epistane vs. tren extreme question?

[RayLGanske]

Tren extreme: 19-Norandrosta-4, 9-diene-3, 17-dione
Epistane: 2a, 3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

I am wanting to use one of the two P/H but do not want to stack them. I am not looking for and extreme gain, but more of a gradual gain while cutting down on my body fat. Which one would you recomend that also has low side effects such as hair loss and gyno? Thank you for you time and consideration.

 

[Big3upgrade]

Epistane for sure. Run it at 30mg/day for 30 days.

 

[RayLGanske]

What about a pct as well?

 

[Big3upgrade]

It depend what route you want to go, OTC or SERM.

Personally I'd keep it simple and do this for PCT:
Week 1: Reversitol (3)
Week 2: Reversitol (2)
Week 3: Reversitol (2) Activate Xtreme (4)
Week 4: Reversitol (1) Activate Xtreme (4)
Week 5: Activate Xtreme (4)
Week 6: Activate Xtreme (4)

You can add lean extreme staring the 3rd week if you like to control cortisol.

Also you should take Cycle Assist during cycle to control your bp and minmize any liver damage from the methylated PH.

 

[SWOLL]

i think youd put on more weight with tren extreme to be honest, but the side effects would be harsher also.

 

[AFOX]

i think youd put on more weight with tren extreme to be honest, but the side effects would be harsher also.

The tren-extreme would be less toxic, as it is not methylated.

 

[angel77]

Epistane can and has caused hairloss. It is also methylated but is considered a mild Steroid. 19nor Tren is known for strength gains and leaning out a bit and it is NOT methylated. BUT, Tren is a progestin and can cause a serious hit to your libido and progestin gyno but it would depend if your prone. Your choice man!

 

[nickrut]

Epistane can and has caused hairloss. It is also methylated but is considered a mild Steroid. 19nor Tren is known for strength gains and leaning out a bit and it is NOT methylated. BUT, Tren is a progestin and can cause a serious hit to your libido and progestin gyno but it would depend if your prone. Your choice man!

Just nit picking here...I'm fairly confident 19-nor is not a progestin. It is actually a precursor to dienelone, which isn't Tren, and thus isn't a progestin.


To the OP.

For more size, I'd say go with e-stane, for more strength go with tren. For PCT with e-stane, you can go either SERM or OTC, which would be soemthing like 6oxo + test booster (PCS Assist is great here due to I3C and Trans-Resveritol).

 

[jay21]

id go with tren too. didnt like epi too much it was really weak. go with finavol by APS good company at nice 50mg dosages.

 

[jay21]

any OTC u can take while on a gyno prone PH that may hold gyno off? and not weaken the PH

 

[Problem]

Tren for size and strength and lose of libido ! this stuff blows everything out.

Epi sucks!

 

[ibanezman08]

look into kilosports trenadrol
great for cutting.

 

[angel77]

look into kilosports trenadrol
great for cutting.

I have 2 bottles and am gonna start a cut in May. I can't wait. You start at 90mg and move up to 120?

 

[Big3upgrade]

Ahhhh trenadrol. So nice. I am stacking it with 2 bottles of methyl-e in june.

 

[angel77]

Just nit picking here...I'm fairly confident 19-nor is not a progestin. It is actually a precursor to dienelone, which isn't Tren, and thus isn't a progestin.



To the OP.

For more size, I'd say go with e-stane, for more strength go with tren. For PCT with e-stane, you can go either SERM or OTC, which would be soemthing like 6oxo + test booster (PCS Assist is great here due to I3C and Trans-Resveritol).

My bad. I was under the impression it was a progestin. Many that cycle it use p5p and vitex to prevent prolactin. I guess I was misinformed? Cheers, I learn somethin' every day. angel77

 

[Big3upgrade]

It is not a progestine, but it causes progestine sides. My nipps were soft and puffy after the cycle. It was like that for the longest time, until I started to take p5p, vitex, and l-tyrosine. I did take 300mg of b6 e/d while on cycle, but that did not help one bit.

 

[angel77]

It is not a progestine, but it causes progestine sides. My nipps were soft and puffy after the cycle. It was like that for the longest time, until I started to take p5p, vitex, and l-tyrosine. I did take 300mg of b6 e/d while on cycle, but that did not help one bit.

no ****? did you develop gyno?

 

[Big3upgrade]

no ****? did you develop gyno?

Yes I did, on my left nip. A nice little lump right underneath...pain is the ass. But it doest not hurt if I touch it, it got a little itchy during the cycle, but thats it. Cant wait to get surgery when I get some cash save up.

 

[angel77]

Yes I did, on my left nip. A nice little lump right underneath...pain is the ass. But it doest not hurt if I touch it, it got a little itchy during the cycle, but thats it. Cant wait to get surgery when I get some cash save up.

Did you run a small dose of arimadex while on? I certainly will be. .5 eod. while on cycle. What was your PCT like? Nolva or Clomid? I appreciate your input. Cheers, angel77

 

[ibanezman08]

i'm gonna start a run of trenadrol hopefully next week

i'm just going to start at 90mg and ride it out at that dose. it's an effective dose no doubt. we'll see.

 

[searl12]

trenadrol isnt nearly as good as extreme tren in my opinion, and epi doesnt suck, yoou need to give it 3 weeks to really kick in, the tren products kick in real quick, make you real pissy too.

 

[jay21]

epi sux tren rulez end of discussion. epi is for smaller ppl who r like 170-160 if ur like above 200 epi wont do anything.

 

[suncloud]

My bad. I was under the impression it was a progestin. Many that cycle it use p5p and vitex to prevent prolactin. I guess I was misinformed? Cheers, I learn somethin' every day. angel77

its not a progestin like many think it is. it can still cause gyno, just like all steroids can. with tren, if you do get gyno, expect it to be aggressive.

for a more gradual gain, eipstane is a better choice though.

 

[Theipodpeople]

Sorry to resurrect this, but I wanted anyone's input on bridging from tren to epi. Would a normal 4-5 week cycle of xtren with CS and a pct of clomid, formex, lean fx, etc be enough protection against possible sides, or would bridging to epistane for 2 weeks help control estrogen after the xtren?(followed by the clomid, etc)(also would have Nolva, p5p, vitex, and taurine on hand)

I see a lot of people doing a small bridge to epi at the end of tren, and figured maybe it might e beneficial, or maybe it might suppress estrogen too much after tren and make it harder to get back to normal test/est levels?

 

[searl12]

tis a good question

anyone?

 

[searl12]

I would however assume not as the epi will take a little bit to kick in and you will be shut down right away so it might be a rough couple of days until the epi kicks in, even then after it does kick in you will be right about the time where its working best , then abruptly stopping. Just seems risky to me, but I havent done it so i would like to hear others opinions.

 

[Theipodpeople]

I would however assume not as the epi will take a little bit to kick in and you will be shut down right away so it might be a rough couple of days until the epi kicks in, even then after it does kick in you will be right about the time where its working best , then abruptly stopping. Just seems risky to me, but I havent done it so i would like to hear others opinions.

Good point, so maybe last week of tren can also be the first week of epi. Anyone tried something similar?

 

[ato ucf]

bump ... anyone tried this?

 

[fueledpassion]

epi sux tren rulez end of discussion. epi is for smaller ppl who r like 170-160 if ur like above 200 epi wont do anything.

eh, good thing I'm only 145! I'm actually going to bridge Epi and Tren for my next cycle. Hopefully get the best of both worlds w/ very little sides of each!

 

[fueledpassion]

Sorry to resurrect this, but I wanted anyone's input on bridging from tren to epi. Would a normal 4-5 week cycle of xtren with CS and a pct of clomid, formex, lean fx, etc be enough protection against possible sides, or would bridging to epistane for 2 weeks help control estrogen after the xtren?(followed by the clomid, etc)(also would have Nolva, p5p, vitex, and taurine on hand)

I see a lot of people doing a small bridge to epi at the end of tren, and figured maybe it might e beneficial, or maybe it might suppress estrogen too much after tren and make it harder to get back to normal test/est levels?

I'm actually thinking about flipping my next cycle around. Doing Epi for 3 weeks then to Tren for 2 weeks. All the while taking Sustain A during complete cycle. I think this will reduce my chances of harsh shutdown on Tren, which was the only real side I have experienced. You could also take Formex during Tren cycle like I did. Worked out great, just ended up with super-dry joints. I feel great now. No need to get silly with those SERMS if you know how to control your estro on the cycle. Otherwise, you need a good game plan to bring back your test, in which Clomid (although helpful) may not be necessary for this task. That mainly depends on your age, length of cycle, severity of shutdown, etc. I'm opting for TRS and Reversitol to get hormones back into balance. I'm confident that it will be enough, too. (In my application)

 

[Mars1107]

I'm actually thinking about flipping my next cycle around. Doing Epi for 3 weeks then to Tren for 2 weeks. All the while taking Sustain A during complete cycle. I think this will reduce my chances of harsh shutdown on Tren, which was the only real side I have experienced. You could also take Formex during Tren cycle like I did. Worked out great, just ended up with super-dry joints. I feel great now. No need to get silly with those SERMS if you know how to control your estro on the cycle. Otherwise, you need a good game plan to bring back your test, in which Clomid (although helpful) may not be necessary for this task. That mainly depends on your age, length of cycle, severity of shutdown, etc. I'm opting for TRS and Reversitol to get hormones back into balance. I'm confident that it will be enough, too. (In my application)

when you doing this, im also probally doing sustain alpha on cycle.

Let us know how it goes:006:

 

[fueledpassion]

when you doing this, im also probally doing sustain alpha on cycle.

Let us know how it goes:006:

Well, mid-week next week I start my PCT from Tren, which will only be TRS at first. If everything goes right and the TRS does well for me during PCT, then I'll purchase these items for my next cycle, which will be in about 8-10 weeks...

(1) Sustain Alpha (last 3 weeks of cycle)
(1) Epistane (3 weeks on) (Already purchased this)
(1) X-Tren (2 weeks on)
(1) Cycle Support
(1) ACL Joint Repair ( I've heard this is good stuff for joints)

PCT: TRS and Reversitol (If needed) & ZMA & X-Dreams at night.

This is only going to be a (5) week cycle and a (5) week PCT. Total of (10) weeks together. I'm looking to see 15lbs LBM gains and keep at least 75% of those gains in both mass and strength. Let hope the TRS is sufficient enough. The idea is to not be on either PH long enough to experience serious sides & shutdown, but long enough to receive some decent gains. Taking SA alongside will also help w/ shutdown issues while on Tren. I decided to do this when I realized 90% of my gains were found in the first 12-14 days on Tren. So I opted to take Epi for (3) weeks because it isn't as quick at responding to the muscles as Tren is. Theoretically, I feel this is a solid plan. We'll see...

 

[Broodstar]

Tren is really good I have seen a huge increase in size, hardening, rapid strength gains, and its a dry product so you will have a better overall vascularity look. Epi I would say its good too try stacking the two into a spawn like cycle for a better outcome. Hope that helped.

 

[Mars1107]

its not a progestin like many think it is. it can still cause gyno, just like all steroids can. with tren, if you do get gyno, expect it to be aggressive.

for a more gradual gain, eipstane is a better choice though.

wouldnt it be better to run the epi at the begining,since tren takes a while to kick in.

im not going to do a bridge though, just a straight up 4 weeks stack, i was taking a nice look a max lmg, but im not shure about that compound.

 

[searl12]

I'm actually thinking about flipping my next cycle around. Doing Epi for 3 weeks then to Tren for 2 weeks. All the while taking Sustain A during complete cycle. I think this will reduce my chances of harsh shutdown on Tren, which was the only real side I have experienced. You could also take Formex during Tren cycle like I did. Worked out great, just ended up with super-dry joints. I feel great now. No need to get silly with those SERMS if you know how to control your estro on the cycle. Otherwise, you need a good game plan to bring back your test, in which Clomid (although helpful) may not be necessary for this task. That mainly depends on your age, length of cycle, severity of shutdown, etc. I'm opting for TRS and Reversitol to get hormones back into balance. I'm confident that it will be enough, too. (In my application)

it probably should be, I have gotten away with just anabolic extreme s Advanced Pct for tren, the boys were back in 2 days fulll steam, I think thats an overlooked otc pct.

 

[searl12]

wouldnt it be better to run the epi at the begining,since tren takes a while to kick in.

im not going to do a bridge though, just a straight up 4 weeks stack, i was taking a nice look a max lmg, but im not shure about that compound.

In my experience epi takes longer to really kick in , somewhere from day 10-14 and tren is day 3-4 .

 

[sk8board311]

tren is much faster def. 3-4 days, n can havin lasting on cycle effects for a few weeks if u take it long enough

 

[Broodstar]

yeah usually buy the first week and a half its already kicked in real good usually the first week I experience light lethargy but it goes away in week two. I usually had back pumps on it too but supplementing with taurine actually gets rid of it real quick. after 5 days strength gains are so noticiable.

 

[fueledpassion]

In my experience epi takes longer to really kick in , somewhere from day 10-14 and tren is day 3-4 .

Which is what I was thinking about my next cycle a few months down the road.

Epi for 21 days- Long enough to get some gains

Bridge on 3rd week

Tren for 12-14 days - Short enough to avoid harsh sides

Total of 5 weeks.

With SA alongside and lots of Whey Protein, I'm thinking 12-14lbs LBM is obtainable w/ an effortless PCT.

 

[searl12]

Which is what I was thinking about my next cycle a few months down the road.

Epi for 21 days- Long enough to get some gains

Bridge on 3rd week

Tren for 12-14 days - Short enough to avoid harsh sides

Total of 5 weeks.

With SA alongside and lots of Whey Protein, I'm thinking 12-14lbs LBM is obtainable w/ an effortless PCT.

you would honestly get better gains in my opinion by simply running 1 or the other for 4-6 weeks, then run the other one when your ready a few months after. You will then know what does what and how to deal with the sides if you ever stack them.
.02

 

[fueledpassion]

you would honestly get better gains in my opinion by simply running 1 or the other for 4-6 weeks, then run the other one when your ready a few months after. You will then know what does what and how to deal with the sides if you ever stack them.
.02

Good thought. I'll have to consider that. Nothing is set in stone at this point so I really appreciate the ideas/opinions. I should probabaly just hit the Epi on a 4-5 week cycle and see how it goes. I've already done the Tren, but I have yet to experience my complete PCT w/ it. Thanks,

 

[james1]

has anyone tried x-tren by cel yet?

 

[Davidlee]

what do you guys think about epi and havoc stack? heard hype about it but not enough to test it

 

[fueledpassion]

what do you guys think about epi and havoc stack? heard hype about it but not enough to test it

They are the exact same product. You might as well buy two Epi's or two Havoc's and take higher dosages, which I'm not recommending. From what I understand, no one tends to go over 40mg/day on Epi/Havoc cycles.

Something like 20/20/30/30 or 10/20/30/40 or if your a heavy fella you could do 20/30/40/40. You get the point.

 

[fueledpassion]

has anyone tried x-tren by cel yet?

thebigt has logged x-tren already. You can find that log here:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/123522-cels-new-td.html

I also chimed in w/ him since I took the original Tren-Xtreme by ACL just a few weeks before he started his cycle.

(19-Nor) is potent stuff. It works. But it also has very similar sides as the real gear, aside from perhaps "tren cough". I think he put on about 6-7llbs LBM when it was all said and done. I personally put on about 11lbs and still holding it after 2 weeks of PCT. Keep in mind I'm much smaller and took 90mg/day for half my cycle, which is a high dose for someone like myself. It was also my first cycle, too. Thebigt has done many cycles and still had good solid gains from this stuff despite the fact.