a few quick cycle questions
- 12-16-2008, 01:32 AM
a few quick cycle questions
okay so I am planning a cycle, been searching around for good stuff and i think I might get some organon test sustanon 250 the break down is:
Testosterone Blend 250mg/ml: Testosterone Propionate 30mg Testosterone Phenylpropionate 60mg Testosterone Isocaproate 60mg Testosterone Decanoate 100mg
I've never used sustanon before, I've only used test e and prop.
I don't want to do a cycle over 8 weeks, I'd preferably do one 6, but I don't know if I can get prop so if I get sustanon I think 8 is recommended, pinning every 3rd day? could u get away with m/th injections or is that too far apart?
also, would I need HCG, I'm assuming yes but just want some second opinions (will discuss that in detail later, such as protocol)
also...I'm either going to kick start with some H-Drol or some SSL Trem Xtreme II for the first 4 weeks...I understand Tren Xtreme aromatises and is a nandralone will I need to use some Letro, considering gyno will most likely be a concern
I will have clomid/torm on hand for gyno issues and PCT as well as other PCT products (lean xtreme 2, milk thistle, etc...)
Thanks for any help guy
- 12-16-2008, 11:58 AM
10 weeks is recommended, but 8 could work. pinning sust mon/thur is fine. no need for HCG
- 12-16-2008, 12:12 PM
I ran sust cycles for about 3 years on and off when I was in my late 20's. I would run 8 weeks on and 8 weeks off and then 8 weeks back on again. I never did PCT and kept most of my gains. Now in my forties I must do PCT as my natural test levels have declined.
I think 8 weeks is a good minimum for heavy estered testosterones and if your nutrition, training and recovery are dialed in, you will gain lbm that entire 8 weeks.
For PCT, HCG is very effective. 300iu eod for 3 weeks will restore function. I would take a SERM like Nolvadex during this HCG treatment AND 1 week afterward.
Keeping a diet higher in fats post cycle will also aid recovery as cholesterol converts to testosterone.
12-16-2008, 12:14 PM
i disagree with running HCG in PCT but im not going to argue standpoints because ive done it once already.
12-16-2008, 12:18 PM
12-16-2008, 12:30 PM
dose dependent, but HCG can be suppressive. so why suppress ur natural test during the time ur trying to have it recover.
once again its dose dependent, but 2 ways to effectively run HCG are through ur cycle leading right up until PCT. or in the case of long esters where the HCG is only used for the 2 weeks that the ester is clearing right before PCT.
12-16-2008, 12:33 PM
the following was taken from another board, but is basically saying what i just did.
"Simply put, we go on post-cycle therapy to recover from a steroid cycle. We help the PCT to do its thing by using SERMs to kick-start our pituitary gland and the whole HPTA back into gear. Use of HCG stimulates only the testes but continues to shut-down the "H" (hypothalamus) & "P" (pituitary) part of the endocrine axis. Thus using HCG during PCT is self-defeating.
And you can use high doses of HCG at the end of a cycle, after your last inject, to kick the boys back into gear before you begin your actual PCT with SERMs. It works, but then you have to put up with raisins in your scrotum for most of your cycle. Using small doses during cycle on a regular basis keeps the boys from turning into raisins and makes it easier for them to begin working again naturally during PCT & afterwards. (However, even using small doses during cycle, I still like a little kick – say 500 iu/ED for 10 days – before I begin my SERMs & PCT. Love the extra libido.)"
12-16-2008, 12:58 PM
okay enough on HCG, thanks for the input...
what about kick starting with Tren or H-Drol, and proper gyno protection?
12-16-2008, 01:04 PM
12-16-2008, 01:11 PM
12-16-2008, 01:21 PM
it sucks to say i have no personal experience with HCG yet. but come Jan i will. from all the info ive gathered and vets from numerous boards....there are 2 ways.
1) 500iu every 5 days
2) 250iu 2x a week
either way, the LAST HCG shot should be administered on the day the test ester clears (test-e on day 14, test-c on day 18, test prop on day 3) then wait 4 days from last HCG shot to begin PCT.
with short esters like prop and ace, HCG should be started from the get-go. with long esters u can start a couple weeks into the cycle.
12-16-2008, 01:52 PM
I have run it many ways and I first based my cycles off Dr. Crisler's protocols but since he does TRT the amount he suggested and timing was not ideal for cycle doses of T. He recommends between 250iu-500iu 1 and 2 days before your ONCE weekly TC injection.
I modified his protocol for twice weekly injections of T and found this worked quite well;
Sun 400iu HCG
Mon 400iu HCG
Tue 300mg TC
Thur 400iu HCG
Fri 400iu HCG
Sat 300mg T
0.5mg Adex 3 times per week
My libido was through the roof on this cycle and I immediately fell in love with HCG. This was about 2 years ago. I have cycled on and off for 21 years.
The more I read about HCG the more I was concerned with desensitizing leydig cells so I started using lower doses. I have found 300iu eod works great for me and there is good science to back up the experience.
I will try using it before baseline only and see how it goes.
12-16-2008, 04:24 PM
shouldn't I use Letro over Adex if i'm going to use a product like Tren which can cause progesterone gyno
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