This is the kind of respones i was hoping for!!! heavy iron you are golden! :thumbsup: What i like most about your response is that you didnt feel good on anadrol. i have done my resarch i am just looking for reccomendation based on experience. That is a good enough rason for me to stay away from it for this cycle. i want it to be enjoyable not painful. I think i will stick with dbols administered as you say.
I am not positive exactly how i will be administering the HCG which is why i didn't say. I was thinking 2500IU once a week for the first 4 weeks and last 4 weeks of being on. what would you say is the best way to run it? does that sound ok?
HCG can be run many ways and I have been experimenting with it for a little over 2 years now. I have run it throughout my cycles for months. I have pulsed it for a few weeks at a time on cycle and obviously used it as part of my PCT.
The more data that is collected about HCG the more we are learning that low dose and frequent administration is the preferred method of treatment.
Dr Crisler has done extensive research on HCG and its uses with Testosterone and he recommends 250iu-500iu subq 2 days AND 1 day before a long estered testosterone injection like Enanthate. Larger doses tend to raise estradiol and are not needed to restore testicular function.
Recently I ran accross a clinical human trial that measured the effects of different doses of HCG while administering Testosterone. The findings support using low doses for 3 weeks to restore ITT. Here is the trial;
Low-Dose Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Maintains Intratesticular Testosterone in Normal Men with Testosterone-Induced Gonadotropin Suppression
Andrea D. Coviello, Alvin M. Matsumoto, William J. Bremner, Karen L. Herbst, John K. Amory, Bradley D. Anawalt, Paul R. Sutton, William W. Wright, Terry R. Brown, Xiaohua Yan, Barry R. Zirkin and Jonathan P. Jarow
Center for Research in Reproduction and Contraception, Geriatric Research Education and Clinical Center, Veteran Affairs Puget Sound Health Care System (A.M.M.), and Department of Medicine, University of Washington School of Medicine (A.D.C., W.J.B., J.K.A., B.D.A., P.R.S.), Seattle, Washington 98195; Department of Medicine, Charles R. Drew University (K.L.H.), Los Angeles, California 90059; Department of Urology, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine (X.Y., J.P.J.), Baltimore, Maryland 21287; and Division of Reproductive Biology, Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology Johns Hopkins University School of Public Health (W.W.W., T.R.B., X.Y., B.R.Z., J.P.J.), Baltimore, Maryland 21205
Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Dr. Andrea D. Coviello, Feinberg School of Medicine, Northwestern University, Tarry 15-751, 303 East Chicago Avenue, Chicago,
In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testosterone (T), suggesting that high ITT is needed relative to serum T for normal spermatogenesis in men. However, the quantitative relationship between ITT and spermatogenesis is not known. To begin to address this issue experimentally, we determined the dose-response relationship between human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and ITT to ascertain the minimum dose needed to maintain ITT in the normal range. Twenty-nine men with normal reproductive physiology were randomized to receive 200 mg T enanthate weekly in combination with either saline placebo or 125, 250, or 500 IU hCG every other day for 3 wk. ITT was assessed in testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration at baseline and at the end of treatment. Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/liter) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/liter). LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline, respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 to 72 nmol/liter) in the T enanthate/placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001). Posttreatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group. These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression. Extensions of this study will allow determination of the ITT concentration threshold required to maintain spermatogenesis in man.
This trial suggests that about 300iu HCG subq every other day for 3weeks will restore ITT levels to baseline in men using Testosterone.
I am currently employing this very protocol and my Testosterone dose is 500mg per week. I will run the HCG for the entire course but pulsing HCG will work as well.
