How far do you have to go?

Prometherion

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Okay, so if one were to try to make it to the national level for NPC shows, how far should this person expect to go as far as usage of hormones?

Now obviously everyone is different but what is normal or average for this level of competition? Should you expect to stay on year round? Does it take heavy use of Slin/Gh and such things?

I know some of you guys are going for this level or have trained guys on this level, so what's the consensus?
 
dg806

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Pretty much "on" all year. All types of gear used including GH and diuretics and slin. If you want to compete at that level, be prepared to do whatever is needed. It will get expensive.
 
holyintellect

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I train with an IFBB Pro who won five pro shows....I prep national level bodybuilders.....I would say that makes me qualified to answer this....unfortunately the answer is very hard to verbalize because I honestly feel that there are two types of bodybuilders (who juice)....the first is the guy with superior genetics who grows like a weed off of an amp a week...never takes anything except GH and a VERY small amount of anabolics...doesnt have to work crazy hard or diet to the extreme and is still peeled to the bone....The other guy is the guy who has to take buckets of gear at a time, and even though he will get huge, he'll never have the nice shape or structure that the first guy has...he will diet his ass off, and still not get peeled like the first guy.....he'll dabble in IGF and insulin looking for that final edge, and still not be razor sharp like the first guy....

Ive worked with both types, and I can honestly say how much and how far you go is up to what God laid in front of you...you can get there either way, but one is a helluva lot easier than the other.

holy
 
Prometherion

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I train with an IFBB Pro who won five pro shows....I prep national level bodybuilders.....I would say that makes me qualified to answer this....unfortunately the answer is very hard to verbalize because I honestly feel that there are two types of bodybuilders (who juice)....the first is the guy with superior genetics who grows like a weed off of an amp a week...never takes anything except GH and a VERY small amount of anabolics...doesnt have to work crazy hard or diet to the extreme and is still peeled to the bone....The other guy is the guy who has to take buckets of gear at a time, and even though he will get huge, he'll never have the nice shape or structure that the first guy has...he will diet his ass off, and still not get peeled like the first guy.....he'll dabble in IGF and insulin looking for that final edge, and still not be razor sharp like the first guy....

Ive worked with both types, and I can honestly say how much and how far you go is up to what God laid in front of you...you can get there either way, but one is a helluva lot easier than the other.

holy
Thanks guys.

Holy, would you say this is a somewhat common cycle for pre-contest? Would this fall into the harder category?(sorry for it being hard to read)

This is the actual pre-contest cycle Jason Arntz used to win the Nationals heavyweight & overall in 1998, thus earning him his pro card. Keep in mind that Jason was always very lean year round. Also, we didn't know as much as we do today...ENJOY.....10 WEEKS OUT..........SUSTENON>250mgs,eod/drop 10 days to show.........TESTOSTERONE PROPIONATE>100mgs,eod/alternating days with the sustenon/drop 5 days to show...........EQ>150mgs,eod/taken on the sustenon days/drop 10 days out.........PRIMO DEPOT>100mgs,eod/taken on the propionate days/drop 3 days out.........WINSTROL INJ.>100mgs,eod/on sustenon days/drop 2 days out.........D-BOL>45mgs,daily/split into three doses of 15mgs every 8 hours/from week 10 to week 6............ANADROL(replaces the d-bol)50mgs,daily/split into two doses of 25mgs,every 12 hours/from 5 to week 3///then up the ANADROL to 100mgs,daily/split into two doses of 50mgs,every 12 hours..........GH>6iu's daily/split up into two, 3iu doses,8am & post-workout(btwn 1 & 3 pm)/taken up to show...........T3>25mcgs,daily/one dose/from week 8 to week 4///then up the t3 to 50mcgs,daily/split into two doses of 25mcgs,every 12 hours/taken up to show........CLEN>80mcgs,daily/for weeks 10 & 9///120mcgs for weeks 8 & 7///160mcgs for weeks 6 & 5///200mcgs for weeks 4 up to the show..........HCG>4 weeks out(28 days)take 1,000iu's daily for 10 straight days ending 18 days out...........ARIMIDEX>0.5mg,daily/weeks 10 to 6///then up the dose to 1mg,daily from week 5 to show.............PROVIRON>50mgs,daily/weeks 8 to 6///then up the dose to 100mgs from week 5 to show..............NUBAIN>taken as needed(shots every hour/24 shots per day)..............DIAZIDE>begin Thurs. evening at bedtime/continue through the night show/doses every 6 hours(more or less).
 
papapumpsd

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Thanks guys.

Holy, would you say this is a somewhat common cycle for pre-contest? Would this fall into the harder category?(sorry for it being hard to read)

LOL, gimme a break! That's insane......that's a pharmacy w/legs.
 
Prometherion

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LOL, gimme a break! That's insane......that's a pharmacy w/legs.
lol I know, I'm alright with gear and GH and whatnot but all the pain killers and stuff...... ehhhhh, not so much.
 
dg806

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Damn thats a ton of crap. Personally, I don't see how a body can hold up to all that very long without some consequences.
 
sethroberts

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I train with an IFBB Pro who won five pro shows....I prep national level bodybuilders.....I would say that makes me qualified to answer this....unfortunately the answer is very hard to verbalize because I honestly feel that there are two types of bodybuilders (who juice)....the first is the guy with superior genetics who grows like a weed off of an amp a week...never takes anything except GH and a VERY small amount of anabolics...doesnt have to work crazy hard or diet to the extreme and is still peeled to the bone....The other guy is the guy who has to take buckets of gear at a time, and even though he will get huge, he'll never have the nice shape or structure that the first guy has...he will diet his ass off, and still not get peeled like the first guy.....he'll dabble in IGF and insulin looking for that final edge, and still not be razor sharp like the first guy....

Ive worked with both types, and I can honestly say how much and how far you go is up to what God laid in front of you...you can get there either way, but one is a helluva lot easier than the other.

holy
I agree with HolyIntellect but I would also factor in time. I have seen genetically gifted guys ruin their bodies by trying to get too far too fast. I have also seen ungifted guys who took their time and did pretty well. Kind of like the rabbit and the tortoise.
 
holyintellect

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Thanks guys.

Holy, would you say this is a somewhat common cycle for pre-contest? Would this fall into the harder category?(sorry for it being hard to read)
I find that cycle very hard to believe....now, I know some of that is true by looking at it, because I know some things about Jason...However, I have every single training log in my basement from my friends years competing as a pro...the Olympia, the Arnold, all of it...and it looks nothing like that....I wish I could divulge what it looks like, but Im sure you can understand that that would be a big breach of trust, and thats something I would never do...
 
Prometherion

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I find that cycle very hard to believe....now, I know some of that is true by looking at it, because I know some things about Jason...However, I have every single training log in my basement from my friends years competing as a pro...the Olympia, the Arnold, all of it...and it looks nothing like that....I wish I could divulge what it looks like, but Im sure you can understand that that would be a big breach of trust, and thats something I would never do...
For sure, I don't want to you post stuff you shouldn't. From what I understand, Jason had some problems with rec drugs, so I can understand that many may not use all those types of things.

Would someone have at least cruise year round to be at that level? I mean, like you said some have it easier, but do some cycle on and off? Maybe just a short PCT?
 
holyintellect

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Two years ago at the Arnold, we had another pro come over to us, and start talking freely about his "problems"....he had always cycled, and had never really played with anything besides anabolics and GH...he was having HUGE issues with his endocrine system, and some of the stuff he told me literally blew me away. I cannot honestly believe how cavalier some of the guys still are. This guy does not compete anymore and I havent even seen him at an event in the last year or so...

Bottom line is that I do believe there are still guys who do not use year round......and then there are guys who ABUSE year round....If you see offseason pics of certain pros, you can tell who isnt using year round...its pretty obvious...

holy
 
Prometherion

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Two years ago at the Arnold, we had another pro come over to us, and start talking freely about his "problems"....he had always cycled, and had never really played with anything besides anabolics and GH...he was having HUGE issues with his endocrine system, and some of the stuff he told me literally blew me away. I cannot honestly believe how cavalier some of the guys still are. This guy does not compete anymore and I havent even seen him at an event in the last year or so...

Bottom line is that I do believe there are still guys who do not use year round......and then there are guys who ABUSE year round....If you see offseason pics of certain pros, you can tell who isnt using year round...its pretty obvious...

holy
So pretty much depends on the person. Gotcha.

If i'm looking to compete at a high level within a few years and just now starting to cycle, should I think about some more aggressive cycling? It feels like i'm behind the 8 ball, but should I just be patient and follow normal protocols and see how it goes?
 
nephilim666

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ive been nearing a pro card over the past 2 years and what ive been putting my body through over the past 10 years has been pretty severe. ive tried igf-1 and not noticed much from it. gh works very well i cant ever deny that. slin does wonders when bulking but otherwise isnt worth the risk.

As for that prep i dont know anyone who preps like that, my last show i used gh, hrt dose sust, tren ,halostein, var ,and winny hcg and letro. i cycle with cruising periods in between using from 250-400mg enan depending on how much weight im trying to hold. right now im sitting around 260 at 12% and frankly im uncomfortable in my own skin. i cycle up and down but only end up putting on a few solid lbs per year. 10 lbs in the past year with the use of slin, and this has been my best gains since 2005. i never go over 2g test and never dose insane with other compounds as i find test to be best for size. primo does wonders at keeping me lean while i bulk.

Holy, i agree with you on the terms that there are people who can gain off much less than i can. i have friends who fit that bill, but at the same token when it comes time to diet down they have a harder time then i do. being geneticly lean all my life has helped me when it comes to shows but makes my offseason hell. i have friends who can blow up on 750 enan with some deca but when it comes time for them to cut they have a hard time holding onto muscle while burning off the fat, and this is with chemical assitance.

prometherion ( great song ) stick to cycling until your body wont hold any more lean weight off cycle, and if your serious about competing and are willing to try different methods give blasting a cruising a shot, and impliment some GH while you do that.
 

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