more responses if you put more information into your posts.
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    This is what I ate yesterday and is pretty typical of my diet on a workout day. I copied it from fitday and I hope it is easy to read. I did my best to format it in a way that is legible and it's pretty much in the order I ate it through the day (CLA, EFA and sesamin are split throughout the day).

    FOOD
    Cals Fat(g) Carbs(g) Prot(g)


    All The Whey Meal Replacer Chocolate (3 scoops)
    198 0.0 10.5 37.5

    Oats - Coach's Oats - 2/3 cup, 40g
    160 3.0 27.0 6.0

    CLA 1g softgel x 6
    54 6.0 0.0 0.0

    Mega EFA 1 Softgel x 6
    60 6.0 0.0 0.0

    Sesamin 1ml x 3
    21 2.4 0.0 0.0

    Orange Juice (8oz)
    100 0.0 24.0 2.0

    Salmon, cooked 5oz
    197 6.1 0.0 33.2

    Avocado Hummus - 2bsp
    60 4.0 1.0 1.0

    Tortilla - Mission yellow corn
    55 0.8 11.0 1.0

    Peanuts 1oz
    170 15.0 5.0 7.0

    Apple, raw
    81 0.3 21.5 0.4

    Met-Rx 100% Whey - 1 Scoop
    110 2.0 2.0 22.0

    **WORKOUT**

    Met-Rx 100% Whey - 1 Scoop
    110 2.0 2.0 22.0

    Dextrose 1/4 Cup
    144 0.0 38.4 0.0

    Optimum Nutrition Casein - 1 Scoop
    120 1.0 4.0 24.0

    Salmon, cooked 7.5oz
    296 9.1 0.0 49.9

    Avocado Hummus - 2bsp
    60 4.0 1.0 1.0

    Tortilla - Mission yellow corn
    55 0.8 11.0 1.0

    Peanut Butter 1Tb
    95 8.0 3.0 4.0

    Peanut Butter 1Tb
    95 8.0 3.0 4.0

    Rice Cake
    30 0.0 6.0 1.0

    Yogurt - Danon Light & Fit Vanilla (1 cup)
    110 0.0 21.0 7.0

    Strawberries, raw
    36 0.3 8.7 0.8

    Optimum Nutrition NitroCore 24 (1 scoop)
    200 5.0 14.0 24.0

    Total
    2,617 83.7 214.2 248.8

    Calories 2,617

    Fat 83.7g 754 29%
    Saturated 13.3g 120 5%
    Polyunsaturated 25.8g 232 9%
    Monounsaturated 20.7g 186 7%

    Carbohydrate 214.2g 829 32%
    Dietary Fiber 32.5g

    Protein 248.8g 1,017 39%
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    This is my planned workout for the last three weeks of my cycle and into PCT. It's tightly based on the Hypertrophy II program in The New Rules of Lifting by Schuler and Cosgrove.

    Each workout is done eight times. There are four different rep ranges and each one is done twice. So I'll list the exercise and then the four different rep ranges.

    Workout 1
    Superset:
    Barbell Reverse-Grip Bent-Over Row
    Barbell Bench Press (I use Smith because of no spotter)
    6x3
    2x25
    3x12
    5x6

    Superset:
    Wide grip row
    DB incline press
    Dip (I go to exhaustion if reps are too low, gym doesn't have a belt for weighted dips)
    6x3
    2x25
    3x12
    5x6

    Weighted Swiss ball crunch
    3x12

    Workout 2
    Snatch-grip deadlift
    5x6
    6x3
    2x25
    3x12

    Superset:
    Dynamic lunge
    Step-up with dumbbells
    5x6
    6x3
    2x25
    3x12

    Biceps hammer curl
    5x6
    6x3
    2x25
    3x12

    Incline reverse crunch
    3x12

    Workout 3
    Superset:
    Close grip chin up (I do close grip lat pull if reps are too low, gym doesn't have a belt for weighted chins)
    Barbell shoulder press
    3x12
    5x6
    6x3
    2x25

    Superset:
    Wide grip lat pulldown
    Dumbbell check press
    3x12
    5x6
    6x3
    2x25

    Barbell Curl (EZ)
    3x12
    5x6
    6x3
    2x25

    Weighted upper body Russian twist
    3x12

    Workout 4
    Squat
    2x25
    3x12
    5x6
    6x3

    Superset:
    Reverse cable EZ-curl
    Calf Raise
    2x25
    3x12
    5x6
    6x3

    Cable woodchop
    3x12
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    Hmm... Just noticed that Hypertrophy II doesn't include any squats. Not sure I want to go through the meat of my cycle without squatting. I'm going to have to either work squats into one of the three workouts or add a fourth workout that includes squats.

    Easy solution is adding squats to my deadlift day but I've never been crazy about doing squats and dl on the same day.
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  13. dpfisher
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    You're eating 2600 calories to gain? I'm about the same size as you and without hormones I need like 3000 just to maintain. And I don't do much cardio. Of course everybody's different, but you might eat more if you're not gaining.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpfisher View Post
    You're eating 2600 calories to gain? I'm about the same size as you and without hormones I need like 3000 just to maintain. And I don't do much cardio. Of course everybody's different, but you might eat more if you're not gaining.
    As I said in the first post "My primary goal is cut/recomp with as much bulking as I can get out of it."

    Everyone is different bro. If I ate 3000 calories without hormones I wouldn't maintain, I'd get fat.

    I've been focused on cutting for a little over a year. I was down 20lb of fat at the beginning of Janurary. Since then I've put on about 7lb of muscle and the entire time I've been eating 1900-2200 while training hard and doing HIIT. I've been in the 2600 calorie range since starting the cycle and I've been paranoid I'm going to gain fat which would totally defeat the purpose of this cycle.

    My electronic scale says I'm about 10% BF but last week when I measured with calipers I was 7% -- pretty much same as before I started the cycle. I'm guessing I'm closer to 10% because my abs aren't as defined as I think they would be at 7% and I don't trust my caliper readings. Of course electronic scale readings aren't exactly the most accurate either. I measure Friday mornings so I'll see where I'm at tomorrow.

    What should I do if BF is still the same? I'm halfway through my cycle now but I know changes don't come until week three. Should I keep eating ~2600 or reduce calories to try to force the issue?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGear View Post
    What should I do if BF is still the same? I'm halfway through my cycle now but I know changes don't come until week three. Should I keep eating ~2600 or reduce calories to try to force the issue?
    in my experience with Hdrol, if I was you, I would just up the protein significantly, how much are you eating now?...add at least 50-75g, lift heavy, I mean reach complete failure, then do a burn-out, and if any cardio, just do it to get better blood flow (walking, light biking or elliptical) barely breaking a sweat, slightly increased heart rate. Just my .2

    Im getting ready for my summer cycle...can't wait
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGear View Post
    As I said in the first post "My primary goal is cut/recomp with as much bulking as I can get out of it."

    Everyone is different bro. If I ate 3000 calories without hormones I wouldn't maintain, I'd get fat.

    I've been focused on cutting for a little over a year. I was down 20lb of fat at the beginning of Janurary. Since then I've put on about 7lb of muscle and the entire time I've been eating 1900-2200 while training hard and doing HIIT. I've been in the 2600 calorie range since starting the cycle and I've been paranoid I'm going to gain fat which would totally defeat the purpose of this cycle.

    My electronic scale says I'm about 10% BF but last week when I measured with calipers I was 7% -- pretty much same as before I started the cycle. I'm guessing I'm closer to 10% because my abs aren't as defined as I think they would be at 7% and I don't trust my caliper readings. Of course electronic scale readings aren't exactly the most accurate either. I measure Friday mornings so I'll see where I'm at tomorrow.

    What should I do if BF is still the same? I'm halfway through my cycle now but I know changes don't come until week three. Should I keep eating ~2600 or reduce calories to try to force the issue?
    You gained 7 lbs of muscle in 4 months natty?

    That's pretty impressive.
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    Bro first off, Im not sure if you meant 5,000 cals? but 500 calories a day is going to 1) run your metabolism into the ground and 2) not give you anything in the way of muscle gains because youre just not giving your body enough fuel. and on top of all that if you lots of cardio with that little of calories youre going to burn muscle. id at very least eat 2,200-2,500 calories daily. and on top of that halodrol doesnt armotise very easily so gyno isnt a HUGE concern..but it could still happen. just have a anti-aromtase on hand and you should be fine!
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    in my experience with Hdrol, if I was you, I would just up the protein significantly, how much are you eating now?...add at least 50-75g, lift heavy, I mean reach complete failure, then do a burn-out, and if any cardio, just do it to get better blood flow (walking, light biking or elliptical) barely breaking a sweat, slightly increased heart rate. Just my .2

    Im getting ready for my summer cycle...can't wait
    As I said since starting the cycle I've been eating about 80g more protein per day which is where most of my extra calories are coming from. On cycle I'm in the 250g ballpark most days.

    I always lift to failure, but see little point in burning out or doing really low intensity cardio (can you even call it "cardio" if you don't break a sweat?). When I do cardio I usually do HIIT and that has been serving me well in cutting.
    Quote Originally Posted by GMG760 View Post
    You gained 7 lbs of muscle in 4 months natty?

    That's pretty impressive.
    Upon further analysis, I don't know how accurate that 7lb estimate is. I weigh myself just about every day and graph my weight once a week. Since I'm trying to cut I chart my lowest weight each week. My rock bottom weight in 2009 is 158.8 but it turns out that is an anomaly because it's the only reading that was below 160. My weight typically fluctuates 3-4 pounds in any given week, so it's hard to say exactly how much weight I've gained but when I look at the graph that bottom number has been steadily climbing.

    I just did a little experiment and charted my max weight for each week. That is a much flatter graph by which you could make the argument that I haven't gained a thing in 2009.

    The fact that my lowest weight each week has been steadily climbing and the max weight has been comparatively flat suggests to me that there is some recomp going on. But it is hard to say exactly how much muscle was gained or fat lost.

    A very interesting thing is happening this week -- there is very little fluctuation. So far in five days this week the range has been 168.0 - 167.2 which is an unusually narrow range for me. I'll chart again on Sunday and post it.

    Quote Originally Posted by TravisG View Post
    Bro first off, Im not sure if you meant 5,000 cals? but 500 calories a day is going to 1) run your metabolism into the ground and 2) not give you anything in the way of muscle gains because youre just not giving your body enough fuel. and on top of all that if you lots of cardio with that little of calories youre going to burn muscle. id at very least eat 2,200-2,500 calories daily. and on top of that halodrol doesnt armotise very easily so gyno isnt a HUGE concern..but it could still happen. just have a anti-aromtase on hand and you should be fine!
    I said 500 calories over maintenance. I've been eating about 500 calories over what I normally eat (~2600 cal) which is a bit over maintenance but not 500 calories over. My typical diet is a few posts up. I can't imagine eating just 500 calories a day!

    I appreciate the feedback but I don't think you read the thread very closely
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    Day 17 and officially halfway through my cycle now.

    Body fat is down. I measure using electronic calipers and an electronic scale. The scale is really erratic in BF readings so I'm going to go with the calipers. I think I may be a bit higher than the readings I'm getting but at least the calipers are more consistent.

    On day two calipers said my BF was 7.3%, on day 10 it was 7.0% and today (day 17) it was 6.7%. I think I'm higher than that but I attached some pictures I took today, maybe you guys can make a guesstimate as to what my BF is.

    I take regular measurements of my chest, stomach, waist, hips, thigh and arms. Since I want to cut/recomp I was hoping all measurements would go down except for chest and arms. Unfortunately, everything was up from day 10 but the changes were small enough that it could have been due to measurement error. The exception is my arms, they are up 3/8" and there is no measurement error with my arms. I did some biceps isolation sets yesterday for the first time in nearly a year so this morning when I measured my arms may still have been swollen from the curls. However, my triceps look bigger to me since I started the cycle so that might be the difference as well.

    I don't feel like my strength or stamina has increased since starting the cycle but I've been more sore in the mornings than I usually am (I don't usually get much soreness). My explanation for the soreness is either that I'm working harder than usual or it's the result of having less recovery time between workouts since I'm training four days a week instead of three.

    As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I bumped my dose from 50 to 75 on day 13. My nuts got sore again and the soreness has been more persistent this time. It's not constant but it's there.

    The back pumps I experienced last week have not returned. My lower back was a little tighter than usual when doing deads this week but nothing like the discomfort I had last week. I upped my taurine a bit so that may have helped.

    I also revised the workout I posted above to include squats and an extra biceps day.

    Mood, libido, aggressiveness, hunger, etc. are all normal.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
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    all in all man, it seems like you got everything down, good job! o, hows your PCT looking?
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    Just to update, that kicked in the nuts feeling is not going away. I've noticed it tends to be at its worst when sitting in a car for a long time with a seatbelt on. After 30-40 minutes the pain gets rather unpleasant.

    I hope it goes away soon but this would definitely be a disincentive to take another bump up to 100 on a future cycle.

    Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    all in all man, it seems like you got everything down, good job! o, hows your PCT looking?
    Thanks.

    Here's my plan for PCT:

    Weeks 6-9 Creatine
    Weeks 6-9 Lean Xtreme (cort control) - Still not sure how much to take - HELP?
    Weeks 6-9 Diesel Test Hardcore (natty test booster) - 4 caps ED
    Weeks 6-9 Post Cycle Support - 4 caps ED
    Weeks 6-9 Torem 120x3, 90x4 /60/60/30

    Look OK?

    I'm still trying to decide if I need this much torem in the first week. Some have told me I can do 60 the first week but because of how sore the boys have been I think I may be more shutdown than most people get from halo, so maybe I should do the higher dose for a week.

    I'm open to more input about torem dosing (not open to suggestions to skip the serm because I "can get away with it").

    I think N.O. is bunk but I've got a half-full tub of NO-xplode I may toss in for kicks. Anyone know if it's a bad idea to stack NO-xplode with DTH since DTH has N.O. properties too?

    Also, can anyone advise on how much LX to use? Are there any DS reps out there???
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    Use the NO Xplode. It will help you keep your aggression/focus/strength up during PCT. You can use DTHC and NO Xplode at the same time.
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    IDK about the Lean Xtreme...I used 6OXO for cort control and a lil test booster, my main test booster was Blue-Up. I would run a SERM regardless, always be safe than sorry, as for the shutdown, I have no idea, I never felt pain in my boys
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    Quote Originally Posted by KgTomCat View Post
    IDK about the Lean Xtreme...I used 6OXO for cort control and a lil test booster, my main test booster was Blue-Up. I would run a SERM regardless, always be safe than sorry, as for the shutdown, I have no idea, I never felt pain in my boys
    6-oxo for cort control? Not sure I've heard of it for that before.

    I was going to use 6-oxo with torem but after all my research I decided against it. 6-oxo causes shedding if you're prone to MPB and it can cause gyno from estrogen rebound.

    What was the cycle you used 6-oxo for?

    If you're already using a serm for something like halo that doesn't aromatize I'm not sure how 6-oxo (or any AI) fits into PCT. I know a lot of people use both but I don't see how 6-oxo helps, it just seems to introduce more potential side effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGear View Post
    6-oxo for cort control? Not sure I've heard of it for that before.

    I was going to use 6-oxo with torem but after all my research I decided against it. 6-oxo causes shedding if you're prone to MPB and it can cause gyno from estrogen rebound.

    What was the cycle you used 6-oxo for?

    If you're already using a serm for something like halo that doesn't aromatize I'm not sure how 6-oxo (or any AI) fits into PCT. I know a lot of people use both but I don't see how 6-oxo helps, it just seems to introduce more potential side effects.
    Ive heard weird things about 6OXO...im not sure, someone who is more knowledgeable can tell you more. I think Im prone, but I barely have any shedding...maybe Im not prone, who knows?
    If you dont want to use the 6OXO then stick to what you got man...there isn't a 'right' or 'wrong' way to run Hdrol, I know some guys dont even use a PCT for it lol
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    TomCat's H-Drol Diarrhea...

    thats the cycle I used 6OXO on...I feel it was a waste (not the 6OXO, the cycle), I got wayyy too fat with my bulk last fall...it helped me lose a GOOD amount of BF and gain decent strength, thats why Im cutting hardcore right now, so when I run Hdrol this summer w/Furaguno, Im going to be better than ever! (knock on wood) lol
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    what was your total gains off this product?
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    about 12-15, kept about 10-12, dont know how much BF I lost, but it was a significant amount, there are pre and post pics in the thread
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    You're wrong Tom. 6-oxo is an AI. 11-oxo is the cortisol controller. I'm pretty sure that is what you used anyway.

    Lean Xtreme is great stuff btw. Go with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMG760 View Post
    You're wrong Tom. 6-oxo is an AI. 11-oxo is the cortisol controller. I'm pretty sure that is what you used anyway.

    Lean Xtreme is great stuff btw. Go with it.
    Can you PLEASE help me with LX dosing for my PCT?

    I've read enough to be convinced that LX is the way to go for cort control. But for the life of me I can't seem to find any info on proper PCT dosing.
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    THERE HE IS!!!!!!!!
    I though I had something mixed up!
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGear View Post
    Can you PLEASE help me with LX dosing for my PCT?

    I've read enough to be convinced that LX is the way to go for cort control. But for the life of me I can't seem to find any info on proper PCT dosing.
    I have always dosed it as it is suggested on the bottle. 1 cap 3x daily. You could go up to 4... so maybe 4/3/3/2 caps a day if you wanted to taper down. I have never tapered down, so I have just ran 3/3/3/3.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMG760 View Post
    I have always dosed it as it is suggested on the bottle. 1 cap 3x daily. You could go up to 4... so maybe 4/3/3/2 caps a day if you wanted to taper down. I have never tapered down, so I have just ran 3/3/3/3.
    THANKS!

    Label says 2-4 caps/day which isn't terribly helpful. And you never know if recommended dosages apply to PCT use. If 3 ED worked for you then I'll do it that way unless someone provides a good reason for tapering.

    Wish I could rep you again but it won't let me.

    Hard to believe after all the research I did that I only have eight workouts left. I'm tempted to throw a couple of extra lifting days in there (5x/week) but afraid I'll end up overtraining.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMG760 View Post
    Hdrol doesn't kick in till week 3. You'll start noticing it's effects soon enough. Yea I got that kicked in the nuts feeling on day 2 of my cycle. Went away a few hours later... hasn't come back.

    Dose your Torem 60/60/30/30 for your PCT. You won't regret it. You get back pumps from these compounds even when taking taurine and eating a grip of potassium. They just aren't as bad as they might be. I can remember doing squats on epistane and not being able to walk upright when I left the gym.

    What is your workout/diet plan... you'll probably get more subs and more responses if you put more information into your posts.
    I like your recommendation to does torem @ 60 in the first week. But since my nuts are more sore than most people seem to get from hdrol do you still think I should take the lower dose in the first week?

    Any clue if the soreness means I'm more shut down? Or if it indicates I'm more likely to experience side effects from something more harsh like havoc/epi?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGear View Post
    THANKS!

    Label says 2-4 caps/day which isn't terribly helpful. And you never know if recommended dosages apply to PCT use. If 3 ED worked for you then I'll do it that way unless someone provides a good reason for tapering.

    Wish I could rep you again but it won't let me.

    Hard to believe after all the research I did that I only have eight workouts left. I'm tempted to throw a couple of extra lifting days in there (5x/week) but afraid I'll end up overtraining.
    You're done with your third week huh? What you think so far?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGear View Post
    I like your recommendation to does torem @ 60 in the first week. But since my nuts are more sore than most people seem to get from hdrol do you still think I should take the lower dose in the first week?

    Any clue if the soreness means I'm more shut down? Or if it indicates I'm more likely to experience side effects from something more harsh like havoc/epi?
    I ran Epi and never had that feeling. I only had the nut pain for a little on hdrol. I don't think it is you being super shut down. If you want the Torem to bounce you back faster dose higher the first week or even 120 for maybe 3 days. Torem at 60/60/30/30 was strong enough to recover me from a 3 week Mdrol cycle, so you be the judge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMG760 View Post
    You're done with your third week huh? What you think so far?
    You know what, the only thing that's shut down is my brain.

    I'm exactly half way through the cycle and I have ten workouts left. My third week starts next week, but not until Wed. My brain cut Monday and Tuesday out of the equation.

    If my caliper readings are accurate I've dropped 0.6% body fat but since I started at 7.3% that's an overall reduction of more than 8% BF. If I lose another .6% in the second half of my cycle I'll be a VERY happy camper with a 16% reduction of BF in five weeks (and hopefully a bit more in PCT). And my weight has stayed the same so there's some recomp going on. All that is *IF* my caliper readings are accurate. My electronic scale has gone bonkers with BF readings, the more fit you are the less accurate those POS get.

    I can't say I feel stronger or that I've noticed any major changes. I mentioned in a previous post that my arms increased 3/8" in the last week but that may have been from extra pump due to a change in my routine the day before I measured. I'll know better when I measure again.

    I do feel like my skin is tighter all around. Either due to lean mass increase or fat loss or my imagination. I did my best to get good "before" pics so I'll have a better idea about that when I take my "after" pics.

    I'm going to put a little extra emphasis on ab work in the second half of the cycle to maximize definition
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    I wouldn't start LX until week 3 of PCT, day 15. Cortisol is usually suppressed during the first 2 weeks post cycle. For dosing, cortisol spikes in the morning and again around noon so these are good times for the first 2 doses. Take your 3rd daily dose post workout.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOOFAC View Post
    I wouldn't start LX until week 3 of PCT, day 15. Cortisol is usually suppressed during the first 2 weeks post cycle. For dosing, cortisol spikes in the morning and again around noon so these are good times for the first 2 doses. Take your 3rd daily dose post workout.
    Are you sure about this? I tried for quite some time to get a solid answer and for an oral it sounds like starting cort control on day one of PCT is the way to go. Starting in the third week is more applicable to injectables.

    Check this out - LeanFX!!!!
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    good results so far man! GMG, good job with the info too! if I knew how to give reps, I would
  

  
 

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