3 Months after cycle.

[wood23]

I was just wondering with all the logs here and the great gains most people have made they usually end after pct is finished but i would like to here from all those people have they kept those gains 3 months later.

 

[h0other]

Most people on here are already posting new logs by 3 months after PCT lol.

 

[Zero V]

Most people on here are already posting new logs by 3 months after PCT lol.

Sadly...he is not joking... but its not most, some people do do that though.

You can keep most of your gains depending on how well you eat + train during PCT and after. Some people can even add a few pounds in PCT.

It depends I believe on how close you are to your natural max, and how fast your body recovers. If you recover fast, you will lose less than if your body is struggling to start back up natty test production.

Potentially though on average out of like 15lbs I see people walk away with 11-13 of those being permanent.

this is all IMO and from information I have gained from reading countless logs.

 

[wood23]

This thread might not get alot of people giving examples because people like saying how much they have gained but i guess its not a good feeling talking about your losses which is understandable. Another reason for not giving examples could be getting flamed for not working out hard enough or wrong pct or nutrition which is not the reason for this thread. I am just curious to both sides. If everone was gaining with no loss everyone here would be huuuuuuuuuuuuuuggggggge!!!!!!

 

[Zero V]

This thread might not get alot of people giving examples because people like saying how much they have gained but i guess its not a good feeling talking about your losses which is understandable. Another reason for not giving examples could be getting flamed for not working out hard enough or wrong pct or nutrition which is not the reason for this thread. I am just curious to both sides. If everone was gaining with no loss everyone here would be huuuuuuuuuuuuuuggggggge!!!!!!

Like I said about your natural max. Your body has a natural point where really, your not going to put much more muscle on without the use of Anabolics. The reason not everyone is Huuuuuuge....is because of this max. Normal peeps cant afford money wise or health wise to run AAS year rounds like some of these monster pros.

After your max, yeah after each cycle you kinda go back down. But more often its people who run cycles, and they COULD keep it, but then they drop off their training, or get sick, get injured(ear a bicep or a peck, fracture few ribs, have an operation, etc). Then there is people who might put on 15 pounds during a bulking cycle, then later that year do a hard cut and shave off a good 4% of BF or something. And during a cut its usually gona cost a few pounds of muscle.

If someone who is 150lbs uses a PH and gains 20 LBs, he would have to be mentally retard to lose them....(no offense to anyone -.-) If someone who is 5'10, 220 @like 8%BF puts on 10 pounds with this, I could see them fighting like hell to keep it coming off depending on their build.

It is all a science, and it is dependent highly on the individual.

Again, all IMO

 

[h0other]

Like I said about your natural max. Your body has a natural point where really, your not going to put much more muscle on without the use of Anabolics. The reason not everyone is Huuuuuuge....is because of this max. Normal peeps cant afford money wise or health wise to run AAS year rounds like some of these monster pros.

After your max, yeah after each cycle you kinda go back down. But more often its people who run cycles, and they COULD keep it, but then they drop off their training, or get sick, get injured(ear a bicep or a peck, fracture few ribs, have an operation, etc). Then there is people who might put on 15 pounds during a bulking cycle, then later that year do a hard cut and shave off a good 4% of BF or something. And during a cut its usually gona cost a few pounds of muscle.

If someone who is 150lbs uses a PH and gains 20 LBs, he would have to be mentally retard to lose them....(no offense to anyone -.-) If someone who is 5'10, 220 @like 8%BF puts on 10 pounds with this, I could see them fighting like hell to keep it coming off depending on their build.

It is all a science, and it is dependent highly on the individual.

Again, all IMO

good post.

 

[silverSurfer]

Wood23 feel free to check out my log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/114427-xtreme-tren-solo.html

It is not very popular, doesn't get a lot of traffic, but I am logging post-PCT. The log is for an Xtreme Tren cycle which I started solo, then decided to add SD on the 4th week. I am currently on the first week post-PCT and will continue updating the log for the next four to six weeks.

You'll see in my log I had some work related stress and my diet took a dive. I'm getting back on track now, so my reflection in the mirror should imprve shortly

Regarding the gains at the 3 month mark, some people instead of starting a new cycle, they change routines and do the opposite of what the cycle was about (bulk or cut) so it may be difficult to gauge lean mass retention post cycle.

 

[abuleh]

Did a halo into Epi bridge last summer. Gained unbelievable 20 lbs, kept ca. 12 lbs after PCT (had some water retension/ bloat). Almost 1 year later April 09 I am still holding on to 7 lbs. I am holding the 7lbs since a couple of months now so I think thats bottom line.

~abuleh

 

[Dragon13]

Like I said about your natural max. Your body has a natural point where really, your not going to put much more muscle on without the use of Anabolics. The reason not everyone is Huuuuuuge....is because of this max. Normal peeps cant afford money wise or health wise to run AAS year rounds like some of these monster pros.

After your max, yeah after each cycle you kinda go back down. But more often its people who run cycles, and they COULD keep it, but then they drop off their training, or get sick, get injured(ear a bicep or a peck, fracture few ribs, have an operation, etc). Then there is people who might put on 15 pounds during a bulking cycle, then later that year do a hard cut and shave off a good 4% of BF or something. And during a cut its usually gona cost a few pounds of muscle.

If someone who is 150lbs uses a PH and gains 20 LBs, he would have to be mentally retard to lose them....(no offense to anyone -.-) If someone who is 5'10, 220 @like 8%BF puts on 10 pounds with this, I could see them fighting like hell to keep it coming off depending on their build.

It is all a science, and it is dependent highly on the individual.

Again, all IMO

You serious? You think most of the people logging here are at their natural genetic limits? How about anywhere close, even?

Natural genetic limits (natural max, same thing) - I have a problem with this concept. As in, there's no such thing. Think about this for a second - saying there is a limit as to how much muscle one can put on naturally is tantamount to saying that at a certain point, the body will cease to adapt to external stimulus. Obviously, this is not true at all.

However, one can reach a point where adding new muscle takes such a tremendous amount of work and dedication to not only the iron, but to diet and rest and recovery as well, that gains may slow to a crawl or even stop. That's not to say they can't be made. It just takes a ton more time and effort that, despite the best intentions, people may not have enough of either to make the necessary changes. It's more along the lines of, gains become so hard to come by, people think they're "maxed out".

But again, most people here are nowhere near that level. There are several other reasons why not too many are "hyoooooge" after all these small cycles.

 

[wood23]

Did a halo into Epi bridge last summer. Gained unbelievable 20 lbs, kept ca. 12 lbs after PCT (had some water retension/ bloat). Almost 1 year later April 09 I am still holding on to 7 lbs. I am holding the 7lbs since a couple of months now so I think thats bottom line.

~abuleh

.......The first one to give an example. Thanks for that. How much strength do yo think you have held onto or has that been maintained. I was just wondering has this changed your thinking about your next cycle. eg does it make you wont to do a few cycles a year instead so you dont see a drop in weight or are you happy with 7 pounds a year. I think it could be more common than we think with people holding onto alot less weight after 3-12 months if they dont do another cycle in that time.

 

[wood23]

Wood23 feel free to check out my log http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/114427-xtreme-tren-solo.html
Will do.

It is not very popular, doesn't get a lot of traffic, but I am logging post-PCT. The log is for an Xtreme Tren cycle which I started solo, then decided to add SD on the 4th week. I am currently on the first week post-PCT and will continue updating the log for the next four to six weeks.

You'll see in my log I had some work related stress and my diet took a dive. I'm getting back on track now, so my reflection in the mirror should imprve shortly

Regarding the gains at the 3 month mark, some people instead of starting a new cycle, they change routines and do the opposite of what the cycle was about (bulk or cut) so it may be difficult to gauge lean mass retention post cycle.

Yes. Good point. Checking your log now.

 

[Zero V]

You serious? You think most of the people logging here are at their natural genetic limits? How about anywhere close, even?

Natural genetic limits (natural max, same thing) - I have a problem with this concept. As in, there's no such thing. Think about this for a second - saying there is a limit as to how much muscle one can put on naturally is tantamount to saying that at a certain point, the body will cease to adapt to external stimulus. Obviously, this is not true at all.

However, one can reach a point where adding new muscle takes such a tremendous amount of work and dedication to not only the iron, but to diet and rest and recovery as well, that gains may slow to a crawl or even stop. That's not to say they can't be made. It just takes a ton more time and effort that, despite the best intentions, people may not have enough of either to make the necessary changes. It's more along the lines of, gains become so hard to come by, people think they're "maxed out".

But again, most people here are nowhere near that level. There are several other reasons why not too many are "hyoooooge" after all these small cycles.

then why dont we have guys, who have Perfect diets and training(the top pros) who weight 500 lbs solid muscle. There is a genetic max. Not every heart cane deal with the kind of stress put on it by a body like that. The human body has limits. period.

I would say the biggest issue on any site like I said is because of diet and lazyness, or sickness in between cycles. and cycling too much. And the fact that PH/AAS are used as an enhancement.

But if there is no genetic max, then we should have 500lb, 600lb, 700lb solid hulks of muscle(with 8% BF no less) that their head barely sticks out of the crest of their muscles.... didnt think so.

Every ones body has a cut off point of what their natural "peak" shape is. Personally i believe there is such a thing as too big. For me, I dont wanna hit 200. Too much mass, slows me down.

Stims lose effectiveness, antibiotics lose effectiveness, pain killers lose effectiveness because the body adapts. My dad has been on morphine and other pain meds at doses so high that if I were to apply one of his patches, or comsume his pills it would kill me outright, OD. And now they cant give it to him any stronger, his body is maxed out in that sense. so now that his body has become dull to those things, he is always in some sort of pain. Now he has a needle in his spine to disburse the *pain signals* electronically...

the human body has a max, and it adapts. Other words your saying you can put on 500 lbs of muscle. Technically 1000 lbs of muscle are theoretically possible.

I do remember research pointing to a gene that puts a limiter on our muscle size. That is why some people cant develop the same kinda looking muscles as others.

Again all IMO

 

[getbigbyjune]

But if there is no genetic max, then we should have 500lb, 600lb, 700lb solid hulks of muscle(with 8% BF no less) that their head barely sticks out of the crest of their muscles.... didnt think so."hahahah yes there are dude. their part of the justice league lol hahahhahah. lol and yes their are limits you're retarded. if their weren't limits that we would all be giants and people would be able to get as big as they wanted. Just ask the famous Greg Valentino on what he thinks about limits lol. And if by some how the body doesn't have limits which is absolutely false, God has limits and just like the tower of bable if you don't know where to stop, he'll show you where, just like greg.

 

[abuleh]

.......The first one to give an example. Thanks for that. How much strength do yo think you have held onto or has that been maintained. I was just wondering has this changed your thinking about your next cycle. eg does it make you wont to do a few cycles a year instead so you dont see a drop in weight or are you happy with 7 pounds a year. I think it could be more common than we think with people holding onto alot less weight after 3-12 months if they dont do another cycle in that time.

Yes, I was pretty much able to maintain my strenght, maybe a little decrease. Also I am pretty happy with the 7lbs. I am usually not doing more than 1 or 2 cycles per year.

~abuleh

 

[Dragon13]

then why dont we have guys, who have Perfect diets and training(the top pros) who weight 500 lbs solid muscle. There is a genetic max. Not every heart cane deal with the kind of stress put on it by a body like that. The human body has limits. period.

I would say the biggest issue on any site like I said is because of diet and lazyness, or sickness in between cycles. and cycling too much. And the fact that PH/AAS are used as an enhancement.

But if there is no genetic max, then we should have 500lb, 600lb, 700lb solid hulks of muscle(with 8% BF no less) that their head barely sticks out of the crest of their muscles.... didnt think so.

Every ones body has a cut off point of what their natural "peak" shape is. Personally i believe there is such a thing as too big. For me, I dont wanna hit 200. Too much mass, slows me down.

Stims lose effectiveness, antibiotics lose effectiveness, pain killers lose effectiveness because the body adapts. My dad has been on morphine and other pain meds at doses so high that if I were to apply one of his patches, or comsume his pills it would kill me outright, OD. And now they cant give it to him any stronger, his body is maxed out in that sense. so now that his body has become dull to those things, he is always in some sort of pain. Now he has a needle in his spine to disburse the *pain signals* electronically...

the human body has a max, and it adapts. Other words your saying you can put on 500 lbs of muscle. Technically 1000 lbs of muscle are theoretically possible.

I do remember research pointing to a gene that puts a limiter on our muscle size. That is why some people cant develop the same kinda looking muscles as others.

Again all IMO

1) Come on dude, think for a sec. Building muscle is subject to the law of diminishing returns. As I said, it becomes harder and harder to build muscle as you get more and more advanced. Why don't we have 500-lb slabs of muscle walking around? Because the training, diet, and drug regimen needed to get there would be nearly impossible right now unless one wanted to die an early death, and combined with the time that would be needed to get there, it's virtually impossible in realistic terms. But physiologically, no. All you have to do is answer this one question and you can change my mind: why, at any given weight, would the human body just suddenly cease to adapt to lifting weights?

Look back in the ranks of the pros. 30 years ago, a contest-condition HW checking in at 235 lbs was considered massive. Ronnie won an Olympia a few years back at something like 285+ contest condition (I forget the exact weight). Maybe 30 years from now some guy will step on stage at 320 contest condition - who knows. The point is, there is no arbitrary weight where one just stops growing. Trevor Smith weighed 400+ lbs and wasn't fat. But people like you may have said he was at his "genetic limit" at 300, or 325, or 350. And how would one know anyway? How can you define what this magical limit is for anyone?

2) I get it now. 200 is considered "too big" to you. LOL.

3) This statement is contradictory. My whole point is that the body adapts, and never stops doing so. The story about your dad proves my point: his body continues to adapt to pain meds by increasing his tolerence. He will not suddenly hit a point where a certain amount of pain meds will be effective. He will forever need to increase the dose b/c he continues to adapt. Likewise, gains slow as the trainee gets more and more advanced, so training, diet, recovery, and yes, drugs will forever need to be taken to more and more extreme levels to continue to grow, even a little. But saying it can't happen at arbitrary weight X is flat-out wrong.

Get it???

 

[Dragon13]

But if there is no genetic max, then we should have 500lb, 600lb, 700lb solid hulks of muscle(with 8% BF no less) that their head barely sticks out of the crest of their muscles.... didnt think so."
hahahah yes there are dude. their part of the justice league lol hahahhahah. lol and yes their are limits you're retarded. if their weren't limits that we would all be giants and people would be able to get as big as they wanted. Just ask the famous Greg Valentino on what he thinks about limits lol. And if by some how the body doesn't have limits which is absolutely false, God has limits and just like the tower of bable if you don't know where to stop, he'll show you where, just like greg.

LOL, OK kid. See above.

 

[getbigbyjune]

hahahahahahahhahahha what are you talking about man 200 is HUGE! hahahahahah! jk jk jk yeah im sure in the future we'll have 800lb giants walking around. I mean in the past 40 years look at how much bigger gains have gotten for body builders. lol pretty much im 6'2 and 195. dragon13 how much did u weigh at 18?

 

[Dragon13]

hahahahahahahhahahha what are you talking about man 200 is HUGE! hahahahahah! jk jk jk yeah im sure in the future we'll have 800lb giants walking around. I mean in the past 40 years look at how much bigger gains have gotten for body builders. lol pretty much im 6'2 and 195. dragon13 how much did u weigh at 18?

I'm going to assume that's sarcasm...

As I turned 18 I think I was around 185-190. Over the course of the next year I got to around 205, I think.

 

[getbigbyjune]

nice man howd u do it?

 

[Dragon13]

nice man howd u do it?

We're getting way off topic here. PM me.