Planning out a future P-Plex Cycle

[monsterbox]

Well I've tackled 1 3ad, and 2 havoc cycles 1 low dosed and upper dosed. I've gained a solid 34lbs in total this year.

Next year, Id like to mess with the big boys. My stomach drops as I think of the excitement of gaining massive weight on p-plex. I'm starting to plan this out now and get a solid train of thought.

CEL P-Plex - 10 for a few days, 20, 30, 30

Now i'm really concerened about bloat and estrogen control.

I've seen people use ATD, 6oxo, 6bromo, foremstane and others for on cycle estrogen control. What is the typical OTC protocol for a slightly aromatizing bulker like pheraplex to minimize retention/puffiness?

I've taken I Force Reversitol twice, which contains ATD, 6Bromo, and I3C, resveratrol etc...what about running this ON-Cycle

Or how about running dermacrine?

Or how about running a low dose of epistane at 10mg...its extremely dry to my body?

Theres just WAY to many choices/pathways to run this monster.

For PCT I was considering Toremifene, Reversitol, and L-Dopa + P-5-P, or maybe something like Vitex/Powerfull for progestin control.

I just can't find a solid tested,tried, and true protocol for pheraplex. I mean epistane is straight forward...run it and take a serm or otc with AI PCS or Reversitol...

 

[trentime420]

your talking about phera like its this hardcore injectable. follow the same protocol as you would with any other prohormone whether that is a SERM or an OTC AI. the choice is really up to you.

 

[monsterbox]

well its a hell of alot more potent than havoc, and havoc has brought me really far. I'm just trying to be as smart and safe as possible. Theres no such thing as taking to many precautions when gyno surgery costs 5k.

 

[Space]

Pheraplex doesn't aromatize because it's a DHT derivative. It does cause considerable edema though, possibly via aldosterone. This means that using an aromatase inhibitor while on cycle isn't going to reduce edema.

I'm currently on a P-Plex cycle. I'm planning 8 weeks at 10/20/30/40/40/40/40/40. I'm at week 2 and not very impressed at this stage. While I'm only at 20 mg ED at the moment with no apparent side effects, strength gains have been marginal while weight has risen significantly. I have gained 12 pounds in 2 weeks and it has to be mostly edema because strength gains haven't been nearly proportional.

It might sound unreal but I drink 6 L of water a day so it's very likely that I am retaining a lot of water. But I am really quite dissatisfied with seeing the scale move up so rapidly without a significant increase in strength.

 

[monsterbox]

Pheraplex doesn't aromatize because it's a DHT derivative. It does cause considerable edema though, possibly via aldosterone. This means that using an aromatase inhibitor while on cycle isn't going to reduce edema.

I'm currently on a P-Plex cycle. I'm planning 8 weeks at 10/20/30/40/40/40/40/40. I'm at week 2 and not very impressed at this stage. While I'm only at 20 mg ED at the moment with no apparent side effects, strength gains have been marginal while weight has risen significantly. I have gained 12 pounds in 2 weeks and it has to be mostly edema because strength gains haven't been nearly proportional.

It might sound unreal but I drink 6 L of water a day so it's very likely that I am retaining a lot of water. But I am really quite dissatisfied with seeing the scale move up so rapidly without a significant increase in strength.

12lbs is a HELL of alot of water weight if thats it lol....hell id be happy if 4-5 of that was lbm...what do you think? If say only 30% of that was lbm and you are only on week 2......not doubt you will be feared by all the human species by the end of your 8 weeks. that would end up at least 12lbs of real muscle.

I noticed in my first havoc cycle, my strength didn't increase nearly as much as I expected...it was more of a slow bump up in weight each workout, more of a "good day" everyday kinda thing. And walked away owning 9 real pounds.

question...I thought the term edema meant "swelling" i've never heard it used in terms of water gain lol

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Pheraplex doesn't aromatize because it's a DHT derivative. It does cause considerable edema though, possibly via aldosterone. This means that using an aromatase inhibitor while on cycle isn't going to reduce edema.

I'm currently on a P-Plex cycle. I'm planning 8 weeks at 10/20/30/40/40/40/40/40. I'm at week 2 and not very impressed at this stage. While I'm only at 20 mg ED at the moment with no apparent side effects, strength gains have been marginal while weight has risen significantly. I have gained 12 pounds in 2 weeks and it has to be mostly edema because strength gains haven't been nearly proportional.

It might sound unreal but I drink 6 L of water a day so it's very likely that I am retaining a lot of water. But I am really quite dissatisfied with seeing the scale move up so rapidly without a significant increase in strength.

Your doing 8 weeks of p-plex that is just insane and not a wise choice in my opinion. I urge you to rethink that cycle but I wish you well:jaw:

 

[celc5]

Phera gains in lean mass peaked for me around day 28 or 30. I ran 20/30/40/40/40. The fifth week was unproductive in terms of lean mass, but strength continued to steadily increase for the entire 5 weeks of the cycle.

I gained about 7 pounds of lean mass in 5 weeks. Anybody who says they gained 10+ probably got fat. You'll find that you'll be very carb sensitive on phera, whereas other desingers allow you to chow down without fat gains.

Phera does NOT aromatize and I have a hard time believing that anyone ever got gyno from phera. I did have prolactin symptoms periodically through my cycle and pct. As long as the dosages don't get too out of control, these symptoms should be minimal.

The best part about phera for me is the strength and vascularity. The worst part was a "blurry" lack of concentration feeling and the very mild prolactin issues.

Phera "feels" more harsh than havoc and halo. But I wouldn't say it's more potent in terms of gains.

 

[Space]

Your doing 8 weeks of p-plex that is just insane and not a wise choice in my opinion. I urge you to rethink that cycle but I wish you well:jaw:

I understand people aren't fond of 6+ week cycles on this board but I plan on getting a blood test at week 4 and it's pretty common to cycle D-bol for 8 weeks.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

I understand people aren't fond of 6+ week cycles on this board but I plan on getting a blood test at week 4 and it's pretty common to cycle D-bol for 8 weeks.

Most people will tell you the gains are not going to be as productive after 4-5 weeks but sides can be worse. I wish you well.

 

[Space]

12lbs is a HELL of alot of water weight if thats it lol....hell id be happy if 4-5 of that was lbm...what do you think? If say only 30% of that was lbm and you are only on week 2......not doubt you will be feared by all the human species by the end of your 8 weeks. that would end up at least 12lbs of real muscle.

I noticed in my first havoc cycle, my strength didn't increase nearly as much as I expected...it was more of a slow bump up in weight each workout, more of a "good day" everyday kinda thing. And walked away owning 9 real pounds.

question...I thought the term edema meant "swelling" i've never heard it used in terms of water gain lol

Yea, the strength increases have been just like a good day in the gym with steady increases in all lifts, not like the incredible strength gains I had on superdrol though.

Not many people use the term but any water retention is technically edema. Pre-med was fun until I realised I wasn't smart enough to be a doctor

 

[monsterbox]

Yea, the strength increases have been just like a good day in the gym with steady increases in all lifts, not like the incredible strength gains I had on superdrol though.

Not many people use the term but any water retention is technically edema. Pre-med was fun until I realised I wasn't smart enough to be a doctor

didn't know that...i was diagnosed with bone-edema in my right elbow...they said it was bruising of the bones??








I don't understand the point of pheraplex if its not much more "potent" in terms of lbm gains then havoc which is far less side effective. And how is pheraplex more anabolic and just as androgenic as superdrol, but people have less gains then with superdrol?

And what are the prolactin sides discussed above? Stated minor prolactin "issues". Like nipples leaking? Or severe sex drive loss from increased levels? Is this the same prolactin feeling that I got from novladex?

 

[celc5]

I don't understand the point of pheraplex if its not much more "potent" in terms of lbm gains then havoc which is far less side effective. And how is pheraplex more anabolic and just as androgenic as superdrol, but people have less gains then with superdrol?

And what are the prolactin sides discussed above? Stated minor prolactin "issues". Like nipples leaking? Or severe sex drive loss from increased levels? Is this the same prolactin feeling that I got from novladex?

In response to the first half of your post, everyone is different. I shared my personal opinion regarding potency following my experiences with h-drol, pheraplex, and Havoc. Others may disagree and say phera is more potent.

To clarify, I considered occasional "pins and needles" feeling in the nipples to be mild prolactin-like side effects. They occured almost daily while ON cycle and through the first 1/2 of pct. There were just a few transient occasions of a sharp pain, which felt like a needle poking outward from the inside. I did not have any leaking.

 

[boggs67ss]

Phera gains in lean mass peaked for me around day 28 or 30. I ran 20/30/40/40/40. The fifth week was unproductive in terms of lean mass, but strength continued to steadily increase for the entire 5 weeks of the cycle.

I gained about 7 pounds of lean mass in 5 weeks. Anybody who says they gained 10+ probably got fat. You'll find that you'll be very carb sensitive on phera, whereas other desingers allow you to chow down without fat gains.

Phera does NOT aromatize and I have a hard time believing that anyone ever got gyno from phera. I did have prolactin symptoms periodically through my cycle and pct. As long as the dosages don't get too out of control, these symptoms should be minimal.

The best part about phera for me is the strength and vascularity. The worst part was a "blurry" lack of concentration feeling and the very mild prolactin issues.

Phera "feels" more harsh than havoc and halo. But I wouldn't say it's more potent in terms of gains.

Did you take anything for the prolactin issues? I hear vitex or p5p can help with that.

 

[monsterbox]

yes what did you not take anything like p-5-p or powerfull?...those symptoms sound like the itchyness step of estrogen induced gyno

 

[celc5]

Did you take anything for the prolactin issues? I hear vitex or p5p can help with that.

I ran a low dose of formestane through the second 1/2 of the cycle... so no, at the time I didn't really have a prolactin "prevention" plan in place. IIRC, I ran hyperdrol in pct for my AI and a low dose of torem. Typical B6 worked just fine for these mild symptoms. I had no sign of estrogen or gyno as the previous poster suggested.

I had waaay worse prolactin issues following SD pct. Luckily, no leakage again. It took a combination of several dopamenergic supplements and a hefty dose of B6 to squelch those symptoms after SD.

 

[Caferacer]

Pheraplex doesn't aromatize because it's a DHT derivative. It does cause considerable edema though, possibly via aldosterone. This means that using an aromatase inhibitor while on cycle isn't going to reduce edema.

I'm currently on a P-Plex cycle. I'm planning 8 weeks at 10/20/30/40/40/40/40/40. I'm at week 2 and not very impressed at this stage. While I'm only at 20 mg ED at the moment with no apparent side effects, strength gains have been marginal while weight has risen significantly. I have gained 12 pounds in 2 weeks and it has to be mostly edema because strength gains haven't been nearly proportional.

It might sound unreal but I drink 6 L of water a day so it's very likely that I am retaining a lot of water. But I am really quite dissatisfied with seeing the scale move up so rapidly without a significant increase in strength.

Just wait for it. It's gets better around the third and forth week.

Watch for back pumps though. I had them get so painful I was laying down between sets because it hurt to sit.

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

I am really interested in why you are choosing P-Plex. I just finished an Epi cycle and I am looking into P-Plex to start next year. I have tried M-Drol and liked that compound as well so I am really debating P-Plex vs M-Drol again. I am definately looking for lean mass. I hope by that time to have the belly almost gone by that time so I should be able to handle the added water weight of P-Plex.

What are your thoughts?

 

[celc5]

I am really interested in why you are choosing P-Plex. I just finished an Epi cycle and I am looking into P-Plex to start next year. I have tried M-Drol and liked that compound as well so I am really debating P-Plex vs M-Drol again. I am definately looking for lean mass. I hope by that time to have the belly almost gone by that time so I should be able to handle the added water weight of P-Plex.

What are your thoughts?

I had some mild bloat on Pheraplex. But, never really realized it until it cleared up within a few days of post cycle. So Even if there's bloat on cycle, it's not like it stays. IMO don't choose or not choose a compound based on bloat for these short designer cycles. Weigh out your pros and cons in terms of potential for lean mass gains and other more dangerous sides.

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

I had some mild bloat on Pheraplex. But, never really realized it until it cleared up within a few days of post cycle. So Even if there's bloat on cycle, it's not like it stays. IMO don't choose or not choose a compound based on bloat for these short designer cycles. Weigh out your pros and cons in terms of potential for lean mass gains and other more dangerous sides.

What other PH/PS have you taken? If any, how did P-Plex compare? I am not really worried about about the bloat too much, but I have had a hard time figuring out the major advantages of P-Plex.

 

[celc5]

What other PH/PS have you taken? If any, how did P-Plex compare? I am not really worried about about the bloat too much, but I have had a hard time figuring out the major advantages of P-Plex.

Pheraplex pros: incredible strength, vascularity, and pumps; pretty good, but not incredible lean mass gains
cons: prolactin potential, "foggy" mental state is common, "felt" a bit more harsh on the hpta than halo or havoc

Havoc was slightly less potent in terms of lean mass, but felt much less harsh in terms of hpta. No sides except lethargy.

Halo "felt" milder, and was the most productive in terms of lean mass and fat loss. No sides except potent back pumps.

I ran a short SD bridge after havoc. It is absolutely explosive in every category. If you're willing to crush libido and get shut down, superdrol is an awesome experience. It's shouldn't even be mentioned in the same category as the others. Too bad for the libido issue or it would have been a fun ride.

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

Pheraplex pros: incredible strength, vascularity, and pumps; pretty good, but not incredible lean mass gains
cons: prolactin potential, "foggy" mental state is common, "felt" a bit more harsh on the hpta than halo or havoc

Havoc was slightly less potent in terms of lean mass, but felt much less harsh in terms of hpta. No sides except lethargy.

Halo "felt" milder, and was the most productive in terms of lean mass and fat loss. No sides except potent back pumps.

I ran a short SD bridge after havoc. It is absolutely explosive in every category. If you're willing to crush libido and get shut down, superdrol is an awesome experience. It's shouldn't even be mentioned in the same category as the others. Too bad for the libido issue or it would have been a fun ride.

Sorry for the thread hijack. I might have to stick with M-Drol then.

 

[Caferacer]

Pheraplex pros: incredible strength, vascularity, and pumps; pretty good, but not incredible lean mass gains
cons: prolactin potential, "foggy" mental state is common, "felt" a bit more harsh on the hpta than halo or havoc

Havoc was slightly less potent in terms of lean mass, but felt much less harsh in terms of hpta. No sides except lethargy.

Halo "felt" milder, and was the most productive in terms of lean mass and fat loss. No sides except potent back pumps.

I ran a short SD bridge after havoc. It is absolutely explosive in every category. If you're willing to crush libido and get shut down, superdrol is an awesome experience. It's shouldn't even be mentioned in the same category as the others. Too bad for the libido issue or it would have been a fun ride.

You were foggy?

When I took phera plex I felt GREAT. No fogginess whatsoever.

I do agree on the bloat. There were a few lbs but nothing too bad at all.

 

[UnrealMachine]

my experience with SD and PP

_________SD_____PP
pumps____7______7
veins_____5______5 (Epi is the only compound that would score high here)
mass_____10_____7
strength__10_____6 (doesn't really start until week 4)
sides_____2______2 (i don't get much sides)
libido_____8______5 (5 being normal)
mental___9______6 (on SD i felt like king ****ing kong)

SD was good for my libido... I don't think i'll ever both with Phera again.

 

[monsterbox]

my experience with SD and PP

_________SD_____PP
pumps____7______7
veins_____5______5 (Epi is the only compound that would score high here)
mass_____10_____7
strength__10_____6 (doesn't really start until week 4)
sides_____2______2 (i don't get much sides)
libido_____8______5 (5 being normal)
mental___9______6 (on SD i felt like king ****ing kong)

SD was good for my libido... I don't think i'll ever both with Phera again.

what?


and how about shutdown/recovery....Id love to hit up the drol but I'm terrified from all the hysteria about gyno, delayed, severe libido loss, shutdown etc...doesn't seem as bad with phera

 

[UnrealMachine]

what?


and how about shutdown/recovery....Id love to hit up the drol but I'm terrified from all the hysteria about gyno, delayed, severe libido loss, shutdown etc...doesn't seem as bad with phera

i meant to say bother. I won't bother with PPlex again. Why should I, when SD is better for mass (and gives better QUALITY mass), gives much better strength, and affects my mood and libido better

Shutdown was more significant with SD than most PH i have run but by a SMALL margin, not by the wide margin everyone had led me to believe. My cycle was 7 weeks total, Epi bridged to SD and I ran 4 weeks of Toremifene to recover no problems... Remember a 4 week SERM is what people run for post cycle after doing something like Test, Deca, Dbol where the PCT starts after being on for 14 weeks! I've never had a problem with recovery and never expect to.

I strongly believe that the shutdown and sides on SD are grossly exaggerated. I gave them both a 2 for sides because I didn't really get any. And as for gyno, i have seen numerous posts where people got delayed gyno from both superdrol AND pheraplex so it's not a good argument for choosing Phera.

And as for libido, SD is the only steroid i've tried that significantly raised my libido. I would say it is largely unaffected by Phera (probably a little up at first and then a little down towards the end). With SD it was up, and up into PCT as well, which goes against everything i've read....

Bottom line is everyone is different, you won't know until you try.

I think you have a decent cycle outlined as far as putting on some weight, but what i'm trying to get at here is that i was also scared away from SD for a long time but I ran it and it's by far my favorite, every other DS/PH is extremely disappointing in comparison.

I've run PheraPlex up to 50mg ed and it doesn't compare to SD at 20mg. But then again, I react really weird to steroids as i've said before Epi and Hdrol don't work on me, so maybe my personal experience isn't the best to go by. No one else has increased libido in SD lol, especially post SD cycle. I am just weird.

 

[Space]

my experience with SD and PP

_________SD_____PP
pumps____7______7
veins_____5______5 (Epi is the only compound that would score high here)
mass_____10_____7
strength__10_____6 (doesn't really start until week 4)
sides_____2______2 (i don't get much sides)
libido_____8______5 (5 being normal)
mental___9______6 (on SD i felt like king ****ing kong)

SD was good for my libido... I don't think i'll ever both with Phera again.

I think you pretty much nailed it here. The only thing I would add is you tend to lose a significant amount of hair on pheraplex, while SD is mild on the hair. But SD really ruins your blood lipid profile causing hypercholesterolemia, which nobody really knows how long it takes to recover from.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I've never had hairloss on cycle. That would make sense tho as PP is more androgenic ya. Well chalk up another point for SD.

 

[monsterbox]

wow. thanks for all the information.

I had insane libido on havoc, both times and many report a noticeable drop. Novla is the only thing that fuc*ked me.

Id love to try superdrol, but I have torn cartlidge in my elbow. Its perfectly fine with Cissus right now and I can lift hard and heavy, but I'm afraid that epistane above 20mg really dry's the sh*t out of the joint even with Cissus/Glucosamine...thats particularly why I was leaning towards the wetness of pheraplex.

Does superdrol dry you out to the extent of epistane? I felt tremendous pain in my elbow on epi...so bad that I quit working out for 2 week and had mri and ct-scan! Mid way through pct pain is gone!

 

[Space]

Superdrol didn't dry me out and I am particularly susceptible to dry joints.

 

[monsterbox]

damn man...now I can't choose between the two.

Id love to try superdrol but i've always sworn Id do real gear before I ever touch it because of massive gyno stories.

I've yet to hear of delayed gyno caused from undetectible estrogen rebound with phera. Not to mention the fact that there were hardly any gyno stories with the AX superdrol, and not with all these clones out tons of people are getting gyno, possibly due to the fact that the clones are a dirty derivative of anadrol which is easier to make from.

 

[celc5]

You were foggy?
When I took phera plex I felt GREAT. No fogginess whatsoever.
I do agree on the bloat. There were a few lbs but nothing too bad at all.

Don't get me wrong, I felt strong and confident. I do a lot of fast paced critical thinking at worked and noticed that I just couldn't keep up while on. It was the side that took the absolute longest to clear up too... maybe 6-8 weeks. No joke!

I've never had a problem with recovery and never expect to.

Uh oh, another youngster with resiliant hpta that says SD is a kitten :lol: Seriously bro, 6 or 7 years makes a difference. SD squashed my libido in 10 or 12 days flat. Took about 2 and 1/2 weeks to recover in pct too.

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

The more I look the more confused I get. Since I have taken M-Drol already, it might be better to change the compound. If that is the case, it might be between P-plex and H-Drol. Damn decisions. Is it true that P-plex should be run a min of 5-6 weeks?

 

[celc5]

The more I look the more confused I get. Since I have taken M-Drol already, it might be better to change the compound. If that is the case, it might be between P-plex and H-Drol. Damn decisions. Is it true that P-plex should be run a min of 5-6 weeks?

I'd personally pick halo, but everyone has their preferences and favorites. Consider that there's a handful that end up disappointed with phera results. But you RARELY see anyone who ran 75-100mg of halo without getting at least satisfactory results.

IMO regarding phera length, I had a real hard time gaining any more lean mass after about 25-28 days. My fifth week was nothing but a strain on my body.

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

I'd personally pick halo, but everyone has their preferences and favorites. Consider that there's a handful that end up disappointed with phera results. But you RARELY see anyone who ran 75-100mg of halo without getting at least satisfactory results.

IMO regarding phera length, I had a real hard time gaining any more lean mass after about 25-28 days. My fifth week was nothing but a strain on my body.

I think I have decided to run Phera stacked with Xtreme Tren. That will combine a wet compond with a dry one and also be a methelated/nonmethalated combo. Of course I will watch my sides and adjust the dosing accordingly.

 

[celc5]

I think I have decided to run Phera stacked with Xtreme Tren. That will combine a wet compond with a dry one and also be a methelated/nonmethalated combo. Of course I will watch my sides and adjust the dosing accordingly.

This is a real popular stack over on DA with fantastic feedback from what I've seen. Have some plans to prevent/combat prolactin issues, but otherwise you'll be strong as an ox :head:

If you log it, pm me the link. I'll follow along bro.

 

[Gtarzan81]

I think I have decided to run Phera stacked with Xtreme Tren. That will combine a wet compond with a dry one and also be a methelated/nonmethalated combo. Of course I will watch my sides and adjust the dosing accordingly.

Phera to be run at 4 weeks max. Dont go over 40 mg/day either:thumbsup:

 

[Silver3CSRT8]

Phera to be run at 4 weeks max. Dont go over 40 mg/day either:thumbsup:

I am leaning towards the following layout:
CEL P-Plex 30/30/30/30/0
Xtreme Tren 0/90/90/90/90

That would give me a 5 week cycle and allow me a week for the Phera to kick in before starting the Tren. I have also considered a 4 week stack with both compounds at the same time, but I think I like the 2 solo week options better. Does everyone agree that P-Plex should be started first?

 

[Bravoboy]

Phera/xtreme tren sounds awesome. I've used s-drol and havoc. never tried P-plex but looking forward to it. I will say that superdrol didn't give me many sides. I used it as a bridge boost for a cycle though. as far as havoc, well i did notice during week 3 more sides than on s-drol. weird i know. P-plex i would like due to not having to worry about dry joints and etc. just gettin big. This could also help with any elbow problems on cycle monsterbox!

 

[Gtarzan81]

I am leaning towards the following layout:
CEL P-Plex 30/30/30/30/0
Xtreme Tren 0/90/90/90/90

That would give me a 5 week cycle and allow me a week for the Phera to kick in before starting the Tren. I have also considered a 4 week stack with both compounds at the same time, but I think I like the 2 solo week options better. Does everyone agree that P-Plex should be started first?

you could flip it, as the phera takes a while to boot up, and the tren is known to kick in fairly fast.

I'm planning on running almost the exact same cycle, starting in january. I'm going to low dose the phera the first week, then go full for the next 2, with the tren at 90 the whole time.
So:
phera: 15-20/30/30/30
Tren: 90/90/90/90
That makes for a solid 4 weeker, if you want to shorten it a bit.

 

[celc5]

Either way should be fine, but GTarzan makes a good point with tren kicking in quickly.

The nice thing that you have going for you in this stack is that you should continue to see results with the low dose of phera. I ran phera 20/30/40/40/40. I wish I had a third bottle so I could have tried 50 and 60mg. But with the stack, you probably won't need more than 30.

Bravoboy, the joint issue with phera seems to be split down the middle. I personally had no joint issues with phera. But, when I was planning my cycle, I saw plenty of reviews and logs where phera aggravated joints. This was occasionally due to wreckless increases in weight, but also occassionally looked to be due to the compound itself.

 

[mixedup]

Just wait for it. It's gets better around the third and forth week.

Watch for back pumps though. I had them get so painful I was laying down between sets because it hurt to sit.

Yep plex doesn't kick in for me until at least day 15 i've run it numeros times including the org version

 

[monsterbox]

Either way should be fine, but GTarzan makes a good point with tren kicking in quickly.

The nice thing that you have going for you in this stack is that you should continue to see results with the low dose of phera. I ran phera 20/30/40/40/40. I wish I had a third bottle so I could have tried 50 and 60mg. But with the stack, you probably won't need more than 30.

Bravoboy, the joint issue with phera seems to be split down the middle. I personally had no joint issues with phera. But, when I was planning my cycle, I saw plenty of reviews and logs where phera aggravated joints. This was occasionally due to wreckless increases in weight, but also occassionally looked to be due to the compound itself.

NOO!! I can't handle anything that aggrivates joints...this is why I wanted to stack it with havoc so that havoc alone wouldnt kill my joints.

I thought wetness from phera helped the joints...does it not because its not estrogen based wetness and instead aldersterone?

F*CK!

 

[mxmadman]

NOO!! I can't handle anything that aggrivates joints...this is why I wanted to stack it with havoc so that havoc alone wouldnt kill my joints.

I thought wetness from phera helped the joints...does it not because its not estrogen based wetness and instead aldersterone?

F*CK!

Have you looked further into H-Drol? It's not as much of a bulker, like Phera and Havoc, but can still add some LBM while reducing fat.. At any rate, if you run the Phera at a relatively reasonable dose, and only increase 10mg per week, you should feel the dry joints coming and back off the dosing... or is it so severe that even a few days with this side could turn long term?

 

[Bravoboy]

We'll monster, you might just always go get you some animal flex or some super cissus. seems like if you need it it's probably worth getting anyway. funny thing is I never have joint issues. Obviously the older i get the more i can feel the effects of wheights on your tendons and joints. Still, go with some phera and throw in another compound. I really am contimplating doing it myself. I have all the works for my next havoc/ MMv2 cycle. more than enough. All i would need to do is buy some phera and keep the havoc. i really am interested in this compound. seems as if the jump from H-drol to epi is similar to the jump from epi to phera. (as far as weight gain and sides)

 

[monsterbox]

We'll monster, you might just always go get you some animal flex or some super cissus. seems like if you need it it's probably worth getting anyway. funny thing is I never have joint issues. Obviously the older i get the more i can feel the effects of wheights on your tendons and joints. Still, go with some phera and throw in another compound. I really am contimplating doing it myself. I have all the works for my next havoc/ MMv2 cycle. more than enough. All i would need to do is buy some phera and keep the havoc. i really am interested in this compound. seems as if the jump from H-drol to epi is similar to the jump from epi to phera. (as far as weight gain and sides)

I use bulk Cissus at 6 grams per day. This is a much as a normal dosage of super cissus rx or more.

I also use glucosamine/chondr/msm. I'm guessing animal flex would just be redundant at this point.

I ran havoc a few months ago 30/30/40/40. By the third week at 40mg, my elbow started getting worse and worse to the point I couldn't even do pushups. It was remarkably terrible. Mind blowingly painful. I thought I had injured myself without knowing it.

Discontinued havoc for 1 week...and took reversitol with 2 ai's in it and I felt better within a matter of 5-6 days!

Havoc is extremely dry to my joints.


At the time I was taking a half dosage of super cissus rx during the cycle and It didn't do sh*t.


Do you guys find phera to cause joint pain? I've heard D-Bol makes your joints feel better than natural lifting. And I've heard pheraplex compare to d-bol.