can we get a final word on this?

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    can we get a final word on this?


    Ok guys, I've done quite a bit of searching but haven't seen a consensus on this issue. Hopefully someone can clarify this for me, along with many others who may be wondering the same thing:

    For those of us who do not want to mess around with trying to obtain a SERM due to legality issues(for me, because of my line of work) or possibly health concerns (purity issues on research chems).......what would be OUR best option for doing that first PH cycle we've dreamed of:

    1. Havoc cycle with something like Reversitol and/or PCS as the PCT staple

    2. Havoc "pulse cycle" since it's milder..... say 4 weeks...maybe do the Reversitol/PCS just to make sure nothing goes wrong

    3. Something even milder, like H-Drol

    4. Forget it, PH's are not for us.

    Any advice?? Thanks!

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    4 !

    Never start any cycle without nolva. Althought you may go through cycle after cycle and not use it like i do, you may try a new compound or something that wont agree with you and thgen you will need it. It is a safty thing.
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    So - no matter how short of a pulse, or how low dose of a pulse - no matter what, you absolutely, positively, NEED a SERM on hand just in case???
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    Each to their own, but there is no way in hell id do any kind of PH without a SERM or strong AI on hand. It isnt worth the risk.
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    H-drol would be your best bet. Alot of people run a complete OTC PCT with it without a problem(myself included)It always helps to have a SERM on hand in case of problems. Post Cycle Support works well for a h-drol pct I will also post you a good link to read.

    http://www.otcpct.com
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    Well, there are risks with everything in life, so you have to decide how much is too much.

    If you are looking for legal alternatives to SERMs, PCS and Sustain Alpha are good choices here and both companies are sponsors of the board.
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    It is a great concern among many people and I feel that if you dont want to take care of yourself dont take anything that can possibly negatively impact you. You dont know how exactly any pills are made or under what circumstances, and research chems are no different, they can be made with the same discretion as the PH you would be taking. +there are compounds that do not require serms but like everyone has said a thousand times over it is most advisable to have one.
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    IMO a SERM is always good to have on hand no matter what cycle your running. These Anabolics all react differently and it is nice to have the SERM if problems come up. OTC PCT will work fine for some compounds for 95% of the people but if your one of the 5% that it does not the SERM is a blessing
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    to risky imo. although supps such as reversitol, prime, pcs, dth/dth 2010, igf2, rpm, drive might be 'possible' uses for pct, discretion
    would be valid....
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    On a Havoc pulse you would need to take Post Cycle Support on your off days.
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    You know for me it depends on the individual. I've seen alot of things come and GO..... There was a time When ANYTHING OTC was junk then came 4ad 1-test etc, There was a time when you ALWAYS had to run and injectable with and ORAl or lose all gains now we know thats not true. there was a time when stacking orals was something the was NEVER done now it's quite common and people are coming out ok. and 90% of the time from experience the same people who said ph's and ps's were junk never ran them, the same people who said you'd lose all your gains on an oral only cycle never ran run. Natural Serms and OTC PCT is fairly new I bet in time it will become just as regular a saying PH"S work. JUST not enough people have run them for it to be believed or proven etc. So Do your research and if you find the risks acceptable than go ahead. It's all what you feel comfortable with
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    Quote Originally Posted by mixedup View Post
    You know for me it depends on the individual. I've seen alot of things come and GO..... There was a time When ANYTHING OTC was junk then came 4ad 1-test etc, There was a time when you ALWAYS had to run and injectable with and ORAl or lose all gains now we know thats not true. there was a time when stacking orals was something the was NEVER done now it's quite common and people are coming out ok. and 90% of the time from experience the same people who said ph's and ps's were junk never ran them, the same people who said you'd lose all your gains on an oral only cycle never ran run. Natural Serms and OTC PCT is fairly new I bet in time it will become just as regular a saying PH"S work. JUST not enough people have run them for it to be believed or proven etc. So Do your research and if you find the risks acceptable than go ahead. It's all what you feel comfortable with
    True to that, but for now, since we do not know fully about OTC pct's and what not, i'd say its safer for him to run a SERM.

    We need to do a thread dedicated strictly to people who have used OTC pct and how the outcome was...but, we need people who did it several months ago, not 4 weeks ago so we can see the long term effects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardknock View Post
    True to that, but for now, since we do not know fully about OTC pct's and what not, i'd say its safer for him to run a SERM.

    We need to do a thread dedicated strictly to people who have used OTC pct and how the outcome was...but, we need people who did it several months ago, not 4 weeks ago so we can see the long term effects.
    Safer is relative my friend he said because of his employment the legal issue of a SERM is a big concern. I'm sure in time there will be enough people running otc pct that we will know the effects.

    NOW DON"T GET ME WRONG
    I'm not saying it's a bad idea to have a serm if you can get one easily and without worry i'm all for it but for lots of people, it's not as simple.


    and hey running a designer in itself is a risk i mean how long have some of these been out? it's not like some of the AAS that have been around for years that are put are by real pharma companies with FDA approval know what I mean?
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardknock View Post
    True to that, but for now, since we do not know fully about OTC pct's and what not, i'd say its safer for him to run a SERM.

    We need to do a thread dedicated strictly to people who have used OTC pct and how the outcome was...but, we need people who did it several months ago, not 4 weeks ago so we can see the long term effects.

    i ran "tren" at 60mg ed for 30 days and used 6-oxo for pct and recovered fine, kept 90% of my gains and got no gyno. i had blood work done too. i now use toremifene exclusively though, i find it to be much cheaper, quicker and more effective, but OTC pcts can and usually will work.
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