Pick it apart, please :)

ozarkaBRAND

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Alright, so it's attached, pdf style.

Now, I got my ideas for PCT from Anabolics 2006.

So, go ahead, lets do this.

PS. This is some way-ahead planning.
 
ibanezman08

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get some dostinex
you'll need it.

run nolva 40/40/40/20/20/20

in other words, extend PCT to 6 weeks.
i'd run clomid
50/50/50/50/50/50

tren and deca = tough recovery. pct must be very good.

also, why not 500mg on the test?
 
ozarkaBRAND

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get some dostinex
you'll need it.

run nolva 40/40/40/20/20/20

in other words, extend PCT to 6 weeks.
i'd run clomid
50/50/50/50/50/50

tren and deca = tough recovery. pct must be very good.
If anything, I'll just use P5P for prolactin issues.

Thanks for the input.
 
ozarkaBRAND

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Oh, about the test, I just don't feel 500mg will be necessary, especially with the other compounds. I'm thinking about going even lower with the test, minimize bloat, save $$$, etc...
 
ibanezman08

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what's p5p?
is it an over the counter product?
if so, not a good idea.
 
ibanezman08

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Oh, about the test, I just don't feel 500mg will be necessary, especially with the other compounds. I'm thinking about going even lower with the test, minimize bloat, save $$$, etc...
IMO, if you go lower, it'll be a waist of money.

just run adex for the bloat.
 
ibanezman08

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bro, caber/dostinex is a MUST for any 19-nor steroid.

you can also use bromo
 
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People often have good results with P5P for prolactin. I think it would be wise to have something stronger for a "just in case" situation though.



About the actual cycle.... seems like it will work well. I like the idea of lower test. If you don't need more, don't use more. However, I'm not experienced with all of these compounds so I will defer to those with more expertise on this one.
 
cjszip

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P5P is good. There are also a few other compounds that you can add, to further reduce prolactin. I'd be prepared, though.

Better to have and not need, than to need and not have.
 
mixedup

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bro, caber/dostinex is a MUST for any 19-nor steroid.

you can also use bromo

I've run 19-nor several times and Fina many many times way before there were "research chemicals" and never ran caber. i've hit fina at over 100mgs ed in the past.

CABER has bad sides and most peopel would use as a LAST resort
 
crazyfool405

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here's that attachment
View attachment 25467
awesome dude!!!!

you took the exact cycle i want to do next time, but without the EQ lol

i would do....

Test E 500-600mg per week 1-12
Duraboline (NPP i think thats what you got) 300mg (100mg 3x per week) week 1-7
Tren Ace 225mg (75mg 3x per week you can bump it to 100 if you want) week 8-14

hCG during week 13 and 14 at 500iu, 3X a week then Clomid 100/100/50/50 and Aromasin 10/10/10/10
 

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If this is your first cycle other than otc ph's, I would drop the deca altogether. It is a myth that you need to stack compounds constantly, in fact, you would be surprised what just the 400 mgs of test would do. I recently saw a post by Dat on another board where a study was done (dont remember details, just results) and 300 mgs of test per week were enough to illicit a measurable performance increase and size increase in a 200 lb person. Again, dont know other specifics, but also based on own history, I would agree with the results. I would do wks 1-10 or 12 300-400 mgs of test e, will take a couple weeks to kick in, probably about wk 3 or so, and wks 1-5 or 6 Mon, Wed, Fri 50 mgs of Tren Acetate (so 150 ms weekly), if it is real, you wont need anymore. The tren will kickstart the cycle, and then dropping it for just the test will taper off near the end, should make for easier recovery. Also, start the hcg a week or two before last shot, you do want to start on cycle. In fact, search on hcg, there have been a number of recent protocals which run it during the cycle in order to ease recovery. Also, remember, enanthate is long ester, which means, that test will still be in your system for a week or so, after your last shot, so you may want to adjust your Nolva and Clomid accrodingly. Search on that as well, as I cannot remember, when to start taking these. It is different than otc ph/designers where they are in and out quickly and pct begins day after taking last dose. Sorry I cannot be more specific, but have not been to darkside myself for many years, but spent quite a bit of time there when younger. It is tempting to run a bunch of different compounds at high dosages, but trust me, less is better, both for health and long term, and even gains. There is a point of diminishing returns on dosage, also have read on a number of boards were very experienced users are advocating less extreme dosage after their sometimes decades of experience. I am sure this will not be your only cycle, have patience. Trust me 10-12 weeks of test e at 300-400 mgs stacked with tren at 150 mgs for the first 5 or 6 weeks will cause a lot of changes. Just want to put my .02 in so that you will have a safe and effective cycle and as smoothe a recovery as possible. Good luck!
 
UnrealMachine

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it's a fine cycle, lot of compounds if it's a first cycle, i kind of like to figure them out 1 at a time but whatever.

Really the only thing i have to say is that if that's Deca there's no reason to shoot it eod you can pin deca 1x a week, just shoot 350mg, save yourself some stabbing.

Now if it's Nandrolone phenyl propionate then u'd have to pin eod.

Bulk up good on this one man.
 
crazyfool405

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it's a fine cycle, lot of compounds if it's a first cycle, i kind of like to figure them out 1 at a time but whatever.

Really the only thing i have to say is that if that's Deca there's no reason to shoot it eod you can pin deca 1x a week, just shoot 350mg, save yourself some stabbing.

Now if it's Nandrolone phenyl propionate then u'd have to pin eod.

Bulk up good on this one man.
durabolin and deca durabolin are different, the main difference is the ester

i believe durabolin is phenylproprionate (3 carbon ester with a phenyl group)
and deca durabolin is a decanoate (10 carbon ester)

this is the reason for pinning EOD
 
UnrealMachine

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Yes i clearly mentioned that NPP has to be pinned eod, the thing is NPP is nandrolone phenyl propionate, haven't heard anyone ever call it "durabolin."
 
crazyfool405

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Yes i clearly mentioned that NPP has to be pinned eod, the thing is NPP is nandrolone phenyl propionate, haven't heard anyone ever call it "durabolin."

yea me either until the anabolics 2009 book that i got,

i didnt realize you stated that on ur post i have a bad habit of seeing one thing and answering it and not going back to see if theres anything else to address
 
jjohn

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Tren AND deca!! Darn... This will be something!
 
UnrealMachine

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haha, it's ok crazy. I know that you know your **** too.


NPP-> Tren ace is heavy on progestins for a first cycle but i prolly wouldn't worry about caber because the doses aren't too high. But it does mean the suppression will be a bit harder.
 
papapumpsd

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1st inject. cycle, as I've READ dozens of times before, should be test only OZ. If the posted cycle is for a post-1st cycle, then my statement is null and void.

-Papa!-
 

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agreed Papa, as I stated earlier, for 1st inj, 300-400 mgs of test/wk for 10-12 weeks would do quite a bit, and that is why at most add 150 mgs of tren for 5-6 wks. Drop the deca altogether, whether npp, or durabolin, doesnt matter, not needed. Tren is better, and sides still low at only 150mgs per week, but better advice is to drop both and do test only and have some patience. Also, if worried about bloat, watch diet, some people run test, and not just prop, during cut cycle
 
jjohn

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1st inject. cycle, as I've READ dozens of times before, should be test only OZ. If the posted cycle is for a post-1st cycle, then my statement is null and void.

-Papa!-
I like the recommendation of test to a cycle mostly for mood. Okay, lipid values, libido as well. But as long as you run test with them libido "should" still be there.. But I don't know, never heard anyone run something similar..

If I ever do deca, dostinex will be around for me for sure...
 
ozarkaBRAND

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It's not my first inject cycle.. Thanks for looking out for me dudes!

Now, lets see if I can address some of the concerns and suggestions with some words of my own, oh, and some questions of my own as well!

Crazy, when you say pin 3x weekly, do you mean EOD, or literally, 3x weekly (M,W,F for example)?

UnrealMachine, I figured using multiple compounds would be an "ok" deal since I've run test before, and the other 2 compounds will be run at separate times, not overlapping.

Also guys, the doses I'm considering are more toward the "low" side don't you think? I did, but maybe I was horribly mistaken.
 
Frank Reynolds

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How long have you been training? How many total cycles have you run?

Just curious.
 
ozarkaBRAND

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How long have you been training? How many total cycles have you run?

Just curious.
Training 5 or 6 years, 2 of them extremely dedicated.

Cycles.. we'll, lets see..

4 I believe.
 
papapumpsd

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Nos, where the eff are you? I thought you'd have chimed in by now :) I like your recommendations.....you have quality feedback.

Oz, sorry, thought it was your 1st inj! I'd be interested to hear what you've ran before and how it went (results & sides). Thanks bud!
 
ozarkaBRAND

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Nos, where the eff are you? I thought you'd have chimed in by now :) I like your recommendations.....you have quality feedback.

Oz, sorry, thought it was your 1st inj! I'd be interested to hear what you've ran before and how it went (results & sides). Thanks bud!
Test prop and Epidrol. 6 weeks. 150mg test EOD. Epidrol 60mg ED.

It was a very decent cycle. Lots of size and strength. I thoroughly enjoyed the test as well. Oh me oh my did I enjoin the test :D
 
mixedup

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1st inject. cycle, as I've READ dozens of times before, should be test only OZ. If the posted cycle is for a post-1st cycle, then my statement is null and void.

-Papa!-

You know I think this is sort of an old school train of thought for the mere fact that back when alot of us first timers started there were no designers ph's etc or anything that could actually raise test otc. Now with the designers and PH's an ai's etc that actually work i think it's a different story.

To me a 1st injectable cycle after 3-4 designers cycles is not really a 1st cycle sure it's your first time pinning but you've already gone through your natural test being shut off, test being raised by outside sources and hopefully a good PCT
 
crazyfool405

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It's not my first inject cycle.. Thanks for looking out for me dudes!

Now, lets see if I can address some of the concerns and suggestions with some words of my own, oh, and some questions of my own as well!

Crazy, when you say pin 3x weekly, do you mean EOD, or literally, 3x weekly (M,W,F for example)?

UnrealMachine, I figured using multiple compounds would be an "ok" deal since I've run test before, and the other 2 compounds will be run at separate times, not overlapping.

Also guys, the doses I'm considering are more toward the "low" side don't you think? I did, but maybe I was horribly mistaken.

3times weekly soo MWF.

and Tues thurs sat when you do hCG.
 
papapumpsd

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You know I think this is sort of an old school train of thought for the mere fact that back when alot of us first timers started there were no designers ph's etc or anything that could actually raise test otc. Now with the designers and PH's an ai's etc that actually work i think it's a different story.

To me a 1st injectable cycle after 3-4 designers cycles is not really a 1st cycle sure it's your first time pinning but you've already gone through your natural test being shut off, test being raised by outside sources and hopefully a good PCT
mixed, the reason this logic exists (if 1st inj. run test only) is so that if you experience a nasty side or two you'll be able to say it's test vs. if you ran test + EQ for a 1st cycle and got sides, well you really wouldn't know which steroid was the culprit.

This same logic applies to orals. I would not personally recommend a 1st timer to run m-drol + epi. Pick one and try it out.
 
ozarkaBRAND

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3times weekly soo MWF.

and Tues thurs sat when you do hCG.
Cool. Thanks man.

I'm not sure about the HCG though. From what I've been reading in Anabolics '06 it's best utilized during the first couple weeks of pct.
 
crazyfool405

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1500 iu e3d for total of 5 shots then clomid for 4 weeks, run 1mg adex ed during hcg and .5 mg adex eod or 10mg aromasin ed
 
crazyfool405

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for some reason i thought u were using it on cycle..... which is why i had it that way some people (well most) use it on cycle

im one for after cycle during pct
 
mixedup

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mixed, the reason this logic exists (if 1st inj. run test only) is so that if you experience a nasty side or two you'll be able to say it's test vs. if you ran test + EQ for a 1st cycle and got sides, well you really wouldn't know which steroid was the culprit.

This same logic applies to orals. I would not personally recommend a 1st timer to run m-drol + epi. Pick one and try it out.

i understand what you are saying and agree with it to a point especially on orals however knowing half lives of esthers can be radically different and seeing how there are common sides to most known A.A.S since they have usually been extensively study and produced by real pharmas as opposed to designers. I wouldn't worry as much. if im running a prop ether and eth esther for instance and I get bad sides in day 6 i'm gonna attribute it to the prop if i am going good then in week 3 get sides it's probablly gonna be the eth.
 
smshannon001

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what would you dose the p-5-p at for prolactin sides
 
ozarkaBRAND

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for some reason i thought u were using it on cycle..... which is why i had it that way some people (well most) use it on cycle

im one for after cycle during pct
So what do you think then about what I have set up using it post cycle?
 
crazyfool405

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So what do you think then about what I have set up using it post cycle?

what doses are you using?

this is what i would do...

day after last shot
1500iu hCG e3d for a total of 5 shots then clomid 100/100/50/50

Adex 1mg ED while on hCG then when you start the clomid adex .5mg EOD OR 10mg AROMASIN ED
 
papapumpsd

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i understand what you are saying and agree with it to a point especially on orals however knowing half lives of esthers can be radically different and seeing how there are common sides to most known A.A.S since they have usually been extensively study and produced by real pharmas as opposed to designers. I wouldn't worry as much. if im running a prop ether and eth esther for instance and I get bad sides in day 6 i'm gonna attribute it to the prop if i am going good then in week 3 get sides it's probablly gonna be the eth.
I hear you boss! Thanks for the convo :)
 
mixedup

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glad to offer something. great when two people can debate without hissy fits you know
 
mixedup

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ozark besided p5p have you thought about vitex or chasteberry also otc and heard can help
 
ibanezman08

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I've run 19-nor several times and Fina many many times way before there were "research chemicals" and never ran caber. i've hit fina at over 100mgs ed in the past.

CABER has bad sides and most peopel would use as a LAST resort
fina? isn't that a pro-hormone? bro, deca and tren cannot be compared to that.

We'll see man! Hope you don't have to give me an "I told ya so!"
fine then. suit yourself.
 
mixedup

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fina? isn't that a pro-hormone? bro, deca and tren cannot be compared to that.



fine then. suit yourself.

No Real Fina is Trenbolone Acetate. Alot of PH and designers may have put the name Fina in to try and make it sound more like the real deal. it's like halodrol they used halo and packaged it in the same type of package as real Halotestin it's marketing. Back when i started we didn't have any designers or ph's etc so sometimes i may use terms like fina, halo, drol and forget there a designers using the same type of name sorry to confuse you.

oh and deca i've used many times over the last 15 years also
 
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I have not read Anabolics '09, what is BW's reasoning for 10MG of Tamox? Ocular impingements, general toxicity, or he feels that 10MG is adequate to elicit a decent peak in AUC? Regarding the hCG: in my humble and personal opinion, and if supplies allow, I would use it as an on cycle treatment beginning in the fourth week. I have never particularly agreed with the physiology of using it in a 'blitzkrieg' fashion for immediate stimulation - I think it is best used preventively and in a precautionary fashion, rather than in a reactionary sense! Again, assuming you are using NPP, I would choose either/or 19-Nor based compound unless you have used both on an individual basis; that bit of convolution may produce some unnecessary and unseen side-effects.

I am also somewhat surprised at the amount of individuals recently expressing a desire to utilize Trenbolone Esters at or near the end of their respective cycles. Trenbolone itself has a powerfull binding affinity to the PgR [60% binding strength as compared to Pg], and its active metabolite is even more powerfull. The effects this has on SHBG, and its respective impeding of recovery, cannot be stressed enough.
 
Mulletsoldier

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Just to add to the above. A general caveat is always put forward regarding long-esters, that they must be ceased in a timely fashion due to ester cleaving. However, many of the compounds we utilize enact metabolic processes which carry out long after the compound itself has been excreted from the body. This is particularly important when considering one's plan of action of P.C.T., If, say, one's SHBG is rocketed past normal physiological ranges due to PgR stimulation, no amount of Tamox and/or Clomid and/or natural test booster is going to significantly expedite your recovery. The lasting physiological effects of each compound must be considered with just as much, and if not more, specificity as its respective clearance time.
 
mixedup

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Mullet your two advanced for me lol i learn more confusing stuff everyday i long for the old days where we only had chlomid and tamox and almost everybody followed one pct protocol we didn't have test booster torm hell we didn't even have l-dex. So much less confusing
 
Mulletsoldier

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Sorry MU! Essentially, I was simply saying that the reason Trenbolone is popularly not used close to P.C.T., is validated by its metabolism. Particularly its [likely] upregulation of SHBG due to its powerfull interaction with the PgR [progesterone receptor].
 
ibanezman08

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No Real Fina is Trenbolone Acetate. Alot of PH and designers may have put the name Fina in to try and make it sound more like the real deal. it's like halodrol they used halo and packaged it in the same type of package as real Halotestin it's marketing. Back when i started we didn't have any designers or ph's etc so sometimes i may use terms like fina, halo, drol and forget there a designers using the same type of name sorry to confuse you.

oh and deca i've used many times over the last 15 years also
oh, well i'm just sayin' not everybody is as lucky as you are.

my friend who is a mod on another steroid forum got gyno from deca and he's considered a gear guru. he wasn't using dostinex.
so now he thinks you should run that when using 19nors.

also, what bad side effects are you guys talking about with dostinex?
 
mixedup

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you are right everybody is different. But availabilty of Dostinex if fairly new and dbol and deca was a very very common cycle in the old days and gyno was not to common i think it has alot to do with dosages also
 

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