First Mass Cycle Critique

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    First Mass Cycle Critique


    You can see my stats in my sig and under my avatar. I plan on cutting in March once my test is back up from the PH cycle I'm coming off of now. To cut I'll go natural for 4 weeks then start a homebrew 1T/4AD transdermal at 6g1T/6g4AD for another 4 weeks. I will follow that with 6OXO & Nolva PCT for 4 weeks. After that I want to start another bulk using AS. I have used before, but it was 2 years ago. Here's the cycle I'm thinking of, let me know what you think:

    Week 1-10 Test Enan @ 500mg/week
    Week 1-10 Proviron @ 25mg/day
    Week 10-13 HCG @ 1500-2000IU every 5-6 days
    Week 12-13 Nolva @ 40mg/day (Will stop HCG at the end of week 13)
    Week 14-15 Nolva @ 20mg/day

    I've seen simmilar cycles ran without Proviron, could I get by without it?

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    I would bump the Test Enan to 750mg a week.
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    I've seen simmilar cycles ran without Proviron, could I get by without it?[/QUOTE]

    Yes you could in my opinion proviron is a bit outdated and I would never use it unless you start seeing sides.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_manifest
    I would bump the Test Enan to 750mg a week.
    On my first cycle?
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    Quote Originally Posted by candle25
    On my first cycle?
    taken at that dose you will basically be replacing your bodys natural level. Unless you run something else with it.
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    500mg is a fine dosage and a good cycle for you. Personally, I like proviron and I find it to be effective. However, proviron is a double edged sword.

    Daily avg. test production ranges from 4-8mg(less than 100mg weekly). 500mg will be doing much more than just replacing your bodys level.
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    i was thinking the same thing but had not read it until i saw your post. Test at 500 mg a week is fine and much more than the daily does of natural test. Not to sure where this info came from? that 500 replaces natural.

    whale
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    Thanks for the knowledge bro's. I'm most likely going to leave the Proviron out as that seems to be what the majority thinks I should do. I have not had any estrogen problems on AS or PH before. I was considering using Proviron based on something I read in Big Cat's steroid profiles:

    The second use is in enhancing the potency of testosterone. Testosterone in the body at normal physiological levels is mostly inactive. As much as 97 or 98 percent of testosterone in that amount is bound to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin, two proteins. In such a form testosterone is mostly inactive. But as with the aromatase enzyme, DHT has a higher affinity for these proteins than testosterone does, so when administered simultaneously the mesterolone will attach to the SHBG and albumin, leaving larger amounts of free testosterone to mediate anabolic activities such as protein synthesis. Another way in which it helps to increase gains. Its also another part of the equation that makes it ineffective on its own, as binding to these proteins too, would render it a non-issue at the androgen receptor.

    I'll use Nolva for any estrogen issues that come up. Like I said this cycle will be ran a while from now. I'm just getting everything together right now.
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    Here is my suggestion. Now it is a little different than the thinking of most people, but I have found it very effective.

    Day 1: 500mg Enanthate 150mg prop
    Day 3: 150mg prop
    Day 5: 250mg Enanthate 150mg prop
    Day 7: 150mg prop
    Day 9: 250mg Enanthate 150mg prop
    Day 11: 150mg prop
    Day 13: 250mg Enanthate 150mg prop
    Weeks 3-10/12 500mg Enanthate (250mg 2x per week) 100mg prop 2/3x per week

    I know it seems like a lot, but during the bulk of the cycle you are only hitting 700-800mg/week. This should keep a nice steady flow of test in your system. Now you did say that you have used AAS before so I think this would be a good stack. If you consider this too much you could always drop the enanthate down to 400mg/week and the prop to 75mg/ shot.
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    I agree 500mg is plenty for a 1st cycle, lets see right now I am running 250mg cyp + 210mg deca every 5 days...and this is by far not my first cycle, if its ONE thing I HAVE learned over the MANY years of using gear and being on these boards high dose cycles are NOT needed...if a persons diet and training are what they should be, which in most cases for most people they are not, great gains can be made off of alot lower doses than most people tend to advocate.....just in case anyone is wondering, me right now, I am around 238-240lbs....granted I am not all that big, but I did it using a fraction of gear than most people use and advise..
    Last edited by Stroyer; 01-01-2004 at 05:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by whale
    i was thinking the same thing but had not read it until i saw your post. Test at 500 mg a week is fine and much more than the daily does of natural test. Not to sure where this info came from? that 500 replaces natural.

    whale
    Sorry I have my info screwed up. I just think personally that a second substance should be used. Like maybe deca.
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    I had considered Deca to stack in there, but as it is the Test is gonna cost a pretty penny. I've seen good gains by others on a Test only cycle and have decided on that solely based on results vs. cost.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_manifest
    Sorry I have my info screwed up. I just think personally that a second substance should be used. Like maybe deca.

    It really is not necessary.

    Test only is perfectly fine.
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    OK. I start this cycle next Mon and I think I want to make an addition. What do you all think of this for a 1st mass cycle? I've used before but it was 4-5 years ago.

    Week 1-10 Test Enan @ 500mg/week
    Week 1-4 Deca @ 200mg/week
    Week 5-10 Deca @ 400mg/week
    Week 10-13 HCG @ 1500-2000IU every 5-6 days
    Week 12-13 Nolva @ 40mg/day (Will stop HCG at the end of week 13)
    Week 14-15 Nolva @ 20mg/day

    I'll prob throw in some clomid too. I'm brewing the deca right now so if you all think it's agood idea I'll brew myself a bottle too.
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    I'd change a few things up due to clearance times of different drugs.
    1-10 500mg enan
    1-4 400mg deca
    5-8 200mg deca
    2-12 500iu HCG 2x a week
    12-14 40mg ed nolva
    14-16 (or 17 even) 20mg ed nolva.
    You can throw clomid in at very low doses (25mg ed) for the first 3-4 weeks of PCT as well.

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
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    Sh1t!!! I almost forgot. Il'll be running dbol at 30mg/day for the 1st 4 weeks too.

    So what about this.

    1-10 500mg enan
    1-4 400mg deca
    1-4 30mg dbol ed
    5-8 200mg deca
    2-12 500iu HCG 2x a week
    12-14 40mg ed nolva
    14-16 (or 17 even) 20mg ed nolva.

    Thanks for the quick reply Manbeast. I have tons of nolva and clomid so its no prob to run them for 6 weeks.
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    That will put a lot of mass on you, I'd have some anti-e on hand to combat any excessive bloat that might rear its head.

    ManBeast
    -Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/192992-pct-what-why.html
    -Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/191120-checklist-before-thinking.html
    *I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
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    You say this is your first cyle, but you say that you have used AAS before. In your first post you said you used them 2 years ago and in your last post said its been 4 years ago. So which is it?
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    F**k if I know. I didn't write it on a calander. If you're looking for someone that makes up BS you''re looking in the wrong place bro. All I know is that it has been a long time since I ran any AAS.
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    Not trying to bust your balls bro. Story was just a little sketchy, so wanted to fill in the blanks.
    The cycle looks like a good bulker. I like to run my test 3 weeks longer than my deca....JMO
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    It's cool. I didn't mean to sound like an a$$ either. I'm just very tired. I had just finished converting 100ml of Deca when I posted that last post. I see people saying things that don't jive out all the time. I might not make sense some times but I am honest..lol. Peace.
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    Quote Originally Posted by candle25
    Thanks for the knowledge bro's. I'm most likely going to leave the Proviron out as that seems to be what the majority thinks I should do. I have not had any estrogen problems on AS or PH before. I was considering using Proviron based on something I read in Big Cat's steroid profiles:

    The second use is in enhancing the potency of testosterone. Testosterone in the body at normal physiological levels is mostly inactive. As much as 97 or 98 percent of testosterone in that amount is bound to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin, two proteins. In such a form testosterone is mostly inactive. But as with the aromatase enzyme, DHT has a higher affinity for these proteins than testosterone does, so when administered simultaneously the mesterolone will attach to the SHBG and albumin, leaving larger amounts of free testosterone to mediate anabolic activities such as protein synthesis. Another way in which it helps to increase gains. Its also another part of the equation that makes it ineffective on its own, as binding to these proteins too, would render it a non-issue at the androgen receptor.

    I'll use Nolva for any estrogen issues that come up. Like I said this cycle will be ran a while from now. I'm just getting everything together right now.
    JMO but I would leave it in and maybe run more while your on the Dbol(50mg ed). Not only does it make the test work better (I can notice the difference) but I think it does the same with Dbol(this is my experience here, haven't read anything on this). The only reason I am not running it now is I am out.

    There are some other benefits as well. I don't have any articles on hand about lipid profiles and Proviron but I now know from using it that doesn't hurt it (adding it and nolva cut mine 40% while on witch is better then the nolva alone). It also keeps your sex drive up even if your shutdown.

    As far as it being dated, well so is test, Dbol, Winny, Deca and so on. Proviron is tried and true with a long history in BB. True its not as powerful as letro or ldex but that is not a bad thing at all. (Again JMO, I have used letro before and it turned out WAY too strong for me)
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    Personally, for a first cycle I would leave the deca out and stick with 10 weeks of 500mg/wk test enanthate jumpstarted with 4 weeks of dbol. I am of the belief that you should use the least amount of AS possible for the desired result, and you will get great results with test e and dbol. Also you want to see if you have any gyno issues with the test e/dbol stack before you start tossing other items into the mix. If you add in deca, and start showing signs of gyno, you won't know which compound is causing it. I'd save the deca for the second or third cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyDevil
    Personally, for a first cycle I would leave the deca out and stick with 10 weeks of 500mg/wk test enanthate jumpstarted with 4 weeks of dbol. I am of the belief that you should use the least amount of AS possible for the desired result, and you will get great results with test e and dbol. Also you want to see if you have any gyno issues with the test e/dbol stack before you start tossing other items into the mix. If you add in deca, and start showing signs of gyno, you won't know which compound is causing it. I'd save the deca for the second or third cycle.
    I agree, don't overcomplicate things on this one, there is no reason to. Strick to:

    weeks 1-12 test enth 500mg (I prefer 10weeks over 12, but whatever)
    weeks 1-4 dbol 30mg daily
    weeks 2-12 500iu HCG 2x weekly

    Keep it simple and effective
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    I noticed that a few of you have reccomended running HCG throughout the cycle. I was planning on doing it post cycle. WHat are the benefits of running it on cycle? I know it helps keep you from totaly shutting down & it is great for getting you running right after a cycle.
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    bascially it can help restore testicular form and function throughout a cycle, by bypassing feedback loops other drugs cannot. It is slightly suppressive, and shouldn't be used entirely throughout post cycle. To read more go to http://www.cuttingedgemuscle.com/Forum/index.php?s= and search for posts with the keyword "HCG" with username "swale". You will learn quite a bit there, as this is his area of expertise.
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    Thanks Jweave! I'll read up on it.
  

  
 

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