This Is Your Liver...
- 12-26-2003, 08:13 PM
This Is Your Liver...
THIS IS YOUR LIVER ON METHYL-1-TEST!!!
I started a cycle of Legal Gear M1T only, 20mg/day (1tab approx. every 12 hours)
12/24/03 Blood drawn about 7.5 hours after ingestion of first tab, 25 min. after (a rather ****ty) chest and bicep workout. (All units of measurement will be listed on this post only) Total Bilirubin 1.2 mg/dl; Direct Bilirubin 0.2 mg/dl; ALP 79 IU/L; GGT16 IU/L; LD 192 IU/L; AST 52 IU/L (high, normal:15-41); ALT 49 IU/L; (end liver) Cholesterol 105mg/dL; Triglycerides 27mg/dl; Testosterone 436.77 ng/dl; Estradiol 43.18 pg/ml; LH 3.18 mIU/mL; FSH 0.64 mIU/ml; Progesterone 0.59 ng/ml; Prolactin 17.01 ng/ml ( up from 6.86 on 12/17) WBC 7.78 K/uL; RBC 5.56 M/uL; HCT 49.6-51.1 (ran twice, pretty high but it was the same on 12/12 when I was off cycle)
12/26/03 Day 3 Blood drawn about 11 hours after dosing, 5 hours after half a leg workout (I attempted to start OVT(Christian Thibadeau) today, squat's and lunges were incredible, strength was great, pump was sick, I got to one-legged back extensions, and I don't know if I was using poor form or if it was the M1T because I've been doing these for a while now with great success, but my lower back started hurting like a motherfu#@$% and I felt really lightheaded and naucious, so I stopped after three sets, there was no way I could deadlift so I went home) Anyway, Total Bilirubin 1.0; Direct Bilirubin 0.2; ALP 64; GGT 13; LD 229(high, norm 98-192); AST 57(higher); ALT 54; Cholesterol 80; Triglycerides 7; Testosterone 39.10 (it's working); Estradiol 6.9 ; LH 0.57, FSH 0.60; Progesterone 0.70; Prolactin 11.33; PSA 0.39 ng/ml; WBC 12.4; RBC 5.77; HCT 51.2
Well after 3 days I am definitely suppressed. What I find most interesting though, is that my WBC count went from 7.78 to 12.4 in three days. So either I caught something or there is definitely some truth to the "1-test flu". As far as the liver is concerned, levels are elevated but only slightly. My liver enzymes were WAY higher than this on T1-Pro, but that was a couple of weeks into my first cycle. I'll give it some time. Also I'll try to draw my next sample at 1 hour after dosing, to see if that makes a difference. But if my liver stays normal, than 60mg here i come!!!(J/K )
- 12-27-2003, 01:25 AM
Originally Posted by supersoldier
- 12-27-2003, 02:01 AM
Originally Posted by x_muscle
well atleast that is good news for now, will shut up all those that say it is a liver killer.
12-27-2003, 02:51 AM
Hey cool, you can plot changes over time. On any of your previous cycles, did you get figures post-cycle? It would be interesting to see just how fast everything really recovers.Originally Posted by supersoldier
12-27-2003, 08:53 AM
Damn bro, those blood tests must have been expensive. I had one ran before and it was around $300! Great info though. So you think there is a corelation between the increase in WBC and the onset of the flu that everyone keeps talking about? I'm just coming of a differet PH cycle and I've been sick as hell for almost 2 weeks. I went to the doc and got 2 shots and 10 days worth of antibiotics. You better do all you can to prevent a full blown illness. It sucks to get put out of training by a sickness!
12-27-2003, 03:41 PM
12-27-2003, 04:33 PM
12-27-2003, 04:41 PM
I work in a lab, so they're free. As for the WBC count, the body does not almost double the amount of WBC's its producing in three days, unless it senses something wrong. Could be caused by a number of things like bacterial infection, virus, ect., but it's definitely an immune response. IMO it's possible that the lymph nodes and/or bone marrow can kick out more WBC's just because it senses something foreign, like the M1T, but I can't really say if it's directly the M1T itself, or if the M1T does something to the immune system which makes you more susceptible to infection, or if it's just a strange coincidence that I catch something 3 days into a cycle. I don't have any symptoms of being sick, at the moment. I'm at work now so I'll try to get some tests done again.Originally Posted by candle25
12-27-2003, 04:48 PM
Thanks, that is excellent. It will be interesting to see in 2 weeks how this stuff really compares to 1-T for liver. Plus further out, how fast cholesterol gets back to normal.Originally Posted by supersoldier
12-27-2003, 05:20 PM
My cholesterol hasn't changed much, up or down, not to say that it won't. 80 is really good, especially with the amount of eggs I eat. (normal <200)
12-27-2003, 06:54 PM
12-27-2003, 07:06 PM
12-28-2003, 06:42 PM
id like to see how the liver values are after say 4 or 6 weeks at 20mg... something along those lines.. getting the test done like 4 weeks after to see if there were any permanent effects.
12-28-2003, 10:26 PM
could you make a list of all the enzymes you tested in the first post and give a normal range they should fall in?
example: ALT=54 normal range ##-##
maybe not with all of them but the more important ones?
12-29-2003, 12:48 AM
Liver emzymes tend to be elevated in weight lifters in general. The concern should lie in the levels before and after.
12-29-2003, 03:01 AM
LD: 98-192 IU/L; AST: 15-41 IU/L; ALT:14-63 IU/L; GGT:7-50 IU/L; CK: 38-234 IU/L; ALP: 38-126IU/L; TBIL:0.4-2.0 mg/dl; DBIL:0.1-0.5mg/dl; ALB:3.5-4.8 g/dl
Day 5: Blood drawn 1hr, 15min. after dosing, taken with 50g protein shake and 1/2 cup sunflower seeds. LD 323, AST 158, ALT 146, ALP 56, GGT 9, TBIL 0.9, DBIL 0.3, CK 4095(CK is an enzyme marker that can be elevated during myocardial infarctions, but also is a sign of muscle damage, whether chronic(disease), or acute(heavy training or injury), and I've been doing OVT which involves lots of negatives, and I've worked out the past 3 days, and it was this high last time I did OVT, so I'm not too worried), ALB 3.7, cholesterol 48, triglycerides 20, testosterone 24.49, estradiol 24.82, LH 0.00, FSH 0.02, PSA 0.40, Prolactin 10.50, Progesterone 0.89
I'm gonna make a bold, but to me, obvious statement. The reason why you feel like **** on 1Test/M1t is because you have less testosterone than a pre-adolescent girl. Simple as that. Dose enough 4AD or testosterone to get yourself in the normal range, and you'll feel fine. Liver enzymes are on the rise. Cholesterol is very low, but I have been slacking on the egg intake the past few days. Fat from sunflower seeds and flax oil is high as ever, though. Workouts have been good, strength is still great, pumps are through the roof. Set a new PR on Hammer Strength shrugs for 5 straight sets. I might wanna add that I am taking 3 scoops of GO AND Lipo6 (2caps) preworkout.
12-29-2003, 03:22 AM
This is true concerning whether or not you are doing lasting damage to your liver, but levels will rise while on if the compound is toxic to your liver, which is what I'm looking for. Before this cycle everything to do with my liver was in the normal range except for AST which was only very slightly high, falling from being very high during my last cycle.Originally Posted by size
12-29-2003, 05:00 AM
Do you feel the second workout before the second test was much more taxing on more area of muscles than the first?
12-29-2003, 05:55 AM
Today was bi's and tri's, the first time was legs, so no. But after three days in a row of heavy sets of 5 and heavy negatives I'm sore from head to toe.Originally Posted by ex_banana-eater
12-30-2003, 06:24 PM
I'd like to thank you for taking advantage of your workplace and going through all this trouble to let us know your results! Great info to have.
12-30-2003, 06:42 PM
He's only been on for 3 days. Try taking the test after 4 weeks.Originally Posted by x_muscle
For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
12-30-2003, 06:55 PM
Day 7, 6.5 hrs after dosing, AST 171, ALT 238, LD 304, GGT 10, ALP 47, TBIL 0.8, DBIL 0.2, ALB 4.0, Cholesterol 45, Triglycerides 16. PSA, Progesterone, Estradiol, and Prolactin are running now, but probably won't be done until I leave here. I'm not gonna do testosterone, LH, FSH anymore depending on who's working, because people look at me funny when they come up NIL.
Today was delts, and OH MY GOD, the pump was like somebody was stabbing me repeatedly. Strength was awesome. I can't wait for chest and back day. I got my powders from sldge today (M5AA and M1T), so depending on how long it takes for me to put it in solution I'm gonna try out the M5AA on this cycle. It'll be interesting to see what two methyls will do to enzymes.
12-30-2003, 08:00 PM
Are you handy with excel spreadsheets? If so, it would be interesting to see how these look over time once your cycle is complete, say as follows:
Dosage |xx mg/day| | xx mg/day| =====>
|Range | | Week 1 | | Week 2 | ==> |1 Week PCT | |2 Weeks PCT|
If not, I'm handy with Excel, and we could post it here as an attachment (I think?) It would be a lot easier to follow that way.
12-30-2003, 08:40 PM
12-30-2003, 09:40 PM
Oh yeah, my WBC is back down to 7.85. So much for the 1-test flu, for me anyway. And I've never used Excel, but it would be awesome if someone else would do the spreadsheets.
12-31-2003, 12:34 AM
will you be doing your tests through your pct and see how long it takes on nolva or whatever you have to get your test levels back up? thats really about all i'm interested in, and so many others i'm sure also
12-31-2003, 12:55 AM
Yeah, I'll be using nolva and post my hormone levels every other day or so. I still haven't decided on whether I'm gonna go for 4 weeks or longer on this cycle or cut it at two weeks. The only logic in going for 2 weeks is that anything methyl, and especially M1T, is SOOOOO liver toxic, but I was expecting the values to be a lot higher. In fact I might even bump up to 30 or even 40mg after two weeks. Like I said the first time I did T1-Pro my enzymes were much higher than now and I tested myself somewhere towards the end of a 4 week cycle at 1 squirt 2X/day.Originally Posted by 2gcorey
01-01-2004, 07:30 PM
01-01-2004, 07:31 PM
Good article on lab tests http://www.t-mag.com/articles/213how2.html AST can be 20 times higher than the normal range during liver inflamation or damage, and it was something like 15 times the high end of the normal range about 3 weeks into my first T1-Pro cycle at 1 squirt 2X/day about 6 months ago.
01-03-2004, 12:28 AM
Day 10: Blood drawn about 15 min after dosing, about 10hrs after this mornings dose. After 3 months of not a sip of alcohol, on New Year's Eve I drank about 1/5 a bottle of Tanqueray No.10 and 4 glasses of wine. LD 340, AST 129, ALT 189, ALB 3.8, ALP 55, GGT 10, CK 4020, cholesterol 54, triglycerides 27, PSA 0.44, Progesterone 0.49, LH 0.00, FSH 0.23, Prolactin 7.92
Strength is noticeably up still, pump is painfully awesome as always, and my lower back hurt like a sonofabitch today again, but I managed to deadlift through it and got some pretty decent weight for sets of 5. Also I got my M5AA powder, it came in a bag, and there's residue all on the inside of the bag. For the past two days I got a tiny bit of the powder off a very small area of the bag with my finger and licked it off. Probably wasn't enough to do anything but it had a good placebo effect. I'd rather do way too little than way too much, and I couldn't just leave it sit there, the bag was calling to me, lol
Last edited by supersoldier; 01-03-2004 at 01:12 AM.
01-03-2004, 12:33 AM
Also I ran a BNP to see if that outrageously high CK could be my heart, and it was 6.2 pg/ml (normal 0-100), so looks like I'm in the clear.
01-03-2004, 12:38 AM
01-03-2004, 01:11 AM
On M1T I had total shutdown after 3 days. On T1-Pro my testosterone was usually in the low normal range, like 240ish, but I'm that was from the 4AD in the T1-Pro I'm sure, because my LH was still less than 1. For about my first two weeks post T1-Pro cycle my LH was 0.00-0.03. I'd say that M1T suppresses you harder, faster, but suppression is suppression no matter how you look at it. The time to suppress you will be faster with a fast acting, powerful oral like M1T, than it will be for a transdermal or even a long ester IM, because the levels of exogenous hormone need to build up over time. I'd also venture a guess that LH and endogenous test will recover faster coming off an oral only cycle, because the steroid will be out of your system that much faster, even if your on for a decent amount of time.Originally Posted by mass_builder
01-03-2004, 06:40 AM
01-03-2004, 07:28 AM
Do you know if PC1 is charting this on the Excell spreadsheet he mentioned? If he's not, I will. It is kind of difficult to keep up with all these values between posts. Just shoot me PM & I'll get to work.
01-03-2004, 11:26 AM
Here is an Excell spreadsheet showing the trends. Key:
Lt blue line = Average of values
Dk blue line = Trend
UPL = Upper limmit of Normal
LPL = Lower limmit of normal
Supersoldier, I didn't graph everything you tested for. If you'd like to see something else graphed let me know & I'll change it. Also, you'll need Excell before you can open this spreadsheet.
01-03-2004, 12:01 PM
01-03-2004, 12:45 PM
Can anyone experienced with AAS comment on the test suppression of t1-pro/m-1-t? Total or near total suppression after a 4 week cycle seems terribly severe seeing that typical AAS cycles last 8-12 weeks.
01-03-2004, 07:53 PM
01-03-2004, 08:40 PM
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