novedex-xt as ai in a test e cycle
11-12-2008 07:46 PM
novedex-xt as ai in a test e cycle
hi guys, im starting my test e cycle next week; 250 mgs each 5 days, with a 3 weeks 10 mgs sd kickstart, the question here is, can i use novedex as an AI in my cycle??, because arimidex, letro, adn those goods ai's are very expensive here in mexico, but novedex is at a decent price. what do you think about it?, or should i do a 10 mgs eod nolvadex ?
11-12-2008 07:52 PM
Ive been using rebound reloaded for a while now with test eq and now tren and no problems. Its not a cost issue though-- search for research chems for cheap stuff.
11-12-2008 10:59 PM
I 2nd that def. do a search. Plenty of good places.
Also why do you want to use an AI anyway? are you gyno prone 1st of all?
IMO def. have it on hand but I wouldn't use it unless you feel your gyno flaring up.
You want some estrogen and all you'll be doing is inhibiting gains.
11-13-2008 01:08 AM
i was thinking of an ai because of bloating, ive been searching a lot ofr this kind of cycles and everyone says that they get bloated while on test.
11-13-2008 02:56 AM
The theory that ATD could reduce bloat has surfaced on this board from time to time but nobody has really tested it before.
It sounds plausible that ATD could reduce water retention on a testosterone cycle but nobody is really sure how effective ATD is as an AI. It could be that ATD is only marginally effective explaining why it hasn't been taken up by a drug company as an anti-estrogen to treat breast cancer.
But in real terms you have nothing to lose by trying it. ATD is relatively inexpensive and if you posted your results on this board you could finally put the matter to rest.
11-13-2008 11:57 AM
This is a topic I brought up in another thread about using otc instead of adex however it is interesting in theory I dont know if it would work, I might try using nxt or an equivilant later in my cycle of test as I dont know what to expect as far as estro sides, bloat etc. If I do I will of course let people know resluts.
11-13-2008 03:35 PM
ok guys, ill give novedex a try, its cheap as space says, and i have nothing to loose, ill try a low dose.
11-13-2008 04:03 PM
Probably better to try the regular dosage of 3 caps spread throughout the day because the regular dosage is for people with marginally elevated estrogen levels and you will have supraphysiologically high estrogen levels while on cycle.
Originally Posted by ag77
Anything less is likely to prove ineffective.
11-13-2008 04:48 PM
correct me if im wrong...but doesnt atd compete at teh receptor site? wouldnt this hurt gains while on cycle?
11-13-2008 06:14 PM
I dont know if 3 caps would be necessary maybe eod but I would think 1/day or oven 1 eod might be worth a try first rather than full dose
11-13-2008 07:08 PM
ATD is an aromatase inhibitor not an estrogen antagonist. But nobody knows how effective it is as an aromatase inhibitor.
Originally Posted by mooch2321
I would suggest using the standard dose and if that works then excellent. Why use less when ATD is so inexpensive?
Using the standard dose will give you an accurate idea of whether ATD is effective at all for reducing water retention. If you started with a small dose it would be difficult to tell if it is effective.
11-13-2008 07:22 PM
yeah bro...in know its an ai...but id check into the mechanics behind its function...theres prob a reason why noone uses it on cycle
Originally Posted by Space
11-13-2008 07:46 PM
did you know this:
Originally Posted by ag77
I just received my order of Novadex XT and I can't wait to use it, but I have few concerns after reading about it.
1) What's up with the following disclaimer?
WARNING: This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause birth defects or other reproductive harm.
I've never seen such a label on any supplements I've taken. I know pro-hormones come with such disclaimers, but this isn't a pro-hormone, so why the disclaimer?
2) I've read that using Novadex XT raises DHT levels which can cause hair loss, especially if you're hairline is already receding; I'm already experiencing some male pattern baldness, and I don't want to speed up the process. Will Novadex XT really speed up the process of hair loss?
The disclaimer is for when people are trying for a baby. It will affect the process and can be negative to the infant if you conceive. It affects your sperm in that it will not grow a tail etc, so hence the reproductive harm. It will also cause harm if taken for long periods without breaks in between as with any testosterone enhancer. Keep to the instructions and you should be fine.
As for the hair lose, again if you use it for long periods.
11-13-2008 07:50 PM
heres a good write up th at makes me question why we arent including atd in every cycle.....lol
ATD (3,17-dioxo-etiochol-1,4,6-triene) is a recent introduction to estrogen control. It is thought to stop estrogen production in a manner similar to steroidal AIís such as exemestane. Brand name ATDís are Rebound XT, Rebound Reloaded, Novedex XT, Ultra H.O.T and Ultra H.O.T.ter.
ATD is technically an aromatase inhibitor, but with some interesting properties that make it a very useful addition to our estrogen control arsenals.
There are two negative feedback loops that we try to correct through post cycle therapy. The first is elevated estrogen levels from aromatase activity act on the hypothalamus to decrease GnRH production. The second is that elevated androgen levels stimulate androgen receptors in the hypothalamus causing decreased GnRH production. Decreased GnRH leads to reduced LH and FSH production, both of which are directly involved in testosterone production.
Typical PCT with SERMís and AIís address the estrogen component of this negative feedback, but do nothing for androgenic stimulation of the hypothalamus. ATD addresses the androgenic feedback loop. ATD has 90% androgenic activity in muscle tissue but only 10% androgenic activity in the hypothalamus.
ATD works for androgen activity the same way that tamoxifen works for estrogen. Tamoxifen blocks estrogen in breast tissue, but has positive effects in other tissue such as liver and bone. ATD blocks androgens in the hypothalamus, but allows it to be active in other tissue.
Because of this dual action estrogen levels are lowered while testosterone levels begin to rise. This is because ATD tricks your hypothalamus into thinking testosterone levels are low so it produces more. ATD provides benefits far beyond simply controlling estrogen in your body. Through its control over the androgen negative feedback loop testosterone production is restarted much faster. And the faster you recover your natural testosterone production the easier it is to keep muscular gains.
In addition to ATDís benefits for post cycle therapy studies have shown that employing ATD during AAS use maintains significant HPTA function. This means reduced testicular atrophy and faster post-cycle recovery. This is something that you simply canít get from estrogen control alone.
ATD can also be used by the natural athlete to increase testosterone production. In studies increases of up to 400% in testosterone have been seen. This is equivalent to injecting 400-600mg per week of testosterone enanthate or cypionate. This means continued growth for the natural athlete without the problems and side effects usually associated with injecting testosterone.
While there should technically not be any difference between the ATD ptoducts I have personally seen the best results using Rebound XT by Designer Supplements. I believe it is also the most cost effective of the ATD products out there. Your mileage may vary.
Iíve found the following discussion on running SERMís inverse to ATDís which is both informative and by all accounts very effective. It has been posted on many forums and the credit for it goes to Dr. D. Thank you Dr. D!
ďDiscussion on running SERM inverse to ATD
Estrogen only ďreboundsĒ based on the mechanism of suppression. SERM, for example, only masks estrogen expression by occupying receptors but estrogen production is left unchecked and actually increases as testosterone levels increase. AIís like letro inhibit inducible enzymes and just like a leaky faucet, they body will eventually try to balance the equation with increased aromatase activity. Steroidal AIís like Teslac, Exemestane, and ReboundXT will not result in Ďreboundí phenomena because the inhibition is non-competitive and irreversible. They act as false substrates, so aromatase is still happy to act on them (instead of androstenedione) and the body keeps no record of an imbalance. There is no leaky faucet. In fact, after prolonged use, steroidal AIís often produce a protracted anti-e benefit even after being discontinued. This is why I suggest an inverse taper with SERM and RXT for PCT with an abrupt stoppage of RXT at the end. As the SERM elevates androgen/estrogen production, the AI dose is increased to compensate while the SERM is phased out. It works quite well to use this approach and rebound is not encountered. Adding LX and/or DHEA also really makes for a killer PCT in this scheme.
This is a typical example of my PCT:
wk1: Clomid 150mg/d, RXT 25mg/d, DHEA 200mg/d, LX 75mg/d wk2: Clomid 100mg/d, RXT 25mg/d, DHEA 200mg/d, LX 50mg/d wk3: Nolva 60mg/d, RXT 50mg/d, DHEA 200mg/d, LX 25mg/d wk4: Nolva 40mg/d, RXT 50mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d wk5: Nolva 20mg/d, RXT 75mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d wk6: RXT 75mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d
Notice I phase the Clomid out and introduce the Nolva later. This helps prevent sides from developing from accumulation of estrogenic metabolites from the Clomid and also acts to minimize the use of Nolva, which is more liver toxic than Clomid. Rebound is very unlikely and estrogen biosynthesis will likely be significantly lowered for 3+ wks even after the end of this PCT. I do long ones, as you can see.Ē
11-14-2008 04:57 AM
-60 mg test enanthate weekly
-10 IU's HGH weekly
-One bottle of Methyl V-Testearlier on this thread i read a brief discussion about succes with OTC post cycle therapy. I am thinking of trying Tribfolia or 6-oxo...have any suggestions? thanks
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