20mg havoc for... oh maybe 8 weeks?
02-15-2009 03:30 AM
20mg havoc for... oh maybe 8 weeks?
long story short i'v been running havoc at 20mg for a little over 5 weeks now with some pretty nice results
been using it as more of a repartitioning agent while cutting, and i'v lost roughly 7lbs while strength has increased maybe 20lbs on most compounds. Bodyfat has gone down roughly 4%
Libido was bannana's for the first 3-4 weeks and has leveled off since but is still going good... no blood pressure issues, back pumps, cramps, etc...
pumps are great in the gym and i still have that "on" feeling without increasing the dosages at all
I'm considering picking up another bottle and running this for a total of 8 weeks at the same dosage since it's pretty low to begin with and sides are non-existant
I have significant experience with designers, and have had bloodwork after a 4 week havoc cycle with doses as high as 50mg with all numbers in normal ranges after a 4 week PCT
anybody ran this for that long or have any input?
at the low dose i'm assuming shut down is minimal to moderate at best
02-15-2009 06:37 AM
Ill follow this with interest.Havoc being one of the "gentler" designers -am i right?
02-15-2009 02:07 PM
yeah i'd say its on the gentle side... i haven't used it only well over a year and my body seems to responding to it really well this time around
plus my diet and training have been extremely on point... spring break is in 3 weeks so tryin to look extra deez
and no i'm not pulsing... just getting both doses in by 4-5 oclcock usually, sometimes earlier
the only thing that makes me nervous about the long cycle is my lipids, but i feel like 20mg shouldn't have to profound of an effect on them... maybe i'll get sum bloodwork done
02-15-2009 02:17 PM
Lipids normalize fairly fast, but I'd be careful with running it that long even at 20mg. Havoc/Epi do have some anti-estrogenic properties. If you run it that long and then use a SERM and/or AI for PCT... you are suppressing estrogen in your body for a l-o-n-g time. This could lead to a nasty rebound effect, and you could find yourself experiencing gyno. How do I know this? Well, it happened to me (and a few others on this board) unfortunately.
Basically, I wouldn't recommend it... but not because of lipid issues.
02-15-2009 10:06 PM
yeah i could see that being an issue... thanks for the heads up, i'll be using torem during pct and will plan on running an AI inverse to the serm which has worked in the past for me
joints haven't been to dry so hopefully estrogen hasn't dropped too low but i am looking pretty dry and my chest has def tightened up so i guess we'll see
02-15-2009 10:32 PM
I did for 7.5 weeks and the final 2 weeks were at 50mg.
Didnt really change much (as most said in the forum) from 40-50mg.
Had some nice gains and will post a mini log.
Now on PCT as of 1/31 and no gyno. Lowered my nolva and upped my reversitol.
The real story will be told in the next bloodwork, this week.
Bloodwork a month ago showed lower cholesterol, lower HDL (which goes down as the TC does), elevated BUN (kidney), AST (liver) but not up enough that the doc was worried nor I.
When I go at this all again, it wont be as long, cause I think the results were best at 40mg during the first 3 weeks and it will be stacked with another for sure in June.
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