The ultimate bridge cycle - AnabolicMinds.com

The ultimate bridge cycle

Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  1. Super Lab Rat
    Sldge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,651
    Rep Power
    3773

    Reputation

    The ultimate bridge cycle


    Starting a new thread, with the M4OHT coming out soon there are some real good possibilites of bridging between cycles with anabic compounds that shouldnt shut down the HPTA axis or effect it. GH or IGF1 with insulin and t3 might help it along.
    I suppose you could also use higher amount of ZMA, or tribulus but personally i dont think that they are that effective enough for a bridge.

    The idea being that, you would keep your body from going catabolic inbetween cycles. So there is a great need for a compound that will keep the body anabolic while not hurting the HPTA axis. Any other thoughts?

  2. Advanced Member
    x_muscle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    635
    Rep Power
    64123

    Reputation Reputation

    can u give us an example of such a cycle?

    i dont think your body will be in catabolic state if someone used proper PCT watched his diet and trained right

    another point there are some studies that shows that small amount of androgen can be very suprisive. so how can u bridge between cycle without effects your HPTA. 10 mg of 4-ad can be very suprisive
  3. Senior Member
    MarcusG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    1,223
    Rep Power
    752

    Reputation

    So M-4OHT doesn't affect the HPTA? Or do you mean its so mildly suppressive that a person can still recover normal test levels while on it PCT??
    •   
       

  4. Professional Member
    size's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    4,232
    Rep Power
    2268

    Reputation

    The problem is "shouldnt shut down the HPTA axis or effect it" but that does not mean it will not.

    I have yet to find anything that is an affordable bridge that had no effect on HPTA.


    However, I would be excited if it could be used successfully in this manner.
  5. New Member
    Bryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    226
    Rep Power
    253

    Reputation

    very interesting how what leads you to say M4OHT wont be surpressive to the HPTA? If thats the truth couldn't M4OHT be used for marathon cycles also?
  6. New Member
    SlateDrake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    26
    Rep Power
    155

    Reputation

    Originally posted by size
    I have yet to find anything that is an affordable bridge that had no effect on HPTA.
    size - are you referring to primo or something as far as a expensive, but effective bridge substance that doesn't shut you down?

    I'm curious as I would have thought EVERYTHING shuts you down to some degree or another.

    Basically, whatcha talking about man?
  7. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
    Dwight Schrute's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  221 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    41
    Posts
    12,911
    Rep Power
    7016

    Reputation

    IGF/GH/Slin?
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
  8. Brewing Anabolic Minds
    Chemo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    2,022
    Rep Power
    0

    Reputation

    Gentlemen, this is the holy grail for medicinal application of hormone therapy: to eliminate muscle wasting while not affecting HTPA balance. It obviously has not been done yet to pharmaceutical satisfaction but that does not mean it won't work for our purposes.

    I'm not advocating a bridge, but rather encourage experimentation with using it as a taper for coming off longer cycles. I believe that low dosing, just enough to ward off muscle wasting, will allow for some recovery while maintaining mass. Even if after 4 weeks of dosing recovery is at 50% (chosen at random for discussion) the momentum will have been initiated so the rest of the recovery process will be expedited that much faster. As everyone knows, the critical time for recovery is while exogenous levels are decreasing and natural levels are still suppressed. In a nutshell, the hard part is kickstarting the natural production again. If one could use M-4OHN in the single digit mg range then it should eliminate muscle wasting while allowing for a fair degree of recovery...or so my theory goes

    If someone tries to research the compound in this manner I highly encourage acquisition of some HCG as well as the traditional PCT ancillaries.

    Chemo
  9. Super Lab Rat
    Sldge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,651
    Rep Power
    3773

    Reputation

    4OHT is belived to not suppress natural test, ( i dont know this for sure, as I didnt get blood work done) and it may actually help in recovering from longer cycles.
    PCT does not keep you anabolic, clomid/nolva and hcg are not anabolic. so when you start PCT, you are trying to boost natural test levels and some new studies show it may take 8 weeks (depending on cycle length) to restart. 8 weeks of clomid/nolva/hcg before test levels are up and running again is a long time of doing less during workouts, being very careful with diet, etc.
    if there is a compound that can be used in very small amounts, that wont suppress totaly (just to be safe) we may be able to cut these times in half. M4OHT may work just because it isnt suppossed to supress as much as other compound do, we just havent had a chance to test it out yet.
    Chemo, how well does M4OHT bind to the receptor? I would think in order for a small amount to be used, without effecting HPTA, it would need to bind pretty well.
  10. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
    Dwight Schrute's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  221 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    41
    Posts
    12,911
    Rep Power
    7016

    Reputation

    4OHT will most certainly suppress in the right doses.

    Effects of 4-hydroxyandrost-4-ene-3,17-dione and its metabolites on 5 alpha-reductase activity and the androgen receptor.

    Davies JH, Shearer RJ, Rowlands MG, Poon GK, Houghton J, Jarman M, Dowsett M.

    Department of Urology, St. Georges Hospital, London, England, UK.

    The steroidal aromatase inhibitor, 4-hydroxyandrost-4-ene-3,17-dione (4OHA) and its metabolites, 4-hydroxytestosterone (4OHT), 3 beta,17-dihydroxy-5 alpha-androstan-4-one (metabolite A) and 3 alpha, 17-dihydroxy-5 beta-androstan-4-one (metabolite B) were evaluated as inhibitors of the human prostatic 5 alpha-reductase enzyme and for binding to the rat prostatic androgen receptor. 4OHA and 4OHT were weak inhibitors of 5 alpha-reductase with IC50 values of 15-29 microM. Metabolites A and B had no significant inhibitory activity. 4OHA and metabolites A and B bound weakly to the androgen receptor. The binding affinities (RBA) relative to mibolerone (RBA = 100) were 0.085, 0.485 and 0.016, respectively. However, 4OHT (RBA = 75) was a more potent binder than the endogenous androgen 5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (RBA = 66). The ability of these metabolites, in particular 4OHT, to bind to the androgen receptor may explain the in vivo androgenic activity of 4OHA.

    Now even if you use a low dose and don't have much androgenic activity, which in turn won't cause significant amount of suppression, it also won't be that anabolic/androgenic enough to cause any significany effect on muscle growth/wasting.

    Use IGF-1. It solves all these problems
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
  11. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
    Dwight Schrute's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  221 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    41
    Posts
    12,911
    Rep Power
    7016

    Reputation

    Also remember that when using this, your already suppressed so the amount needed to keepo\ you there will probably be even smaller. Most studies showing mild suppression were on people that had normal test levels, not suppressed ones.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
  12. New Member
    SlateDrake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    26
    Rep Power
    155

    Reputation

    Originally posted by Bobo
    Use IGF-1. It solves all these problems
    Is this what you were referring to in another thread, about taking yourself to the next level with subq injects?
  13. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
    Dwight Schrute's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  221 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    41
    Posts
    12,911
    Rep Power
    7016

    Reputation

    I have no recollection of that.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
  14. Professional Member
    size's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    4,232
    Rep Power
    2268

    Reputation

    Originally posted by Bobo
    Also remember that when using this, your already suppressed so the amount needed to keep you there will probably be even smaller. Most studies showing mild suppression were on people that had normal test levels, not suppressed ones.

    Exactly.
    I think also that this could lead to even longer term HPTA suppression as your body is trying to rebound by following PCT, but you keep adding a substance that holds you back. Ultimately, when you come completely off PCT and 4OHT, it is possbily that you may have only recovered, say 75%, instead of 100%. This reduction may be more of a problem than had you just recovered in the typical manner. However, I guess weekly blood work would be a very interesting event while attempting this.

    I think somebody should be the guinea pig.




    IGF/GH/Slin?-- I choose not to use these .
  15. Banned
    N4cer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Age
    37
    Posts
    691
    Rep Power
    0

    Reputation

    I agree with Bobo on this. Actually, here's a theory for PCT that I REALLY like. And LA is a VERY knowledgable bro when it comes to IGF.

    http://www.beyondmass.com/aboveandbeyond/jmo.html
  16. New Member
    Milo Hobgoblin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Age
    45
    Posts
    81
    Rep Power
    182

    Reputation

    ...


    hmmm comment on "affordable"

    Lets say theroretically I could get my hands on Oxandrolone... would that be a good bridge?
  17. Professional Member
    size's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    4,232
    Rep Power
    2268

    Reputation

    Re: ...


    Originally posted by Milo Hobgoblin
    hmmm comment on "affordable"

    Lets say theroretically I could get my hands on Oxandrolone... would that be a good bridge?

    No. oxandrolone is not a good bridge.
  18. Super Lab Rat
    Sldge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,651
    Rep Power
    3773

    Reputation

    remember also we were leaning more towards M4OHT, which would allow for a smaller dose. the idea being that 2-5mg M4OHT per day along with regular PCT therapy would help restore levels to normal, while not allowing the body to go catabolic through PCT.
  19. Professional Member
    size's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    4,232
    Rep Power
    2268

    Reputation

    Originally posted by Designer Supps
    the idea being that 2-5mg M4OHT per day along with regular PCT therapy would help restore levels to normal, while not allowing the body to go catabolic through PCT.
    I admit I am cynical on the matter, but this sure would be nice.
  20. Super Lab Rat
    Sldge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,651
    Rep Power
    3773

    Reputation

    it sure would, it is definetly worth a test run though.
  21. Advanced Member
    maggmaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    703
    Rep Power
    494

    Reputation

    OOH OOH Ill test Ill test
  22. Ron Paul... phuck yeah!
    riskarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    611
    Rep Power
    438

    Reputation

    Originally posted by Designer Supps
    Starting a new thread, with the M4OHT coming out soon there are some real good possibilites of bridging between cycles with anabic compounds that shouldnt shut down the HPTA axis or effect it. GH or IGF1 with insulin and t3 might help it along.
    I suppose you could also use higher amount of ZMA, or tribulus but personally i dont think that they are that effective enough for a bridge.

    The idea being that, you would keep your body from going catabolic inbetween cycles. So there is a great need for a compound that will keep the body anabolic while not hurting the HPTA axis. Any other thoughts?
    I like the idea of upping ZMA... best bet would be 4IUs daily of rhGH, the sh*t is amazing when stacked with M1T, amazing results.

    arb.
  23. She thinks my traps'rrrr sexy!
    supersoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,204
    Rep Power
    1774

    Reputation

    I'm your huckleberry How about I kill two birds with one stone. Run transdermal 4AD for 14 weeks, weeks 1-2 with 10mg M1t, weeks 5-6 with 10mg M1t and NAC and Milk Thistle, weeks 9-10 20mg M1t, weeks 13-14 20mg M1t with NAC and Milk Thistle. That should be incredibly suppressive for a long time. Then for PCT Nolva at 60mg until LH is above 0.00 (check out my other thread), then the standard 40,30,20,10 mg nolva protocol, and however many mgs decided by the higher powers (Chemo and Designer) of M4OHT the whole time until (hopefully) LH is fully recovered. I should have a baseline number in about a week or a week and a half (I'll be off nolva in 4 days, and I want to give it about a week after that). I will do lab testing on Fridays and Mondays throughout the cycle for liver enzymes, Testosterone, Estradiol, LH, FSH, PSA, Prolactin, Progesterone, Cholesterol, Triglycerides, CBC, and whatever else you guys can think of. This way I can find out how bad the M1t is for your liver at two different doses, find out if Milk Thistle and NAC really work for protection, and give the whole Bridge theory a try. Oops, that's three birds with one stone. I'll be ****ing HUGE too
  24. Elite Member
    bioman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    7,697
    Rep Power
    513131

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    I doubt the validity of the liver portion of your study as you wouldn't be able to discern whether elevated liver values were the result of differing doses or simply longer duration of consumption. In other words, too many variables.

    It would be interesting to test the bridge hypothesis although my money is on poor recovery and no significant increase in anabolism during PCT. I think dosing with any androgen, even at very low doses, will further desensitize the HPTA to LH. As the recently posted article on Nolva pointed out, Nolva is one of the few known substances that re-sensitize the HPTA to FSH and LH.

    I think this points out the obvious that continued, unabated androgen use leads to lowering the efficacy of these compounds in the body. I think that's the real glory of M1T...since the gains come so fast one can get off cycle faster and have a much easier recovery. But thats just my humble opinion.
  25. Professional Member
    size's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    4,232
    Rep Power
    2268

    Reputation

    Go for it supersoldier.
  26. Super Lab Rat
    Sldge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,651
    Rep Power
    3773

    Reputation

    sounds good to me, as soon as i get the M4OHT i will get you a sample to try it out.
  27. Professional Member
    size's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    4,232
    Rep Power
    2268

    Reputation

    Originally posted by Designer Supps
    sounds good to me, as soon as i get the M4OHT i will get you a sample to try it out.
    Now supersoldier has no choice.
  28. She thinks my traps'rrrr sexy!
    supersoldier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,204
    Rep Power
    1774

    Reputation

    If the bridge theory doesn't work, the worst case scenario is that you end up with a longer cycle, or a longer time with HPTA shutdown (in my case 20 weeks total if I add 6 weeks M4OHT use to my 14 week cycle). I think it has a valid theory and very well might work, and if it doesn't I don't think I'll have too much trouble recovering from 20 weeks of androgen use. If it does work then it could totally change the whole process of post cycle recovery and allow a lot of people to keep a lot more muscle. BTW, scratch the transdermal 4AD, I'm gonna pop my pinning cherry and run test prop.
  29. Super Lab Rat
    Sldge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,651
    Rep Power
    3773

    Reputation

    i am going to try it out as well, i have to test out a few different orals anyway, so i would do probably 3-4, 4 mini cycles. ill start m4oht with pct in between the 3 and 4 mini. this way we can have more then one tester.
  30. Elite Member
    bioman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Age
    42
    Posts
    7,697
    Rep Power
    513131

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Sounds cool!

    If you're right you'll lead PH usage down a completely different road. If you're wrong..well you'll have small nuts for awhile. Either way it will help to test a new hypothesis.
  31. Advanced Member
    candle25's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  182 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Age
    38
    Posts
    626
    Rep Power
    446

    Reputation

    Very interesting. I can't wait to hear the outcome. Good luck bro's!
  32. New Member
    Flash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    25
    Rep Power
    154

    Reputation

    IMO, the hydroxy's (4OHT/4OHN) will be similair in effect to ox or winny because of the concetrated electron density and the 5 membered ring formed from H-bonding betweeen the enol and the ketone.

    Dont get me wrong, Im looking forward to 4OHT. I LOVE winny, and Im leaning toward thinking its effects are going to be similair. When will this stuf be available?
  33. New Member
    mr.zone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    2
    Rep Power
    133

    Reputation

    Originally posted by Bobo
    IGF/GH/Slin?
    I don't think its a good idea to use IGF1 and GH in the same cycle. gh increases igf as it is . If you take both at the same time you might run into more sides then expected. one or the other with slin is the way to go
  34. New Member
    Puerto Rico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    18
    Rep Power
    140

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Designer Supps
    i am going to try it out as well, i have to test out a few different orals anyway, so i would do probably 3-4, 4 mini cycles. ill start m4oht with pct in between the 3 and 4 mini. this way we can have more then one tester.
    hey gracias a got my order today ...by the way keep informed about this brige an also about M4OHN & M14ADD....and i dont see any ANTI -E on ur site it would be good to get everything at one site insted of ordering from site to site it gets to expensive ......
  35. I am faster than 80% of all snakes
    Dwight Schrute's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"  221 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    41
    Posts
    12,911
    Rep Power
    7016

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.zone
    I don't think its a good idea to use IGF1 and GH in the same cycle. gh increases igf as it is . If you take both at the same time you might run into more sides then expected. one or the other with slin is the way to go

    Its not even in the same ballpark as exogenous IGF-1.
    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.
  36. Super Lab Rat
    Sldge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    3,651
    Rep Power
    3773

    Reputation

    I have thought about adding some anti es but at the moment I just have to many things going on right now.
  37. Senior Member
    Lean One's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Age
    41
    Posts
    2,673
    Rep Power
    1469

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Designer Supps
    I have thought about adding some anti es but at the moment I just have to many things going on right now.
    I was meaning to ask you about that. It would kick ass if you could offer ante-e's in powder form. It would be prudent to stock up on those too.
  38. Banned
    chemikill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Age
    35
    Posts
    68
    Rep Power
    0

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Lean One
    I was meaning to ask you about that. It would kick ass if you could offer ante-e's in powder form. It would be prudent to stock up on those too.
    I second that!!
    -chem.
  39. New Member
    Cosmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    215
    Rep Power
    249

    Reputation

    bump
  40. Senior Member
    Lean One's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Age
    41
    Posts
    2,673
    Rep Power
    1469

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmo
    bump
    Check out Customs' site.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. AH/AE/AM/AB, the ultimate recomp cycle
    By Austinmck17 in forum Cycle Info
    Replies: 102
    Last Post: 11-22-2012, 04:29 PM
  2. The Ultimate Post Cycle Therapy Stack
    By The G Train in forum Post Cycle Therapy
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-01-2008, 01:30 AM
  3. The ultimate rehab cycle?!?!
    By Rumpnuts in forum Cycle Info
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-25-2008, 04:33 PM
  4. THE ULTIMATE CYCLE
    By yanke10 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-05-2005, 09:20 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in