Doing Epistane w/o post cycle support?

ZoMbSta

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I was planning to do epistane but now that post cycle support is out of stock, can i still go ahead with nolva as PCT?

Also my guess is it's alright to do epistane as standalone without cycle support since it's not as harsh? this being my first cycle, i wanna make sure i actually reap the full benefit from epistane. Thanks for all the help in advance.
 

josephd79

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Why can't you find post cycle support?? Try ATD, Reversitol, or any other one of these similar products. Are you looking for a specific one?

You'll probably want something on hand cuz you may get shutdown from Epi and want to keep estrogen in check for a couple of weeks.
 
KmuL

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Get Stoked, it's the exact same formula as PCS


edit: Thanks Rugger!
 

ZoMbSta

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oh, that's good, think i will go with Stoked! as post cycle support is out of stock.

cycle support is good to have but not neccessary right?
 
KmuL

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oh, that's good, think i will go with Stoked! as post cycle support is out of stock.

cycle support is good to have but not neccessary right?
well, I say its a must especially for a methyl cycle :)
 
dg806

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Why risk the health of your liver? Not smart IMO.
 
monsterbox

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cycle support doesn't seem worth it for the nasty taste, hastle, and cost.

just buy liv52 and hawthorne berry...that covers bp and liver. When you are done you can even do some non-flush niacin low dose for cholesterol.
 
bigzach1234

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uhhh.. milk thistle, fish oil, flax, liv 52, hawthorn berry, celerey seed, coq10, red yeast rice
 
monsterbox

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uhhh.. milk thistle, fish oil, flax, liv 52, hawthorn berry, celerey seed, coq10, red yeast rice
sounds like what you would run with a pheraplex/superdrol bridge.

a short 4 week normal dosed havoc cycle...all this seems like overkill. My bp didn't even go above 145/80 at 40mgs. Dont waste money.

Besides liv52, fish oil (which you should be taking anyhow), maybe add some cissus if your joints hurt...many do not have issues.
 
thegodfather

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cycle support doesn't seem worth it for the nasty taste, hastle, and cost.

just buy liv52 and hawthorne berry...that covers bp and liver. When you are done you can even do some non-flush niacin low dose for cholesterol.
Agreed. People have no problem popping 6+ ibprofen a day or drinking a 6 pack of beer, but say the word methyl and everyone freaks. Just take it easy and cover the basics. No need to go overboard.
 

stxnas

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uhhh.. milk thistle, fish oil, flax, liv 52, hawthorn berry, celerey seed, coq10, red yeast rice
Looks very similar to Life Support or Cycle Support.

If you guys purchase tonight use the coupon code: Turkey Hangover and you'll get seven percent off EVERYTHING.
 
dg806

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cycle support doesn't seem worth it for the nasty taste, hastle, and cost.
What sides are you speaking of?
Cycle support has none? It is good for blood pressure, blood lipids and liver damage prevention.
Cost is negligible considering all this IMO
 
RoadBlocK

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Agreed. People have no problem popping 6+ ibprofen a day or drinking a 6 pack of beer, but say the word methyl and everyone freaks. Just take it easy and cover the basics. No need to go overboard.
True enough statement, but if moneys not an issue, then there would be no harm in being "extra" safe. I do agree with you though, there is no need to go overboard.
 
monsterbox

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What sides are you speaking of?
Cycle support has none? It is good for blood pressure, blood lipids and liver damage prevention.
Cost is negligible considering all this IMO
not trying to neg this product as its extremely effective at protecting ones body. But I'm being realistic and cost effective.

it costs more than the ph+SERM to have cs preload and on-cycle.

liv52 (most popular world wide liver protection), hawthorne berry (dropped my father's BP amazingly), niacin during pct for cholesterol and fish oil. = less than 25 dollars. Only thing lacking is lipid support. But on a 4 week havoc cycle this shouldn't be too much of an issue.
 
crazyfool405

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I was planning to do epistane but now that post cycle support is out of stock, can i still go ahead with nolva as PCT?

Also my guess is it's alright to do epistane as standalone without cycle support since it's not as harsh? this being my first cycle, i wanna make sure i actually reap the full benefit from epistane. Thanks for all the help in advance.

if you cant get PCS then nolva is a good choise, same with reversitol.

id recommend clomid thoguh, IMO its a better optioon.

u can use 6 oxo extreme and ATD if youd like .....

there are soooooo many options though man its ridiculous lol
 
crazyfool405

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not trying to neg this product as its extremely effective at protecting ones body. But I'm being realistic and cost effective.

it costs more than the ph+SERM to have cs preload and on-cycle.

liv52 (most popular world wide liver protection), hawthorne berry (dropped my father's BP amazingly), niacin during pct for cholesterol and fish oil. = less than 25 dollars. Only thing lacking is lipid support. But on a 4 week havoc cycle this shouldn't be too much of an issue.

i understand what your saying, but to pop 20 pills to get the effect of 1 product, that you can mix in your shake at any time makes it worth it, plus if you look for the cholesterol support, it all ends up being quite expensive, but you dont have to preload CS you can preload hawthorne and NAC and start cycle support at the start of the cycle.

and 4 weeks can still do damage to your cholesterol and your endocrine system,

take proper precautions, and use cycle support
 
monsterbox

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I really would go with reversitol for PCT and have nolva on hand.

Reversitol includes ATD and 6bromo but the combo is dosed perfectly. I felt zero sides except huge increase in libido immediately upon cessation of havoc.

It also includes resveratrol and eurycoma longfolia jack (tongkat Ali), and Indole 3 Carbinol...the resveratrol might not be quite as bioavailable as in PCS, but I dont think resveratrol does that much anyhow...its good for the heart but its def. not a SERM replacement imo..just a test booster.
 
crazyfool405

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I really would go with reversitol for PCT and have nolva on hand.

Reversitol includes ATD and 6bromo but the combo is dosed perfectly. I felt zero sides except huge increase in libido immediately upon cessation of havoc.

It also includes resveratrol and eurycoma longfolia jack (tongkat Ali), and Indole 3 Carbinol...the resveratrol might not be quite as bioavailable as in PCS, but I dont think resveratrol does that much anyhow...its good for the heart but its def. not a SERM replacement imo..just a test booster.

Reversitol ...3/2/2/1
PCS/stoked_/_/4/4/4/4

this will work VERY WELL
 

ZoMbSta

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wow, thanks for chipping in guys.

What are the bare minimum i need during cycle and PCT? I have nolva at hand already. Just seeing wat else i need before starting.

I don't wanna screw myself over, but neither does it make sense to hav support products costing close to 100 bucks for a ph that is 25 bucks. As much as i wish to be as safe as possible, don't think 100 bucks of support is possible.
 
thegodfather

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wow, thanks for chipping in guys.

What are the bare minimum i need during cycle and PCT? I have nolva at hand already. Just seeing wat else i need before starting.

I don't wanna screw myself over, but neither does it make sense to hav support products costing close to 100 bucks for a ph that is 25 bucks. As much as i wish to be as safe as possible, don't think 100 bucks of support is possible.

Just remember, though they are cheap now, one day they'll cost as much as any other steroid underground. In my opinion, the savings we have on the compound itself should be applied to support supps. There is no need however to throw the kitchen sink at it.
 

ZoMbSta

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Just remember, though they are cheap now, one day they'll cost as much as any other steroid underground. In my opinion, the savings we have on the compound itself should be applied to support supps. There is no need however to throw the kitchen sink at it.
hence wat do u suggest for me to be kept reasonable unharmed after the cycle?

or should i just do pulsing? but i was thinkin this being my first ever cycle, i should take advantage of my body's sensitivity.
 
dg806

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not trying to neg this product as its extremely effective at protecting ones body. But I'm being realistic and cost effective.

it costs more than the ph+SERM to have cs preload and on-cycle.

liv52 (most popular world wide liver protection), hawthorne berry (dropped my father's BP amazingly), niacin during pct for cholesterol and fish oil. = less than 25 dollars. Only thing lacking is lipid support. But on a 4 week havoc cycle this shouldn't be too much of an issue.
Totally understand.
But don't take lipid values too lightly. ANY oral steroid will greatly reduce HDL vaules and skyrocket LDL. Your Ratio will be very high and risk for heart attack and stroke are very high if these levels are maintained for long periods. I've seen way too many blood test that prove this. Blood test on epi are more scarce, but I have no reason to believe that it is not in line with others.
 
UnrealMachine

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I've seen good and bad bloodwork from epi, just depends on the individual
 
spres444

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i was also just readin up on oz and on T-nation a bout 2 week on 2 week off and no PCT was used. its interesting to say the least
 
monsterbox

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i was also just readin up on oz and on T-nation a bout 2 week on 2 week off and no PCT was used. its interesting to say the least
probably cuz the sh*t doesn't start to work hardcore until day 12 or so.

Its like god mode when you enter week 3 if you dont have joint issues.

Dont see the point in 2 on 2 off...
 
waynaferd

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I saved my Cycle Support for the last weeks of Epi at 40.....and just fish oil and milk thistle for the 10, 20, and 30mg days.

And I shall have enough CS left over to use this spring for my second Epi cylce.... And yeah, that stuff tastes horrific.....so it must be good for ya!!

Also low-dosing liquid nolva for the same reason.....have enough left for cycle number 2.

Restore, creatine, Z-force (ZMA), and DHEA round out the list.....fairly cheaply I may add.
 
spres444

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I saved my Cycle Support for the last weeks of Epi at 40.....and just fish oil and milk thistle for the 10, 20, and 30mg days.

And I shall have enough CS left over to use this spring for my second Epi cylce.... And yeah, that stuff tastes horrific.....so it must be good for ya!!
how were your gains of epi bro?
 
Rugger

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wow, thanks for chipping in guys.

What are the bare minimum i need during cycle and PCT? I have nolva at hand already. Just seeing wat else i need before starting.

I don't wanna screw myself over, but neither does it make sense to hav support products costing close to 100 bucks for a ph that is 25 bucks. As much as i wish to be as safe as possible, don't think 100 bucks of support is possible.
A good, safe cycle will cost you 200+ easy
 
waynaferd

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how were your gains of epi bro?

Just finishing up week three right now, and might try 50mg to see what happens...

I haven't weighed myself yet, and won't til I'm done, but definately growing bigger/stronger everyday!
 

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A good, safe cycle will cost you 200+ easy
^^ totally agree with this.. In my opinion I would never think of doing a cycle without being extra safe, especially since I am already putting myself at risk doing ph cycles at age 22.. but if I am do it, I am gonna do it right and to the max!.. Its funny though I always see the people that do everything right end up having problems versus the people that do diddly squat.. Ohhhhh the wonders of the human body
 

ZoMbSta

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yeah, decided to ditch the cycle support.

Will see how my body feels with Epistane since it's one of the mildest ph around. And how much of Nolva is needed for pct? I'm afraid of overdoing nolva and getting a bad rebound.

Don't worry guys, I wont go ahead until i get all the information i need. Thanks for helping.
 

ZoMbSta

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yeah, decided to ditch the cycle support.

Will see how my body feels with Epistane since it's one of the mildest ph around. And how much of Nolva is needed for pct? I'm afraid of overdoing nolva and getting a bad rebound.

Don't worry guys, I wont go ahead until i get all the information i need. Thanks for helping.
 
angel77

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My bloodwork experience.

during my third week of PCT I had bloodwork done after a Havoc run and everything was on point EXCEPT good cholesterol. It was quite low. I even used Cycle Support during entire cycle. Everyone reacts a little different. For PCT just use Nolva 20/20/10/10 and start Stoked or Post Cycle at beginning of week 2 PCT 2 caps am and 2 caps pm. My libido is coming back nicely. :thumbsup:
 
angel77

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yeah, decided to ditch the cycle support.

Will see how my body feels with Epistane since it's one of the mildest ph around. And how much of Nolva is needed for pct? I'm afraid of overdoing nolva and getting a bad rebound.

Don't worry guys, I wont go ahead until i get all the information i need. Thanks for helping.


NOT a PH, it's a STEROID!!
 
angel77

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Great Gains from Havoc!

how were your gains of epi bro?

I had EXCELLENT gains from Havoc! Bench max went from 235lbs to 265lbs and reps 225lbs 2x to 225 8x. Kept almost all my gains. I gained 10lbs and lost a few but strength is still up there. Remember to keep calories up during PCT.
 

corsaking

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Why can't you find post cycle support?? Try ATD, Reversitol, or any other one of these similar products. Are you looking for a specific one?

You'll probably want something on hand cuz you may get shutdown from Epi and want to keep estrogen in check for a couple of weeks.
If Epi is an anti estrogen and people are concerned of a rebound when coming off, why carnt the dosage be tapered down after reaching the week or weeks that max dose is achieved?
 

ZoMbSta

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during my third week of PCT I had bloodwork done after a Havoc run and everything was on point EXCEPT good cholesterol. It was quite low. I even used Cycle Support during entire cycle. Everyone reacts a little different. For PCT just use Nolva 20/20/10/10 and start Stoked or Post Cycle at beginning of week 2 PCT 2 caps am and 2 caps pm. My libido is coming back nicely. :thumbsup:
20/20/10/10 i assume u mean week 1 to week 4? Why do u take Stoked on the 2nd week? Shouldnt it be started right after cycle is done?
 
angel77

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20/20/10/10 i assume u mean week 1 to week 4? Why do u take Stoked on the 2nd week? Shouldnt it be started right after cycle is done?

I was told it helps prevent rebound if you stagger the dosing to the 2nd or 3rd week before starting your AI. Just use Nolva for the first 2 weeks PCT. Remember to continue to use your Fish Oil and other support supps during PCT. Cheers, angel77
 

ZoMbSta

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so how should I dose nolva on a daily basis for a 4 week cycle max dosage of 30mg? thanks.
 
angel77

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Nolva 20/20/10/10 is plenty. You won't need to go 20mg on third & fourth week.
 

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