Planning H-drol, Furazadrol, M-drol cycle
- 03-20-2009, 03:50 PM
- 03-20-2009, 03:52 PM
H-drol: 100-150mg/day, Weeks 1-6
M-drol: 10-20mg/day, Weeks 4-6
Furazadrol you could drop. I think it would be a little pointless. Save it for a recomp later on. Have you looked into MMV2 at all?
What's your weight and diet like?
- 03-22-2009, 09:20 PM
I have not looked into MMV2 at all actually. I weigh about 175 and my diet is really clean. I stay away from most carbs centering them around my workout and consume about 200 grams of protein a day. Moderate fat intake.
03-22-2009, 09:30 PM
I would dose it at
50mg e.d of h-drol
20mg e.d. of m-drol
100mg e.d. of furazadrol
25mg of hd/ 10mg of sd/ 50mg of furazabol pre-workout
25mg hd/ 10mg sd/ 50mg of furzabol 6-8 hrs later.
but thats me.
03-22-2009, 10:45 PM
03-22-2009, 11:19 PM
Ya, the HD and Furaz doses are too low, and M-drol is too high. I think for a cycle with this many orals you need to keep M-drol at 10mg.
03-22-2009, 11:37 PM
i would keep fura at 300 hdrol maybe around 75 and mdrol 10 maybe 20. which is ur key DS. hdrol or mdrol? which is ur supporting 2nd and ur supporting 3rd?
03-23-2009, 01:59 AM
25mg hd + 10mg sd pre workout isn't high. it's perfect, if you run fura by itself, yea maybe, but not with two other anabolics.
I was just speaking from my experience from stacking multiple methylated ph's and pro hormones. if you have enough fura to go 200mg e.d that would be great. but expensive.
but 50mg of hd and 20mg of sd each day is enough, and will give you awsome results, but if you are more prone to sides, then go light. Im not, everyone is different. good luck.
03-23-2009, 09:44 AM
honestly this is the best edvice given
H-drol: 100-150mg/day, Weeks 1-6
M-drol: 10-20mg/day, Weeks 4-6
from irish cannon
its pretty strong though but should give good gains.
03-23-2009, 09:50 AM
03-23-2009, 10:05 AM
Yea I have had great results using 20 mg of SD but have not used h-drol or fura ever and have heard great things about them.
03-23-2009, 11:12 AM
H-drol: 100-150mg, Weeks 1-6
M-drol: 10-20mg, Weeks 4-6
MMV2: 4 pre-workout, Weeks 1-6
03-23-2009, 11:35 AM
ya furaza looks good on paper but when u take it u have to go super high dosage i heared on this site i belive its like 2x ur lbs in weight. if ur 200 dose fura at 400. just stick to irish cannons cycle
03-23-2009, 12:12 PM
Yea that setup looks pretty solid. I must say LG Sciences has gotten there stuff together lately so MMV2 might be worth the try. I gave T-911 a try and that was a great test booster.
03-23-2009, 01:33 PM
03-23-2009, 02:11 PM
T-911 is awesome. I've seen absolutely ZERO bad reviews on it. One guy said he couldn't mix it with his anti-depressant medication, but that's something different entirely. It says right on the bottle not to do that.
03-23-2009, 02:44 PM
i have been trying to decide weather to run h-drol or m-drol what would the difference be running them together. form what i have read h-drol is more for cutting losing fat and m-drol is more of a bulking one. would having them together just even it out a bit?
03-23-2009, 03:33 PM
M-drol will get you surprisingly cut actually. The first time I took it the pumps were insane and I lost body fat.
03-23-2009, 04:09 PM
There is no hormone that will get you "cut." That's all relative to your diet. There are "dry" hormones (Winstrol, Hdrol, Mdrol, MMV2, Epi, Anavar, etc.) and "wet" compounds (Test, PheraPlex, Dbol, Anadrol, etc.). The dry hormones are better to run during a cut, but again, it doesn't make a huge difference. Weight loss is all diet dependent.
03-23-2009, 04:18 PM
i don't think you need hdrol
Mdrol and fura will give you the same results if you have the money.
Maybe drop the hdrol and increase the fura to 300?
week 2-6 10 20 20 20
fura 1-6 200 200 200 300 300 300
03-24-2009, 09:48 AM
A. Hdrol 50/75/75/100/100
B. Hdrol 50/75/75/75/75/100
MMV2 4/4/5/5/6/6 or 6/6/6/6/6/6
C. Hdrol 50/75/75/75/75/100
Furaz 300/300/300/300/300/300 (can obtain this for about $80)
D. Furaz 300/300/300/300/300/300
E. MMV2 4/4/5/5/6/6 or 6/6/6/6/6/6
or some other configuration. These are basically the options I'm seeing be proposed in here and am just curious as to what people would choose for the most LBM gains and bf reduction.
03-24-2009, 11:25 AM
03-24-2009, 01:22 PM
03-24-2009, 01:28 PM
03-24-2009, 04:29 PM
03-25-2009, 08:19 PM
anytime you run a methylated steroid over 90mg e.d., hepatotoxicity becomes an issue. even if hdrol is mild.
I'm normally defending dosages of 30mg of sd, or 75mg of hd etc.. but 125mg or higher of hdrol for even 4 weeks, I would never recomend that.
studies show you can fun 90mg of 17aa steroids each day for up to 6 weeks before hepatotoxicity becomes an issue, 50mg of hdrol ed, 20mg of sd, 150-200mg of furaza would give you the safest gains without having to worry about your liver.
but hey, more gains more sides, maybe you'll get huuuuge running hdrol at those dosages, but why? when it isn't needed by itself that high.
03-25-2009, 08:49 PM
03-25-2009, 08:52 PM
03-25-2009, 09:00 PM
03-26-2009, 12:46 AM
By: Roy Harper
NOTE: The opinions below are the author's only and may not represent the opinion of Bodybuilding.com. It is important for you to research all sides of an issue and consult your doctor before taking any medical advice.
We all know that the alpha alkylated steroids are hepatotoxic, right... But, is there actually any truth to this? We've been told for years that if you take 17 alpha-alkylated steroids, you will eventually run into liver problems. Never combine 17 aa's, never go beyond 50mg day, never go longer than 4 weeks, etc. All of this is crap! As I we walk you through some studies, today, you'll see 17 alpha-alkylated steroids can be hepatotoxic but not to the degree you would think.
To make a steroid hepatotoxic, you need only a small change to a steroid molecule; A strong bond that cannot readily be down broken by enzymes in the liver. This may be a bond at the 17th position, or even at the 1st position (as in methenolone or proviron). Because the liver cannot easily break the steroid down before it is released in to the blood stream, this also results in the steroid to becoming more orally bio-available.
We can see that the liver has to work harder to break down these steroids. Enzymes in the blood and tissue easily metabolize other steroids such as Testosterone. Commonly, this increase in liver activity has been viewed as a harmful process, but as you will see, this increase is, in and of itself, irrelevant. The liver is THE filter of the human body -- it can figure out what to do with just about anything. The only real problem comes in when one keeps their liver at full blast for long periods of time.
Let's look at some studies showing the hepatotoxicity of steroids. Here's one of my favorites, a study published in 1979. Essentially, researches did a study of deaths caused by hepatic angiosarcoma (a malignant tumor of vascular tissue in the liver) between 1964 and 1974. Researchers found 131 reported cases of death from hepatic angiosarcoma. Out of the 131 cases, 3.1% (4 cases) were reported to be at all related to the use of androgenic-anabolic steroids. Keep in mind that these 4 people could have liver complications before any steroids were used, aka a genetic disposition. In fact there is no proof, in this study at least, that the anabolic-androgenic steroids even caused the hepatic angiosarcoma.
This is the classic case of associating a cause with an effect, without any evidence, aside from both existing. Furthermore, based on the above numbers, there are only 0.4 cases of hepatic angiosarcoma reported each year, by those using AAS. Now consider the number of people on steroids at this time. Now factor in all the people that don't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to using AAS, properly. Clearly, this is very week evidence. Lastly there has not been a real increase in hepatic angiosarcoma since the early seventies. Meanwhile, there has been a huge, almost exponential, increase in steroid use during this period.
Another study, that somewhat supports the previous hepatotoxicity case, showed the possibilities of hepatic adenomas(cysts in the liver) caused by androgenic-anabolic steroids. In this study, a Japanese girl was found to have multiple liver lesions after the use of the drug oxymetholone (aka Anadrol).
Most everyone "knows" that Anadrol is linked with liver problems, but a closer inspection into this study shows more. Apparently, this girl, starting at the age of 14, was diagnosed with aplastic anemia. She was prescribed oxymetholone at 30mg per day. This continued for 6 years until the lesions first appeared. Assuming that the girl was most likely around 100 lbs., this was a pretty heavy dosage. If you extrapolated this data out to a 200 - 250lbs. male, that would be taking approximately 60 - 90mg of anadrol per day for 6 years. Ouch!
The researchers also stated that there were only 17 other cases of hepatic adenomas, found in English literature between 1975 and 1998. They failed to mention the causes of these 17 cases, but there is no reason to believe they were all using 17-AA androgens and 17 is certainly miniscule compared to the number of people who have used them. The authors' finish off the study by saying the following: "This report may be helpful in identifying the population who is at risk of developing hepatic sex hormone-related tumors." So remember, if you're a small 14-year-old girl taking 30mg of Anadrol per day for 6 years, you may be at risk!
Let's move on to some more useful studies. Take for example a 1995 study that showed the toxic effects of anabolic-androgenic steroids in primary rat hepatic cell cultures. In this study the researchers used the following drugs and dosages:
As proof of the hepatoxicity they used Lactate dehydrogenase release, neutral red retention, and glutathione depletion to determine plasma membrane damage, cell viability, and possible oxidative injury, respectively.
What they showed was that the 17 alpha-alkylated steroids, methyltestosterone, stanozolol and oxymetholone, significantly increased Lactate dehydrogenase release and decreased neutral red retention at the 1x10^-4M dosage for 24h. Both methyltestosterone and oxymetholone also showed depleted glutathione at the 1x10^-4M dosage after 2h, 6h and 8h treatments. In other words they increased liver activity. You may also note that the other, non-alkylated steroids showed no significant difference in any levels. All in all this not only shows that 17 alpha-alkylated steroids are directly "hepatotoxic", but also non-alkylated steroids are note hepatotoxic at all. But is this a real measure of hepatotoxicity? There is yet to be any correlation between the increase of the above-mentioned measurement and "hepatotoxicity". Obviously, high dosages of the 17 alpha-alkylated steroids are potentially dangerous, but upon closer inspection, the study reveals more.
Take a look, the researchers took cell cultures from the liversse of 60-day-old Sprague-Dawley rats. Not only are rat livers much smaller than human livers, but these were merely cultures. Furthermore, it was the 1x10^-4M concentrations that caused the most changes, but these are approximately 1 to a 1/3 of a full, daily human dosage -- at least for the 17 alpha-alkylated steroids. Even at the 1x10^-6M concentration, there were no significant changes observed. It's apparent that the levels of 17 alpha-alkylated steroids used were potentially toxic, but for a human to take the same amount would be insane. I'm guessing this could translate to maybe 4 grams every 24 hours or 28 grams a week if not more.
What is common so far is we can only prove that any steroid, that is believed to be hepatotoxic, only increases liver activity. I'll say it again, where is the correlation to hepatotoxicity? We know that if the liver is running at 100% for long periods this may cause complications, but this is akin to any other chemical, which is metabolized by the liver. Ever noticed that liver cancer due to alcoholism takes decades of constant alcohol abuse? It's apparent that the possibility for hepatotoxicity is there, but for the smart steroid user this is nearly an impossible task.
Another study done in 1999, attempted to show the acute and chronic effects of stanozolol on the liver. In acute treatments of stanozolol, dosages not mentioned, both cytochrome P456 and b5 (microsomal enzymes) levels dropped after 48 hours, and then at 72 hours, levels significant increased. On the other hand, with chronic treatments, time or dosage not mentioned, these microsomal enzymes showed a decrease in levels. Researchers showed that both acute and chronic treatments resulted in "slight to moderate inflammatory or degenerative lesions in centrilobular hepatocytes", but the authors did not note true hepatotoxicity.
How about we look at the other side of the story, the good studies. For instance, in a 1999 study, which looked at the effects of an 8-week cycle of 17 alpha-alkylated steroids. The researchers used fluoxymesterone, methylandrostanolone, or stanozolol on rats at 2mg/kg-body weight, five times a week for 8 weeks. That's 182mg per dosage, for a 200lb man, or 910mg per week. Half of the rats were sedentary and the other were trained on a treadmill.
Levels of NADH-cytochrome c reductase, succinate cytochrome c reductase, and cytochrome oxidase (showing liver activity), increased in the steroid-administered rats, while citrate synthase showed no change. Comparatively, in vitro, the "cytochrome oxidase and citrate synthase activities were insensitive to the AAS, whereas NADH-cytochrome c reductase and succinate cytochrome c reductase activities were partly inhibited."
Furthermore, in vivo, each rat had liver enzyme levels that were within normal range. From this, the researchers determined that the steroid-administered rats, trained or sedentary, did not show "...classical serum indicators of hepatic function". Extrapolating this, 910mg a week for 8 weeks could potentially have little to no effect on the liver in humans.
As for human studies, in 1999 researchers tried to prove that the hepatotoxicity of steroids is overstated. In this study, 15 of the participants were bodybuilders using self-administered steroid dosages and 10 were non-steroid bodybuilders. Serum data was compared to 49 patients with viral hepatitis, and 592 exercising and non-exercising medical students.
All of the bodybuilders showed increases in aspartate aminotransferase (AST), alanine aminotransferase (ALT) and creatine kinase (CK) while gamma-glutamyltranspeptidase (GGT) levels were in the normal range. In comparison, hepatitis patients showed increased ALT, AST, and GGT levels while the control exercising medical students showed increased CK levels. From this, the researchers suggested that it is the correlation between AST, ALT and GGT that shows true liver dysfunction. Keep in mind, we can only guess that the 15 steroid users were using 17 alpha-alkylated steroids, and we do not know what the dosages that were used., but common sense tells us the results are likely relevant.
Last but not least, a simple study done in 1996, showed the long term benefits after taking a 3 month break from steroids. 16 bodybuilders using steroids were compared to 12 bodybuilders that were not. After a three-month drug withdrawal, the researchers showed that levels of liver enzymes, types not mentioned, returned to the same as the non users. Again the dosages are left to the reader's imagination and we can only guess that the 16 steroid users were using 17 alpha-alkylated steroids.
So What Can We Conclude From All Of This?
First off, 17 alpha-alkylated steroids are hepatotoxic in high dosages taken for a long time. On the other hand, short cycles and small dosages appear to be perfectly safe. I suggest that maximum dosages should be 500mg to 900mg per day. They should be cycled for perhaps 8 weeks at a time, and if needed a 3-month break from them should be used. Using the above-mentioned techniques, your liver can be healthy for a long time. Simply put, the hysteria surrounding "hepatoxic" steroids, is based mainly on folk lore.
This article appears courtesy of www.mindandmuscle.net
 Lancet 1979 Nov 24;2(8152):1120-3, Hepatic angiosarcoma associated with androgenic-anabolic steroids. Falk H, Thomas LB, Popper H, Ishak KG.
 J Gastroenterol 2000;35(7):557-62, Multiple hepatic adenomas caused by long-term administration of androgenic steroids for aplastic anemia in association with familial adenomatous polyposis. Nakao A, Sakagami K, Nakata Y, Komazawa K, Amimoto T, Nakashima K, Isozaki H, Takakura N, Tanaka N.
 J Pharmacol Toxicol Methods 1995 Aug;33(4):187-95, Toxic effects of anabolic-androgenic steroids in primary rat hepatic cell cultures. Welder AA, Robertson JW, Melchert RB.
 Arch Toxicol 1999 Nov;73(8-9):465-72, Evaluation of acute and chronic hepatotoxic effects exerted by anabolic-androgenic steroid stanozolol in adult male rats. Boada LD, Zumbado M, Torres S, Lopez A, Diaz-Chico BN, Cabrera JJ, Luzardo OP.
 Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1999 Feb;31(2):243-50, Rat liver lysosomal and mitochondrial activities are modified by anabolic-androgenic steroids. Molano F, Saborido A, Delgado J, Moran M, Megias A.
 Clin J Sport Med 1999 Jan;9(1):34-9, Anabolic steroid-induced hepatotoxicity: is it overstated? Dickerman RD, Pertusi RM, Zachariah NY, Dufour DR, McConathy WJ.
 Int J Sports Med 1996 Aug;17(6):429-33, Body composition, cardiovascular risk factors and liver function in long-term androgenic-anabolic steroids using bodybuilders three months after drug withdrawal. Hartgens F, Kuipers H, Wijnen JA, Keizer HA.
03-26-2009, 01:21 AM
"First off, 17 alpha-alkylated steroids are hepatotoxic in high dosages taken for a long time. On the other hand, short cycles and small dosages appear to be perfectly safe"
this part is common sense....
i do agree that ppl greatly overclaim on how toxic steroids are. my friend pollardmania just ran a 10 wk cycle hdrol-125mg/sd30mg/tren120mg and he is fine. no sign of any liver damage. though his liver IS damaged there is no visible signs of severe damage.
probably the main thing to take from this article is that dose smartly and let ur body rest upto 3months. which is common sense cycle+pct=time off
03-26-2009, 01:23 AM
good article though. but still..... any steroid under 90mg is a bad statemnt cuz superdrol at 90mg is pretty bad not for liver only but the backpumps and driness or think this way some1 dosing m1t at 80mg...... u can;t possibly say that not killing ur liver..... but none the less good article
03-28-2009, 01:45 AM
All im saying is hd doesn't need to be run at 100-150mg, esp for 6 weeks. 50mg each day + superdrol @ 20mg e.d would be fine, and all you need for a 4-5 week cycle. not going to see much if anything after that. and mmv2 is crap in my opinion. but thats me. I wouldn't include it in my cycle. waste of money. furazadrol isn't needed, but would be a nice non methyl to add in, and some say is good to stack with hd. but it wouldn't be needed with sd+hd stack.
03-28-2009, 12:06 PM
As for MMV2, sorry it didn't work well for you, but positive feedback far outweighs any of the negative; most reporting great recomp and excellent strength gains. How did you dose it?
03-28-2009, 01:30 PM
03-28-2009, 01:34 PM
id love to do a tren 200mg hdrol 150mg sd 20-30mg cycle 6wks (sd 4 wks) but danger that is pretty harsh!!!
03-28-2009, 04:50 PM
03-28-2009, 06:30 PM
yah but im extremely ocd about dosing my steroids.... id rather dose 10mg ed then 20 eod.... but u know on my nxt cycle if i cant get real gear. ill go with this stack
03-28-2009, 06:34 PM
03-28-2009, 06:49 PM
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