Tren Sub? On cutting cycle

[Footballjones]

I had a post earlier about starting a cutting cycle with tren prop and winny, runnig for about 12 weeks, looking for small wieght gains with good strength gains. Looking for speed and explosiveness. Football player and play wide out. Weight 215, I will be starting this in the off season. Anyways the question is what would be a good sub for tren ace, im hearing a lot of horror stories and thinking about switiching to something else. Runnig Prop for 10 weeks, 100mg eod, winny for weeks 8-12, any suggestions of what to jump start the cycle with or stack in the middle. Im up for suggestion:dl:

 

[nosnmiveins]

anavar would be nice, pricey though

 

[Footballjones]

i found anavar made me hella tired, i dont no if it was legit or not, but i didnt like it when i took it wit prop b4, but thanks, any other ideas?

 

[nosnmiveins]

dbol and drol are best for strength, but it'll probably throw weight on fast.

maybe 25mg of dbol or 50mg of drol?


EQ would be ideal but it needs to be run 14+ weeks

 

[holyintellect]

looking for small wieght gains with good strength gains. Looking for speed and explosiveness.

Small weight gains means you need to stay away from virtually all androgens, as they are going to pack it on. There isnt an anabolic or an androgen that will provide you with speed and explosiveness....they will simply allow you to train in a manner that will promote you from where your speeds are now...yet another reason why an anabolic would be preferred here...it will keep your weight down, allowing each of those two things to occur. I would go with winstrol or eq....I think eq can give you what you want here....

Anyways the question is what would be a good sub for tren ace,

Tren is in a class by iteslf....there really isnt something to substitute for it....tren will give you all the benefits of using an androgen without the crazy water that they bring with it.

 

[Footballjones]

I would go with winstrol or eq....I think eq can give you what you want here....
what about going with eq stack with winstrol?

 

[UnrealMachine]

I would go with winstrol or eq....I think eq can give you what you want here....
what about going with eq stack with winstrol?

that doesn't work so well, winstrol has a very short half life necessitating every day injections. EQ has one of the longest half lives, some people say it takes 10-12 weeks just to kick in... and nobody would run Winny that long, aside from becoming a pincushion, it may start to be hell on your joints.

you could do a long EQ cycle and throw in the winny at the end when it has actually kicked in i suppose

 

[Apowerz6]

Yeah If anything ditch the winny IMO,Unless you are competing IMHO opinion winny should not be used, just to androgenic, and effing HARSH on joints- use primo instead, although costly it will help you retain muscle, Harden you up like winny but not really pack on serious lbs. Tren is the NECTAR OF GODS MAN!!!

And if you try Tren go with Ace, not enanthate people who have serious sides usually have it with the Enanthate.

 

[mooch2321]

that doesn't work so well, winstrol has a very short half life necessitating every day injections. EQ has one of the longest half lives, some people say it takes 10-12 weeks just to kick in... and nobody would run Winny that long, aside from becoming a pincushion, it may start to be hell on your joints.

you could do a long EQ cycle and throw in the winny at the end when it has actually kicked in i suppose

who says eq takes 10-12 weeks to kick in? i wouldnt run it for less than 10-12 weeks but it sure doesnt take that long to see the full effects...on the other hand the effects are pretty subtle but....im goin with holy on this, run the eq.

 

[UnrealMachine]

who says eq takes 10-12 weeks to kick in? i wouldnt run it for less than 10-12 weeks but it sure doesnt take that long to see the full effects...on the other hand the effects are pretty subtle but....im goin with holy on this, run the eq.

I should have said to "fully" kick in... people on the Internet say it. I have never run EQ and really don't plan to, but in my reading people say it's an absolute waste unless it's run for longer than 14 weeks. If i were to run it, it would probably be 800mg ew and 16-18 weeks, with a test base and hcg.

 

[mooch2321]

I should have said to "fully" kick in... people on the Internet say it. I have never run EQ and really don't plan to, but in my reading people say it's an absolute waste unless it's run for longer than 14 weeks. If i were to run it, it would probably be 800mg ew and 16-18 weeks, with a test base and hcg.

dont believe everything you read on the internet. your "reading" is wrong. no offense intended bro...but this is gonna offend you, i apologize in advance. you have never run a cycle other than a few prohormones. your using theoretical knowledge that you "read" on the internet. should you really be giving people advice about something you have never done? i personally have never run phera...sooo u will never see me giving people advice about how to run phera. again no offense intended...god bless...go cowboys

 

[UnrealMachine]

i see and concede your point, but i don't need to run EQ to know that a winstrol and EQ stack can't be run in parallel, which is why i said to throw winny in at the end

i may be wrong about EQ kick in time but i can still tell someone not to stack EQ and Winny for X weeks because that's just obvious

 

[Footballjones]

i no this post is on subbing for tren,
but if it was to go weeks 1-5 tren 75 mg eod, and prop 100mg weeks 1-10, is that good or anyone think i should add some winny or something at the end....

 

[holyintellect]

Tren and prop is a very good stack alone...no need to add anything else in...you should run the tren longer than 5 weeks though...preferably about 8 or so...

holy

 

[Footballjones]

k sounds good, thanks everyone for their input. my last question is, wen should i start running estrogen blockers, should i run during the cycle or after week 12

 

[holyintellect]

My preference is to run arimidex during cycle (if you need it) to keep the water off....and then run nolva post cycle to keep the estrogen under control while your testes get up and running again.

holy

 

[Distilled Water]

My preference is to run arimidex during cycle (if you need it) to keep the water off....and then run nolva post cycle to keep the estrogen under control while your testes get up and running again.

holy

For sure. Run adex or letro on your off days of pinning (for simplicity IMO)

 

[Footballjones]

nice, thanks everyone for thier imput, ima go with 4 15ml bottles of prop and 4 10ml bottles of tren ace....that should last for 7 weeks at 75mg eod, right?

 

[Footballjones]

also thoughts on taking hcg shots during the cycle?

 

[Distilled Water]

I do not see any reason to. I dont know if it was mentioned earlier but some cabergoline would be a good investment if your running tren ace for some prolactin issues.

 

[Footballjones]

cabergoline

When and why would i take this?

 

[nosnmiveins]

When and why would i take this?

to prevent prolactin induced gyno, i.e. leaky nips.

a great cycle would be this:

Prop 100mg EOD 1-8
Tren Ace 75mg EOD 1-6
HCG 500iu E5D 2-8
Caber .5mg 2x a week 1-8

i plan on running that exact cycle in jan

 

[Emkay237]

no need for the HCG in a cycle that short imo. with 8 weeks you might not even get atrophy