New PH FAQ-M 1T and other Methyls
- 12-27-2003, 03:00 AM
New PH FAQ-M 1T and other Methyls
Im guessing this will be moved to stickies, or maybe Chemo et al want to make some changes or add things:
The data contained in this update has been compiled mostly from user feedback along with some data present in compounds that have been released to the public in the past, or information from the pharmacutical companies that created these compounds. It is always a good idea to have a full physical before using these substances, along with having blood work done to check for liver/kidney anamolies.
Methyl 1-Test is 1-testosterone with an alteration to the molecule that allows it to pass through the liver more freely without degredation. When a compound is methylated it changes the physical structure of the compound and it tends to act differently in the body. In the case of methyl 1-test, it seems to be a much stronger anabolic without particularly androgenic sides. Methyl 1-test is being sold in 5mg and 10mg tablets, as well as in powder and solutions. It seems to differ from other methylated compounds such as Winstrol and Dianabol in that it is more stronger mg per mg without very much conversion to DHT. The typical dosing pattern seems to be 5-10mg once daily. Those above 200lbs or experienced steroid/prohormone users might see benefits in 20mg ore more, however the side effects seem to be harsher the more you use. Some of the more common side effects reported are lethargy, decreased appetite, very painful pumps as well as high blood pressure.
Methyl 1-test is a very powerful compound and is not recommended for beginners. This is clearly a drug and should be thought of as such. The only reason this compound is legal is due to the fact that it was never scheduled as a steroid since it was never manufactured, although its chemical structure is very similar to oral Primobolan. Users of methyl 1-test should be on the lookout for increased liver values, high blood pressure, extreme lethargy and pumps, as well as decreased appetite. Methyl 1-test should definintely be stacked with 4AD to help counteract some of these sides and give you the benefits of testosterone supplementation. Users should get blood work done before and after cycles of this compound.
A cycle of methyl 1-test should not last any longer than 6 weeks. However, most users seem to prefer the 2 weeks on/2 weeks off pattern.
This is a relatively new compound on the market. The manufacturer claims that this is a precursor to the powerful steroid trenbolone, however this does not seem to be the case. It does appear to convert to a steroid hormone, but it is not tren. It is a dione so you will have some conversion to estrogen even before it converts to its parent hormone. It is unknown what the anabolic/androgenic ratio of its parent hormone is, how it acts in the body, or if it can aromatize or not. This is a very expensive compound for the amount of gains users are reporting. The dosing seems to be very high, although I am not sure of the dosing pattern at this point. I would personally avoid this product. It is too expensive, with very little feedback.
This testosterone has come on the market recently in the form of transdermals and powder. It is actually nothing like its parent other than the name. It is very mild in terms of anabolic and androgenic potential and would be relatively weak on its own. However, this compound has some very interesting attributes that make it very different from all the other steroids on the market. With the 4 hydroxl position on the molecule, it has the added benefit of not converting to estrogen or DHT. This would make it very similar to the compound Clostebol and ideal for cutting when used on its own. It also has the very interesting attribute of being a mild aromatize inhibitor and 5AR inhibitor (which prevents conversion of testosterone to DHT). One of its metabolites is Formastane (4 hydroxy androstenedione) which is also an aromatize inhibitor. It has also been claimed that this compound will stimulate LH output, which would be great for bridging inbetween cycles and obviously not cause any form of supression. However, I have not seen any data to confirm this.
This compound appears to be very weak on its own. With the high price per gram for the powder, it would be a poor choice to use on its own. It does stack well with any other compounds, and like everything else would be optimally used with 4AD where it would impart very lean gains with virtually no sides. Since this is such a new compound, I really have no idea on what the dosing pattern would be. I would expect to see a methylated version of this on the market soon. As with all other steroids, this would be a very poor oral compound. It would probably be best used transdermally. Making it into an injectable seems to be very troublesome, as it is not very oil soluble without an ester.
This compound is the same as a steroid known as Oxabolone which has been off the market for years. It has the attributes of being quite anabolic and not very androgenic. It cannot make the conversion to DHN, which is a relatively weak on its own anyway. It has also been speculated that this steroid acts as an aromatize inhibitor, like Hydroxy Testosterone, but I have seen no evidence for this either.
Most information on this steroid seems to be speculation. Since it is a nandrolone derivative, it might have progesteronal activity. Also, since there is so little feedback on this compound it is hard to say. It would probably be similar to the popular steroid Deca, albeit weaker. It might make a closer match to trenbolone in activity, but there is little evidence to suggest that at this point. With the other compounds, any information on dosage is speculation at this point. A methylated compound known as 17aa 4OHN is soon to be replaced. I have heard claims that this should be similar to Anavar at an even lower dosage. However, this has not been released yet, so we will have to wait and see. As with all methylated compounds, one would want to take similar precautions when using these types of oral based steroids.
Hydroxy Nandrolone is illegal in California and Nevada, but not federally schedulled.
Another methylated version of an older prohormone, methyl 5AA should be a similar match to Proviron or Masteron. This compound will make a conversion to DHT in the liver through the 3bHSD enzyme. It should be very well suited as a preworkout stimulant, as well as reducing the effects of estrogen and SHBG on a cycle. Since DHT acts as an aromatize inhibitor, it can help reduce circulating estrogen on a cycle in leu of typical anti-estrogens such as Nolvadex or 6OXO. Oral DHT has also been shown to bind to SHBG, allowing for more of other more powerful androgens to attach to the receptor, allowing for an overall more anabolic effect.
One problem with DHT and its precursors is the fact that they are deactivated in skeletal muscle through the 3 alpha HD enzyme to prohormones like 5AA and 3 alpha. This seems to happen when an abundance of androgens exist, and is why DHT, even more potent than testosterone, does not make for a great muscle builder. Another concern for its users is the strong androgenic effets of DHT. This would obviously be a concern with individuals with potential prostate issues or androgenic alopecia. However, since this prohormone is making a conversion in the liver, instead of high 5AR saturated areas like the scalp and prostate, it would probably not have as many negative side effects as even typical 4AD/testosterone would.
The dosage seems to be in the low range. Anywhere from 5-30mg anytime of day would work. It sounds like it would be particularly beneficial preworkout, where it would impart some of the positive benefits on neural activity, giving the user added aggression, energy and strength to have a better workout. As with all methylated compounds, similar precaution should be taken of not running the compound for more than 6 weeks and having blood work done to ensure the liver is in proper working function.
Here we have a methylated version of the boldenone precursor, 1,4diol. In this version, the methylated version of the diol prohormone has been used instead of the dione. This will allow the hormone only direct conversion to its parent hormone, methylboldenone (Methandrostenolone) better known as Dianabol. Since this is a direct precursor to Dianabol, I would expect the same effects of it such as bloating, water retention and the high possibily of gyno. This is due to the fact that boldenone can aromatize into estrogen, here we would have a more powerful methylated estrogen, Methyl-estradiol. This would obviously be a very good mass builder, imparting gains in size and strength in a very short peroid of time. Obviously, quite a bit of it will be water though. Just as you would run Dianabol, you would want to stack it around 4AD/testosterone. You would want to have a good anti-estrogen on hand such as Nolvadex or Arimidex.
Dosage for this compound has not been determined yet, but should probably be in the same range we've seen the other methylated prohormones. Again, you would not want to use this for more than 6 weeks and have blood work done once the cycle is completed.
- 12-27-2003, 03:01 AM
As if you didn't see this one coming, we now have a methylated version of our favorite prohormone, 4AD. The problem with this hormone, is it will directly convert to methyltestosterone, which is a very poor compound. Methyltestosterone will aromatize to methyl-estradiol and convert to methyl-DHT. The sides of these would obviously be much harsher than using its non methylated counterpart. The only positive effect I could see from methyl-4AD would be if it had instrinsic anabolic activity before conversion, which we have no idea about. The other good use for this would be as a preworkout boost, where we would have the added aggression and CNS stimulating effects of 4AD. Just using it preworkout would allow us to get the benefits, without the negatives, along with relatively no HPTA shutdown.
Dosage for this compound has not been determined yet, but should probably be in the same range we've seen the other methylated prohormones. I have seen dosages recommended for 5-30mg daily. Again, you would not want to use this for more than 6 weeks and have blood work done once the cycle is completed.
Products Not Yet on the Market
I have added a few products I would expect to see out soon. Some of these may never come to light, but most probably will. So I decided to through them in anyway.
This compound should be fairly similar to the unpopular steroid Nilevar. Being a direct precursor to methyl-nandrolone, we would see increases in methyl-estradiol and methyl-DHN. Giving us a weak anabolic with more sides than we would expect from this weaker hormone. I would also expect there to be progestonal activity with this. So, although this seems to be another poor compound, it might have some good use in women or as a preworkout booster.
Methyl Hydroxy Testosterone
I would expect this to be similar to 17aa 4OHN. It will probably be very similar to Oral Turnibol where as it won't convert to estrogen or DHT, it will impart gains on strength and hardness, rather than mass gains.
A Word About Methylated Compounds
I feel we are now at the pinnacle of prohormone development. We now have prohormones/steroids that are methylated for almost complete bioavaibility. This is obviously a dream come true for individuals looking for true legal alternatives to illegal steroids. However, we need to realize that these are drugs in the true sense of the word. These can be very dangerous if misused or abused. It is imparitive that people think of these as drugs instead of typical OTC supplements that you can take lightly and not be concerned about possibly bodily harm.
It is very easy to rationalize the fact that hepatoxicity doesn't happen, or that it happens in very minute amounts, but when we look at studies dealing with oral steroids we only have ones that we have seen on the market for years. With methyl 1-test and others, we have no idea if they are as hepatoxic as Halotestin or as mild as Proviron. It is always a good idea to get blood work done before and after a cycle to ensure that your liver is in proper health and you do not have underlying conditions that could be slowly killing you. Please be safe, and respect that these are powerful chemicals with potential to cause great gains as well as harm your body.
A Word About Liver Protectants
A lot of people have been using liver protectant supplements such as Silymarin and NAC to help protect their liver from damage when using methylated compounds. However, I feel that this is a bad idea. When you use compounds that increase gluthione levels in the liver, it will increase the breakdown of oral drugs, making them less effective. Although increasing liver enzymes is good for your liver, it is bad for any drugs you want to take and allow them to pass through your liver unabated. A better idea would be to use liver protectant supplements before and after a cycle to help your liver rebuild its enzymes after they have been damaged by methylated compounds.
I have no idea if using liver protectants on a cycle will inhibit gains in any significant degree, but it could. Keep that in mind when planning your cycle.
- 12-27-2003, 05:18 AM
Very nice FAQ.
So in that last paragraph, you might be referring to the newly added NAC to M1T. What do you think about this?
12-27-2003, 06:03 AM
Good post Pro. I would also like to see dosages for the various liver protectants. Or possibly a link to where they can be found.
12-27-2003, 07:43 AM
12-27-2003, 07:54 AM
12-27-2003, 02:59 PM
Since they are orals and have no esters, they will still have a short half-life. But, they wont need to be dosed 4-5 times a day like 4-ad. No one is real sure on the half-life, Im guessing anywhere from 3-8 hours on most compounds.
12-28-2003, 07:32 AM
12-28-2003, 03:58 PM
12-28-2003, 06:47 PM
Liver protectors off cycle only eh?
Thats the way i think about it too.
But some "other people" dont feel the same way. They have even added the liver protectors into the M1T.
How can we find evidence of liver protectors and their effects on methylated compounds.? hmmm
12-29-2003, 08:57 PM
have someone use them while on cycle and get their blood levels checked. although you wold really want to know if it does make them less effective. The other idea is, you could use the glass of grapefruit juice in the a.m. idea which is suppossed to make methyls more effective and that would allow for a smaller amount used.
12-29-2003, 09:19 PM
I can't stand grapefriut juice! I'll just use more. I can feel the flames coming alreadyOriginally Posted by Designer Supps
12-30-2003, 03:39 AM
What!!??? Grapefruit juice may increase my gains?Originally Posted by Designer Supps
I am going to do a search!!!
As the king would say "I'll be Bock"
12-30-2003, 04:06 AM
12-30-2003, 11:26 AM
I've seen basskiller comment on the grapefruit and methlylated substances. His website might be a good place to look.
01-04-2004, 05:35 PM
01-04-2004, 05:48 PM
01-04-2004, 07:10 PM
So you're sayign mixing M1T powder into grapefruit juice and pinning it will turn me into the Hulk? Just kidding.
Nice article. Kudos to Prolangtum. I've been curious about the newer/potential methyls that might come out.
01-04-2004, 07:12 PM
I will let you know how my stack of M1,4ADD and M5AA goes, I should probably start it in a couple weeks. Or whenever I get it from sledge.
01-04-2004, 08:25 PM
01-05-2004, 03:38 PM
don't know why but this subject kinda reminds me of when "X" became so popular back in the early 90's and everybody was guzzling "OJ" with it.Originally Posted by Designer Supps
I drank so much OJ one time I got sick........well maybe it was a bad tab too?!@?
01-05-2004, 03:40 PM
01-05-2004, 06:22 PM
01-05-2004, 08:36 PM
01-06-2004, 02:43 AM
yes.. the site looks grand..
i love this stuff... anyway you can produce something similar to cheq drops?
01-06-2004, 12:53 PM
one guy died from drinking a bunch of grapefruit juice & mixing it with his 24 hr antihistimines. i was kind of concerned with all the reports of kidney/liver possibilities? with the standard dosing of m1t & amplifying it up maybe 500%. maybe nothing.
01-11-2004, 01:34 PM
Bergamottin or Naringinin?
Yeah, I have heard that something in grapefruit peel blocks liver enzymes. I think active compound is Bergamottin or Naringinin. I am not sure which.
BTW, IDS sells bergamottin tabs and named it "Anabolic Amplifier".
I expect this to have the same or even better effect than grapefruit juice. What do you guys think?
01-13-2004, 12:48 PM
01-15-2004, 02:03 PM
01-15-2004, 02:08 PM
01-21-2004, 04:08 PM
since this is the FAQ, what is the proper administration date and duration of nolvadex PC, say 2 weeks on 2 off cycles?
02-11-2004, 08:12 PM
04-08-2004, 05:38 PM
i was thinking a good thread would be to give beginner cycles of all the new compounds available.
like what to stack with the new methyls...
what would be good for bulking and for cutting and starting dosages...
kind of what big cat did when he did the article on prohormones....
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