Putting Things In Perspective
- 12-03-2008, 08:06 AM
Putting Things In Perspective
I am often reminded on here and other web sites that taking a steroid or OTC prohormone/designer that is 17 a methylated can put stress on the liver .The warning is often followed with recommendations of what to take to minimise the stress.
My point is this -is it all necessary?
Its not uncommon for people to go into hospital with a particular illness and leave having to take a cocktail of drugs for life.In my own personal life my father had to take 6 pills for one reason or another 3 times a day .Surely some stress must be placed on the liver having to cope with all that.
So taking 18 pills in one day for shall we say continually for 12 months or more makes taking a 17a steroid /ds insignificant especially when the cycle is about a months duration
Are we worrying too much or is it something supplement companies put out to avoid a compensation claim
- 12-03-2008, 08:12 AM
you bring up a good point. my outlook on that is. if theres something (i don't care what) that is going to be in my body for a time (4 weeks in this case) that causes stress to the liver or whatever else, i'm going to take something if i can to ease the stress. now, running a cycle going out and buying $100.00 of liver support is crazy. my support is simple, Cycle support by a.i. no extra this or that, and i don't even use the recommended dosage. i take one scoop a day, starting a bit before the cycle and then i finish out the tub. that's it. yes people can over do the support supps. keep this in mind, every pill you put in your body has to go through what organ to get in your system? if i take 20 pills to help my liver, am i really?
- 12-03-2008, 08:18 AM
That would be like saying that drinking a liter of water, a liter of vodka or a liter of gasoline will all have the same effect on your body, because they are all a liter of liquid. It makes no sense.
Take six caps of superdrol three times a day and the 'rest of your life' will be a short one.
12-03-2008, 09:02 AM
In my original post i made the comparison between taking a cocktail of medically approved drugs which have gone through clinical tests over a long period of time to a steroid which normally is taken on a short cycle .It would be interesting to know just how much the liver has been placed under stress using both examples.
To use your example of alcohol , that too would be interesting to find out the stress the liver has been placed under by heavy drinking say over 1 month period and compare that with 1 months usage of a DS /Steroid.
I dont think the day will ever come when we see on a bottle of whiskey for example " Milk thistle is recommended to be taken daily whilest using alcohol"
Last edited by corsaking; 12-03-2008 at 09:03 AM. Reason: added text
12-03-2008, 09:21 AM
Corsa, not all substances are toxic, hazardous, detrimental, etc. to your liver. Let's take the stomach for comparison. You put a lot of stuff in there. Sure, there are lots of foods and substances that will cause damage to the stomach (strong acids/bases, hydrogen peroxide - see H2O2 thread, some RXs, etc), but there are substances which will aid the stomach as well (fiber, normal flora, some RXs, etc). And the bulk of the substances that you put in the stomach are neutral (broccoli, chicken, carrots, soup, etc).
Just because an organ has to DO something to a substance (filter, digest, process, metabolize, etc.) does not mean it's harmful or "toxic" or stressful. That's the organ's job. But, some substances, unusual toxins, put extra stresses on organs due to the detoxification that needs to take place.
I say "unusual" toxins above to identify those toxins which are typically not found in the body. The body itself makes toxins. A great example is ammonia (NH4+). Ammonia is a byproduct of protein metabolism. It is ultimately converted to urea (nontoxic) and excreted in urine.
12-03-2008, 10:28 AM
There was a thread around somewhere in which some people had anecdotes about their experiences with alcohol vs. DS's. I'll see if I can find it.
In any case, the gist of it was that chronic heavy drinking doesn't seem to hold a candle to a month of a DS.
Actually, if you search +alcohol +superdrol in entire posts, you get a lot of good threads comparing the two.
The Truth is, there is no Truth.
12-03-2008, 02:38 PM
The amount of emphasis people on the boards put on ancillaries is often way overstated, but at the same time, I would rather see that than see an attitude that was less concerned about safety...
The liver is very resilient. Elevated liver enzymes is almost certainly the only "bad" thing most users will ever experience, and even that is basically superficial inflammation. The liver has the ability to regenerate itself from as little as 25 % of the original cells. Doctors and scientists have absolutely no idea how or why it does, but obviously they are studying it very closely so they can learn more about it and hopefully someday translate that into beneficial research with the other organs.
The liver is extremely tough.....there is a pathologist who comes into the gym my friends own, and every so often he'll bring in a new study or research they've done on the liver so I can read it....its really quite an amazing organ.
12-03-2008, 02:58 PM
12-04-2008, 03:17 PM
haha my dad is a good example of a liver that can take a beating. Agreed very tough but not a reason to push doses or not be careful.
12-05-2008, 04:09 AM
12-05-2008, 04:34 AM
12-05-2008, 06:08 AM
The thing I like about AM aside from the neat christmass lights wrapped around the text (lol, I originally typed "test", not "text") is the emphasis on the slogan; Learn, Teach Lead.
Liver protection is usually advised because we want you to have a safe AND productive cycle...
I would also advise you to ware a seat belt when driving not because the chances of getting into an accident are particularly high, but because the chance or an accident DOES exist, and might not even be in your control.
Would you make the logical argument that the risk of an accident is so low to where a seat belt is not needed???
sure, you can cycle without one. Probably even without incident, many times over... but when something happens , hindsight will tell you that for such a small precaution, you were simply neglectful to go without it.
12-05-2008, 06:38 AM
12-05-2008, 09:38 AM
12-05-2008, 11:05 AM
12-05-2008, 12:02 PM
12-05-2008, 11:55 PM
We are all different. Some people may have sides without prevention, others may go indefinitely without any problems, and vice versa.
Ultimately we must practice what we preach. If I take a methylated compound I always use milk thistle pre, during, and post cycle as a preventive measure. I learned this from other's experiences posted on this site and their lab results. I have to get regular checkups with my doctor for other reasons, so I get lipid checks at least every 4 months and I know if I need to make adjustments.
I can only share my personal experiences with others, however I have zero expectation that they will be used - that is up to the reader. Xtraflossy is correct regarding the slogan of this site, and I believe the best way to execute it is to share details of our personal experiences with lab results. Those numbers don't lie - they tell you what is happening inside regardless of how you feel or what you think.
12-06-2008, 09:15 AM
I took time out of my morning at 6AM to give you a genuine response,.. and you get defensive??
Correct my spelling,.. pleeeease.
My audience was that of one. And why would I check someone's location before posting the child's warning "better safe then sorry"? It's a metaphor. You knew what I meant
"we" would be the accumulative form of poster's on AM numbnuts
12-06-2008, 01:32 PM
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