8 weeks tren or 4 weeks m-drol

[Bwhit]

I was originally going to stack these but i've been scared out of it. So I think im just going to run them by themselfs seperate. Which do you think would be the better PH for bulking? Im thinking tren for the winter bulk and M-drol for summer cut.

21 yrs
160lbs
3000 Cals/day
and pissing like a race horse(2 gallons water/day)

PCT for tren

6-oxo
Reversitol
Primal Male
Cycle Assist

PCT for mdrol
Nolva (not sure on doses yet)
or
Clomid
Cycle assist

 

[suncloud]

i'd add on some natural weight first. its really hard to keep your gains if you're not used to eating like a pig.

m-drol is better for mass gains - 10+ pounds + good strength = 2-3 week cycle (don't do 4 week)
tren is better for strength - 6-8 pounds mass + crazy strength = 4-6 week cycle (8 is pushing it but doable)

you'll loose most of it in PCT if you can't bulk above 160 pounds naturally. i'd keep bulking till 180-190 before you try a cycle.

 

[nosnmiveins]

completely agree with Suncloud on this

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

M-drol is better for a bulk and I agree 3 weeks is plenty and I would for sure run a SERM.

Nolva 20/20/20/20

Post Cycle Support 2 caps a.m. and 2 caps p.m.

 

[Bwhit]

i'd add on some natural weight first. its really hard to keep your gains if you're not used to eating like a pig.

m-drol is better for mass gains - 10+ pounds + good strength = 2-3 week cycle (don't do 4 week)
tren is better for strength - 6-8 pounds mass + crazy strength = 4-6 week cycle (8 is pushing it but doable)

you'll loose most of it in PCT if you can't bulk above 160 pounds naturally. i'd keep bulking till 180-190 before you try a cycle.

Well I ran an 8 week cycle of tren about 4 months ago and kept about 10lbs and kinda got thrown off during my pct (i think i would have kept more had i done it better). I weighed 150 and went up to 164. I've been gaining pretty much all year I just want to start off my winter bulk with a big leap. and continue to eat and eat. Im also trying to get a job at a gym soon and want to look my best so Im kinda set on taking them.

 

[suncloud]

okay, well if you just did tren, then my vote is with mdrol, though i'd still work on adjusting your diet first.

when you back to back cycle the same thing, your results get lower and lower.

 

[nosnmiveins]

if ur set on cycling then run a 3 weeks Mdrol for ur bulk and the "tren" for ur other cycle.


**if ur diet isnt up to par u wont keep ANY of ur gains...IF u can even make gains**

 

[Bwhit]

okay, well if you just did tren, then my vote is with mdrol, though i'd still work on adjusting your diet first.

when you back to back cycle the same thing, your results get lower and lower.

Well it was my first cycle...so this would be my second. How much lower would I be on my second cycle?

Im not really too sure how I should adjust my diet more tho?

 

[nosnmiveins]

Im not really too sure how I should adjust my diet more tho?

what does ur diet look like?

 

[Bwhit]

what does ur diet look like?

Well today i ate
a quesodilla which was about 700 calories

Then I had about 10ozs of chicken with about 8 oz potatoe saladim guessing its close to 700 calories

Im cooking and egg burrito right now with 4 eggs 2 tortillas
which is about lol 700 calories

I will eat again in about 1 1/2 hours about 500-700 more calories.

Then drink a Cyto Gainer shake w/banana which is about 930 calories

and i drank a gallon of water already today

should be a gallon and a half before bed.



thats just today though but it usually consists of 4 meals and a shake, Im also taking a multivitamin with a fruit veggie blend.

 

[crazyfool405]

Well today i ate
a quesodilla which was about 700 calories

Then I had about 10ozs of chicken with about 8 oz potatoe saladim guessing its close to 700 calories

Im cooking and egg burrito right now with 4 eggs 2 tortillas
which is about lol 700 calories

I will eat again in about 1 1/2 hours about 500-700 more calories.

Then drink a Cyto Gainer shake w/banana which is about 930 calories

and i drank a gallon of water already today

should be a gallon and a half before bed.



thats just today though but it usually consists of 4 meals and a shake, Im also taking a multivitamin with a fruit veggie blend.

try 6-9 smaller meals. and you know that 4 whole eggs is only 24g protein, you should up that by 20more grams of protein, not sure how much protein is in the quesodilla, but thats definetly not a good choice for a meal.

 

[nosnmiveins]

u need 5-6 meals. add some red meat in there somewhere as well as chicken breast.

i dont do protein shakes or weight gainers. i gain by eating REAL food. im sure id be a lot bigger if i wasnt the average poor college student.

 

[Bwhit]

u need 5-6 meals. add some red meat in there somewhere as well as chicken breast.

i dont do protein shakes or weight gainers. i gain by eating REAL food. im sure id be a lot bigger if i wasnt the average poor college student.

I'd be alot bigger if my pockets were also lol!

5-6 meals is easier said than done, I mean id have to smoke some bud at night to pack down number 6 but i think the Cyto Gainer shake makes up for a meal. I mean it has more calories than almost every meal i ate. and when im eating 5-6 meals my pockets start to feel a little smaller lol.

and 1 tortilla has
210 calories
6g protein
36g carbs and
5g of fat
and i use 2 per quesodilla

When your out and about though its a little harder to eat. Especially a big meal. thats why im using the Cyto Gainer.

My main focus is just trying to eat eat eat. and last time I was on tren i felt like a starving bear no matter what I ate lol

 

[animaleater2]

Cant believe how many are out there playing with hormones when clearly they dont know how to eat, train and havn't even scratched the surface of there genetic potential. Out of curiosity bwhit - how old are you, how many years have you been training?

There are no quick fixes mate. All you are going to do is tear your body and natural hormones. I promise I am not a hater, I just want to not see you get hurt.

 

[nosnmiveins]

last time I was on tren i felt like a starving bear no matter what I ate lol

:toofunny:....reps for this

 

[Bwhit]

Cant believe how many are out there playing with hormones when clearly they dont know how to eat, train and havn't even scratched the surface of there genetic potential. Out of curiosity bwhit - how old are you, how many years have you been training?

There are no quick fixes mate. All you are going to do is tear your body and natural hormones. I promise I am not a hater, I just want to not see you get hurt.

Playing with hormones is clearly an overstatement.

Is there somthing severely wrong with how I am dieting?
What do you eat?

and if gaining 10lbs in 3 weeks is not a quick fix i dont know what is.

Im taking prohormones for the same reasons anyone does. If you're a real hard trainer and do so good why would you take prohormones? I think the answer to that would be the same answer as anyone else. To get stronger, bigger, and look better. I mean I really can't beleive prohormones were made for people with six packs benching 280lbs.

They have severe side effects I know, but so does plastic surgery. So does drinking, drug abuse, unprotected sex. I understand the dangers as everyone should, and im choosing to take them.

I took them before gained 14lbs kept 10lbs and 70% of the strength. No sides. Went to the doctor and guess what, Im healthy.

You're stating alot of opinions and little facts my friend.

Im 21 years old

been training for 3 years

and im taking PHs right along side my trainer whos been training for 10+ years and knows about as much as I do about PHs.

so does length of training have to do with the knowledge of prohormones?

i appreciate your concern but I already know the dangers my friend.

 

[crazilyfter42]

u need 5-6 meals. add some red meat in there somewhere as well as chicken breast.

i dont do protein shakes or weight gainers. i gain by eating REAL food. im sure id be a lot bigger if i wasnt the average poor college student.

Amen to that! I just started my bulk for the upcoming colder months and it sucks trying to do it on a college budget. Not to mention the schedule screws you up. Not always time for strict diet.

 

[suncloud]

Im taking prohormones for the same reasons anyone does. If you're a real hard trainer and do so good why would you take prohormones

its not really that simple.

sure you can start out at 5'11" and 150 and cycle your whole life and get to 220 pounds. maybe 7 cycles is the magic number for you. but here's the question. if you could get to 210 naturally, and cycle once, isn't that a better answer, not only in long term steroid use effects (still unknown), but with regards to keeping that weight. if you can't bulk naturally, you might have to do a cycle, then loose weight in PCT, then await your next cycle to gain what you don't know how to maintain. you can play that game your whole life, but i don't think its the best answer.

i have a smaller frame than you (for sure, not a guess), and started this out at 5'9" and 126 - in june of 06. here's a pic to prove my point. this was me :

i got to 175 naturally, did one cycle of tren (6 pound gain in 23 days), and maintained 181 for half a year after my cycle - no weight lost in PCT. honestly, in my opinion, you should be way more concerned about your diet. 2300 calories is not a bulking diet - i don't care who you are. here's me at 181 pounds - taken a couple weeks ago :

i'm not saying this to toot my own horn - if you want to cycle for the next two years to gain something you could naturally get, thats your choice - and your long term health risks. i would get to where your natural potential is, or close to it - thats 180-200 pounds. i guarantee you'd be much happier about yourself.

also, think about it like this : do you want people to come up and ask you what you did to get to where you are and say "just take roids", or do you want to be the guy that says "roids has its place, but gain everything you can naturally first?"

again, the choice is yours, but if you knew how to gain naturally, you'd be in a position to HELP the members of said gym into achieving their goals. especially the younger ones that for obvious reasons can't take gear. whats going to be your answer to the old you - a 5'11" 150 pound 17 year old that comes in looking to gain some size? wait four years and take Dbol? just a thought.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/training-forum/99607-gaining-mass-nutshell.html

eat more brotha. that will make your gains when you do cycle, so much more impressive - i mean like those guys that take mdrol and gain 20 pounds. again, not being an ass here, i'd just like you to be in a position to help the people that you'll be seeing every day. i think ultimately that will make you happier about not only your size, but how much of a help you can be to the guys who come in looking to be pointed in the right direction.

ultimately, again, its your choice in what you want to do here. with that, good luck in your endeavors. :head:

 

[crazyfool405]

u need 5-6 meals. add some red meat in there somewhere as well as chicken breast.

i dont do protein shakes or weight gainers. i gain by eating REAL food. im sure id be a lot bigger if i wasnt the average poor college student.

yes im poor college student too, but i bulk order my protein and weight gainers so they last me 6 months, so if i dont have time, i have weight gainer, or regular protein that i add weight control cinnomon oatmeal and olive oil to it to make my own weight gainer with 48g protein 30g carb and 15-20g fat.

 

[Marsh11]

Damn suncloud nice transformation. You are a prime example on how to put weight on naturally and not just look for a quick fix. Doesnt even look like the same person.

 

[Bwhit]

its not really that simple.

sure you can start out at 5'11" and 150 and cycle your whole life and get to 220 pounds. maybe 7 cycles is the magic number for you. but here's the question. if you could get to 210 naturally, and cycle once, isn't that a better answer, not only in long term steroid use effects (still unknown), but with regards to keeping that weight. if you can't bulk naturally, you might have to do a cycle, then loose weight in PCT, then await your next cycle to gain what you don't know how to maintain. you can play that game your whole life, but i don't think its the best answer.

i have a smaller frame than you (for sure, not a guess), and started this out at 5'9" and 126 - in june of 06. here's a pic to prove my point. this was me

i got to 175 naturally, did one cycle of tren (6 pound gain in 23 days), and maintained 181 for half a year after my cycle - no weight lost in PCT. honestly, in my opinion, you should be way more concerned about your diet. 2300 calories is not a bulking diet - i don't care who you are. here's me at 181 pounds - taken a couple weeks ago

i'm not saying this to toot my own horn - if you want to cycle for the next two years to gain something you could naturally get, thats your choice - and your long term health risks. i would get to where your natural potential is, or close to it - thats 180-200 pounds. i guarantee you'd be much happier about yourself.

also, think about it like this : do you want people to come up and ask you what you did to get to where you are and say "just take roids", or do you want to be the guy that says "roids has its place, but gain everything you can naturally first?"

again, the choice is yours, but if you knew how to gain naturally, you'd be in a position to HELP the members of said gym into achieving their goals. especially the younger ones that for obvious reasons can't take gear. whats going to be your answer to the old you - a 5'11" 150 pound 17 year old that comes in looking to gain some size? wait four years and take Dbol? just a thought.

eat more brotha. that will make your gains when you do cycle, so much more impressive - i mean like those guys that take mdrol and gain 20 pounds. again, not being an ass here, i'd just like you to be in a position to help the people that you'll be seeing every day. i think ultimately that will make you happier about not only your size, but how much of a help you can be to the guys who come in looking to be pointed in the right direction.

ultimately, again, its your choice in what you want to do here. with that, good luck in your endeavors. :head:

Do you really think PHs is the only answer to someone stuck in their training? I mean even to the hardest of trainer I'd still say its not the right answer and there are ways out of plataues.

and diet is important but you can still make gains on tren without eating 6 meals a day. 6 meals a day is an option eating healthy is a requirment.

So if im eating healthy training hard and drinking lots of water im bound to make some gains and will have pics to back it up. I take my diet serious but im not going to give up on training if I dont eat 4000 calories. Plus tren is like an appetite stimulant and makes you eat more, so chances are im going to have to cut down on my eating in a week haha jk (ill eat everything)

I completely agree with you on everything but I just wanted to know what would be a better PH. If i was concerned with my diet or my training i would have went to the diet forum and asked for help with my diet.
Its easy to come on here and say whats wrong but I hate when people say "dont do this" and never say what i should be doing instead.

and who knows maybe you'll change my mind for the better. and i do thank you for your advice its a good thing to get this kind of advice because natural is the best and somtimes we forget.

but no one on here has taken PHs without looking for a quick fix. i mean look at the biggest forums on here full of people looking for information.

and not to knock on any one, but some guys running their PH logs look like total garbage. I've seen maybe 3 guys that are actually looking how id want to look. Other than that theres alot of people I wouldnt want to look like. even their main pic makes me curious as to how their cycle went because they look like they dont even work out lol.

I have good physique and plan on getting pics up soon to back myself up and show some before and afters. Then maybe people will be asking me for advice haha

 

[nosnmiveins]

Do you really think PHs is the only answer to someone stuck in their training? I mean even to the hardest of trainer I'd still say its not the right answer and there are ways out of plataues.

and diet is important but you can still make gains on tren without eating 6 meals a day. 6 meals a day is an option eating healthy is a requirment.

So if im eating healthy training hard and drinking lots of water im bound to make some gains and will have pics to back it up. I take my diet serious but im not going to give up on training if I dont eat 4000 calories. Plus tren is like an appetite stimulant and makes you eat more, so chances are im going to have to cut down on my eating in a week haha jk (ill eat everything)

I completely agree with you on everything but I just wanted to know what would be a better PH. If i was concerned with my diet or my training i would have went to the diet forum and asked for help with my diet.
Its easy to come on here and say whats wrong but I hate when people say "dont do this" and never say what i should be doing instead.

and who knows maybe you'll change my mind for the better. and i do thank you for your advice its a good thing to get this kind of advice because natural is the best and somtimes we forget.

but no one on here has taken PHs without looking for a quick fix. i mean look at the biggest forums on here full of people looking for information.

and not to knock on any one, but some guys running their PH logs look like total garbage. I've seen maybe 3 guys that are actually looking how id want to look. Other than that theres alot of people I wouldnt want to look like. even their main pic makes me curious as to how their cycle went because they look like they dont even work out lol.

I have good physique and plan on getting pics up soon to back myself up and show some before and afters. Then maybe people will be asking me for advice haha

more power to u bro. im one that believes as long as u know the in's and out's of substances and diet and training are on point....then i see no problem with running DS/PH or even AAS (injectable).

knowledge is POWER in this game.

 

[suncloud]

Do you really think PHs is the only answer to someone stuck in their training? I mean even to the hardest of trainer I'd still say its not the right answer and there are ways out of plataues.

I completely agree with you on everything but I just wanted to know what would be a better PH. If i was concerned with my diet or my training i would have went to the diet forum and asked for help with my diet.
Its easy to come on here and say whats wrong but I hate when people say "dont do this" and never say what i should be doing instead.

and who knows maybe you'll change my mind for the better. and i do thank you for your advice its a good thing to get this kind of advice because natural is the best and somtimes we forget.

but no one on here has taken PHs without looking for a quick fix. i mean look at the biggest forums on here full of people looking for information.

and not to knock on any one, but some guys running their PH logs look like total garbage. I've seen maybe 3 guys that are actually looking how id want to look. Other than that theres alot of people I wouldnt want to look like. even their main pic makes me curious as to how their cycle went because they look like they dont even work out lol.

I have good physique and plan on getting pics up soon to back myself up and show some before and afters. Then maybe people will be asking me for advice haha

brotha. if steroids or PH's are the way you want to go, thats your choice. i'm simply putting the thought out there that you can get the gains you want right now naturally.

at 5'11" and 160, you have tons of room to grow without putting those in your system. if you want to give it a run, go for it.

towards answering your question, i'd go for M-drol for a couple reasons.

1 - you just did tren
2 - mdrol is a better mass builder

tren is pretty good for mass, but you might run into a problem with it that some people have. you know those guys that get a prescription for vicodin? they take the bottle, then when they need it refilled, they burn through it faster? its because your body has built up a tolerance to the medication.

i have a friend (probably a very rare case), that gained nothing off his second cycle of tren. absolutely nothing. his first run with it, he gained 15 pounds in a month. for that reason, i'd say to take the mdrol just so your body will not "adapt" to the tren.

i'll admit most people will probably never have this problem, but the second cycle of the same compound always yields lesser results.

my point in what i said earlier was that by adjusting your diet, you can make great gains there. if mdrol is the way to go for you, then adjust your diet while cycling it, and i'll bet you'll be blown away by the results. 4k clean calories will net you pretty huge gains - provided your mono fat etc is high.

i also think you'd make a great selling point to a gym by saying "look what i know about a proper diet". you could become the nutritional expert in your gym, whether for cutting or bulking or both. you can explain to people how little sense it makes to do cardio for a 300 calorie burn, then drink a mocha at starbucks and take in 450 calories - which is the downfall of most cardio lovers. happy clients = more customers = guaranteed job in a recession. anyways, above everything else, be safe, cycle right, and PCT properly and you'll do great.

again, best of luck to you.

 

[suncloud]

more power to u bro. im one that believes as long as u know the in's and out's of substances and diet and training are on point....then i see no problem with running DS/PH or even AAS (injectable).

knowledge is POWER in this game.

at 3000 calories, that was really the point i was trying to make. 3k calories on mdrol will be a lethargic nightmare. headaches from not enough carbs, etc. tren jacked my calorie intake to around 5k pretty quick - i can only imagine what something that makes you bigger even faster would do.

nosnmiveins - i have huge respect for you, and my steroid knowledge is not spectacular - this is your area of expertise.

 

[nosnmiveins]

nosnmiveins - i have huge respect for you, and my steroid knowledge is not spectacular - this is your area of expertise.

thanks bro

 

[UnrealMachine]

I think our standards are slipping.

I believe in the basic tenets of freedom and choice but we all know we're messing substances that are borderline legal at best; substances that many don't approve of because they are extremely powerful and can have long-term adverse effects on the body.

Around the boards we like to have certain standards before people start using these.
Age is the first basic standard to minimize the chances of damaging the users endocrine system, stunting their growth, etc.
Next we look to how experienced someone is with weightlifting. Newbs who haven't gained much naturally usually DON'T KNOW HOW to gain. They don't know the best way to train, they don't know diet, and they don't know steroids.

These people should gain naturally -- figure out training & diet, and in the meantime research the substances.

Before i ran anything, I had read at least a dozen logs on it, had been researching it for months, I could give a frigging speech on dosing, duration, side effects, and the overall nature of the compound. You should be a frigging expert on this stuff if you're going to mess with it.

OP you are too small to be doing something as hardcore as 8 weeks of tren or 4 weeks of Superdrol.

Honestly, I think I jumped into the prohormone thing pretty quickly, and like i said, i'm very familiar with the material and did a lot of research! You can only gain from waiting...

So, i think I started sooner than i ideally SHOULD have, and with that said, here's the first time i'm posting a picture of mine

http://i35.tinypic.com/1z1fs7k.jpg

I've only been training for 3 years.

People say they've been training for 3 years and they are 5'11 160 I am thinking: how the **** do you train?

 

[nosnmiveins]

looking awesome Unreal, how many cycles have u run and what were they?

 

[moklepaul]

http://i35.tinypic.com/1z1fs7k.jpg

I've only been training for 3 years.

People say they've been training for 3 years and they are 5'11 160 I am thinking: how the **** do you train?

:goodpost:

"Training" is a very subjective term.

 

[UnrealMachine]

looking awesome Unreal, how many cycles have u run and what were they?

i've done a few but as i've said in some of my posts, my body doesn't respond well to many compounds

1) Halodrol 50 and Prostanozolol
0 gains
Either they were bunk or i don't respond to those compounds, i noticed zero anabolic effects and was pretty pissed, I don't really count this as a cycle

2) Phera 30/30/30
gained about 10 pounds but it was a lot of bloat that mostly subsided within a month or two
I learned that I needed to run longer cycles

3) Epistane pulse for 8 weeks
0 gains, I was cutting
I felt pumps and veins from Epi, but lost some muscle during the cut, lost strength too
I later found out that I don't respond to Epi

4) Epi->SD bridge
This is where i found out i don't respond to Epi. 4 weeks and i had no strength gains and about 5 pounds of weight gain from eating more.
During the SD part i blew up


lesson learned: PheraPlex and SD are the only substances I respond to and I need to run long durations in order to maintain any of the gains.

Basically I haven't kept much of my cycle gains. Most of what I have, i built naturally. Overall i'm pretty disappointed with PHs and so in a few months (early 09) I will be starting injectables.

The fundamental problem with orals is the toxicity limits the dose and duration too much. With injectables you can run a stack of 2 or even 3 compounds for 2 or 3 times the duration. It's a no-brainer.

Anyway I was just trying to show why I'm disappointed that people always come jumping through this forum with stats that remind me of the 9th and 10th grade football players and they're anxious to start up heavy cycles of orals and they don't even know how to eat yet... no respect for the potency of steroids IMO.

:goodpost:

"Training" is a very subjective term.

Exactly. I know a good many people around here buff up the # of years they have been training by including time when they weren't gaining because they were lifting casually, or if they lifted on/off over the years they'll just include all the years, etc. Then they can say they've been lifting for X years, hence they're ready for steroids... not so simple.

 

[Bwhit]

brotha. if steroids or PH's are the way you want to go, thats your choice. i'm simply putting the thought out there that you can get the gains you want right now naturally.

at 5'11" and 160, you have tons of room to grow without putting those in your system. if you want to give it a run, go for it.

towards answering your question, i'd go for M-drol for a couple reasons.

1 - you just did tren
2 - mdrol is a better mass builder

tren is pretty good for mass, but you might run into a problem with it that some people have. you know those guys that get a prescription for vicodin? they take the bottle, then when they need it refilled, they burn through it faster? its because your body has built up a tolerance to the medication.

i have a friend (probably a very rare case), that gained nothing off his second cycle of tren. absolutely nothing. his first run with it, he gained 15 pounds in a month. for that reason, i'd say to take the mdrol just so your body will not "adapt" to the tren.

i'll admit most people will probably never have this problem, but the second cycle of the same compound always yields lesser results.

my point in what i said earlier was that by adjusting your diet, you can make great gains there. if mdrol is the way to go for you, then adjust your diet while cycling it, and i'll bet you'll be blown away by the results. 4k clean calories will net you pretty huge gains - provided your mono fat etc is high.

i also think you'd make a great selling point to a gym by saying "look what i know about a proper diet". you could become the nutritional expert in your gym, whether for cutting or bulking or both. you can explain to people how little sense it makes to do cardio for a 300 calorie burn, then drink a mocha at starbucks and take in 450 calories - which is the downfall of most cardio lovers. happy clients = more customers = guaranteed job in a recession. anyways, above everything else, be safe, cycle right, and PCT properly and you'll do great.

again, best of luck to you.

Thank you very much for the response. Its alot easier to talk to people when they take you seriously and i appreciate that. It makes it much easier to read. I was thinking of taking a nutrition class to gain that extra knowledge

People say they've been training for 3 years and they are 5'11 160 I am thinking: how the **** do you train?

Well considering I started at 120lbs when I was 18, 160 is pretty good. I'll admit I wasn't as serious as I could have been for the first 2 years and this year I started dedicating alot more and just keeping that good rythm. I haven't always been into just bulking, I like to be fit not neccesarily a massive body builder and honestly I'll be happy at 175lbs. I like bulking but its somthing that i'd do only for so long. I don't really like eating clean allll the time and i dont think anyone does. Cheeseburgers taste alot better than chicken and rice IMO.

Training is all in the eyes of the trainer. Your the one who chooses to look the way you want to look. Theres nothing wrong with weighing 160lbs its sure as hell better than 120. When I feel like bulking ill bulk, But I enjoy some time to relax and focus on school and work. and and maybe when I get on my 5th cycle of steroids ill be as big as you. **** maybe ill be bigger. but remember training is a lifetime thing not a temporary thing. I hope to have alot to show in 20 more years. but dont come downtalking people you dont know training is not just about bulking and doing steriods and trying to weigh more than everyone else.

 

[UnrealMachine]

training is not just about bulking and doing steriods and trying to weigh more than everyone else.

Well if you have such a modest goal like 5'11 175, why use steroids to get there

What you are saying is, in effect, that you haven't been lifting for size and don't even care much about size. The question is, then, why the hell do you need steroids?

We use them to push through genetic barriers, not so we can eat cheeseburgers and quesodillas but still maintain a "beach build"

You can do what you want and this site will give you the help you need. Nobody has a right to tell you what to do. But I feel I need to speak up for the conservative end of this issue.

On the more AAS-based boards, more of the users started using later in life, after many years of natural lifting, and have far advanced physiques. It seems that the oral "prohormone" deal has attracted too many casual users, and very young users, who lack proper respect for the compounds they are using.


All my opinion. I don't just use the substances to accomplish easy work for me, i use them to expand my potential.

 

[moklepaul]

Wasn't trying to make fun of you mate. Starting from 120 you're on the right track it seems. I'd still push for 175 natty before you cycle, but if you do it right I don't think you'll hurt yourself.

 

[Bwhit]

Well if you have such a modest goal like 5'11 175, why use steroids to get there

What you are saying is, in effect, that you haven't been lifting for size and don't even care much about size. The question is, then, why the hell do you need steroids?
We use them to push through genetic barriers, not so we can eat cheeseburgers and quesodillas but still maintain a "beach build"

You can do what you want and this site will give you the help you need. Nobody has a right to tell you what to do. But I feel I need to speak up for the conservative end of this issue.

On the more AAS-based boards, more of the users started using later in life, after many years of natural lifting, and have far advanced physiques. It seems that the oral "prohormone" deal has attracted too many casual users, and very young users, who lack proper respect for the compounds they are using.


All my opinion. I don't just use the substances to accomplish easy work for me, i use them to expand my potential.

Tren is labeled for dry lean gains. Id be using them to gain the weight I desire then maintain it. Maybe i do have room to grow naturaly but i think having this room to grow is just going to make the PH more effective.


And you know this and so do i, you dont need a PH to expand your potential. There are numerous ways to get out of a plateau a natural way. everyone knows that. so i dont beleive that someone so dedicated to natural gaining would look to PHs. Steroids is cheating plain and simple, I dont think it really matters who you are. Its damaging and is bad for your body.

and how much did you weigh before you started training 3 years ago? I bet it was a whole lot more than 120lbs meaning you have a bigger bone structure and a lower metabolism. Me I eat and eat and eat and eat and gain small amount of weight. Its been that way the whole time i've worked out. Its frustrating, and If i ate 5000 calories a day for a whole month I'd maybe gain 2lbs.

your telling me you ran 4-5 cycles but how much did you gain from each. and at what weight did you take them? how much did these cycles help you?

i really doubt you had 5 points in your training where you just could not gain what so ever.

and the fact your going to injectables, i know they are safer but your headed down a steroid path. by the time your 26 you'll have done 12 cycles at the rate your going. I wouldn't want to be your body after that.

I hope you dont look to steroids everytime you get stuck. because I gaurentee your going to get stuck alot more. How can you not be happy with yourself? I mean you look awsome I give that to you. Whats your next goal? And what are you hoping to acheive from injectables that you couldn't do naturally?

 

[UnrealMachine]

you dont need a PH to expand your potential.

Try gaining 50 pounds and then see how fast your natural gains come

and how much did you weigh before you started training 3 years ago? I bet it was a whole lot more than 120lbs meaning you have a bigger bone structure and a lower metabolism. Me I eat and eat and eat and eat and gain small amount of weight. Its been that way the whole time i've worked out. Its frustrating, and If i ate 5000 calories a day for a whole month I'd maybe gain 2lbs.

I've heard the "i'm a poor little ecto i need steroids" thing so many times it doesn't phase me much

your telling me you ran 4-5 cycles but how much did you gain from each. and at what weight did you take them? how much did these cycles help you?

if you have even been reading your own thread, that info is all on the last page. They didn't help much, I don't respond well to most compounds.

and the fact your going to injectables, i know they are safer but your headed down a steroid path. by the time your 26 you'll have done 12 cycles at the rate your going. I wouldn't want to be your body after that.

At the rate i'm going, when i'm 26 i'll look frigging amazing. You are saying you will subject your body to the same amount of cycles but not even look like a juicer because you don't take it seriously.

I hope you dont look to steroids everytime you get stuck. because I gaurentee your going to get stuck alot more. How can you not be happy with yourself? I mean you look awsome I give that to you. Whats your next goal? And what are you hoping to acheive from injectables that you couldn't do naturally?

Well when you come to look like me you'll find the natural gains are kind of slow. I can bulk easily, but my bodyfat will jump out of control. Injectables will take me to 240+ and less than 10% bodyfat. Real goals! ...you don't need steroids to get to 5'11 175 pounds.

 

[Bwhit]

Try gaining 50 pounds and then see how fast your natural gains come



I've heard the "i'm a poor little ecto i need steroids" thing so many times it doesn't phase me much



if you have even been reading your own thread, that info is all on the last page. They didn't help much, I don't respond well to most compounds.



At the rate i'm going, when i'm 26 i'll look frigging amazing. You are saying you will subject your body to the same amount of cycles but not even look like a juicer because you don't take it seriously.



Well when you come to look like me you'll find the natural gains are kind of slow. I can bulk easily, but my bodyfat will jump out of control. Injectables will take me to 240+ and less than 10% bodyfat. Real goals! ...you don't need steroids to get to 5'11 175 pounds.

Basicly all im saying is, no one NEEDS steroids. They are just as bad for you as they are for me, and everyone else. I never said I needed steroids. I just wanted to gain some extra weight real quick plus it really does help the strength/looks which feels good. But Ive changed up my plan and decided to start a cycle in about 3 months, because alot of you are right. I can gain some natural weight right now so i might as well.

New goals for me:
1) hit 175 all natural
2)hit 185 with M-Drol
3) keep my 6% body fat
4) eat at least 3000 calories a day for 3 months.

I've gained 40lbs already. Also Im at about 6% body fat.

So thanks to all of you, Im headed in a little bit different direction now. Still gonna do a cycle but Im gonna wait and try to gain up naturally.

UnrealMachine good luck to you bro, let me know how the injectables go. And thanks for the respones they do help even tho they are a bit critical! haha jk im just glad i started this thread and got my head on that much straighter.


THANKS AGAIN EVERYBODY AND ANABOLIC MINDS!!


p.s. UnrealMachine how much did you weigh when you started working out, just curious. And how much did you weigh at each cycle you did?

 

[UnrealMachine]

Well i'm glad you are deciding to train up a bit more naturally before you start another cycle. I would be sure to eat more than 3k calories for the next few months, try to get 3500 calories a day, at least. If you really have a hard time gaining weight i wouldn't hesitate to increase cals.

I was being critical but that's just my moral take on things. I'm sure the injectables will go well, but of course this forum will know.

I was 6'1 175 when i started. I got up to 6'1 240 by the time i did the Phera cycle, but i was pretty flabby. Since then i've just been trying to get my bodyfat down without losing anything

My cycles -- half of them didn't affect me, and i've gone up and down after doing the others. But i did talk about that all on the last page remember, I detailed every one i did.

 

[Bwhit]

My cycles -- half of them didn't affect me, and i've gone up and down after doing the others. But i did talk about that all on the last page remember, I detailed every one i did.

I was curious as to what weight you were at (180lbs ect.?), at each cycle. Not just how much you gained but how much you weighed. Did you run those cycles back to back or are they spaced out? maybe some dates?

You should try xtreme tren, i hear it works for alot of people and isnt as stressful on the liver as other compounds.

 

[mixedup]

Bwhit Good for you. and as you said Knowledge is power in this game. One thing you didn't note and I know it was a goal is your desire to gain weight quick through these compounds. You need to remember the quicker the weight gained the quicker it is to lose because your body has a natural set point that is why slow weight naturally is kept easier. also the more muscle you gain the more calories you will need to eat Daily so your calories a day need to keep going up to keep the extra weight your are putting on. with your frame like most people said 3000 calories a day isnt' that much hell on some days 3000 calories would be below maintenance fore me so I actually be losing weight if I only took in 3000 calories.

 

[Bwhit]

Bwhit Good for you. and as you said Knowledge is power in this game. One thing you didn't note and I know it was a goal is your desire to gain weight quick through these compounds. You need to remember the quicker the weight gained the quicker it is to lose because your body has a natural set point that is why slow weight naturally is kept easier. also the more muscle you gain the more calories you will need to eat Daily so your calories a day need to keep going up to keep the extra weight your are putting on. with your frame like most people said 3000 calories a day isnt' that much hell on some days 3000 calories would be below maintenance fore me so I actually be losing weight if I only took in 3000 calories.

Thanks for the post man, ya I figured I might as well, I mean I know I can gain, these just make you gain alot faster. But I can be patient. And ya 3000 calories isnt much thats why I said at least 3000 calories, meaning If I have an off day which I know I will, I wont settle for less than 3000. I know 5000 calories is pretty hard to do every day and I dont want to beat myself up too much if I dont eat enough.

I find that training is alot of mental power (hence the reason so many benifit from supplements), and leaving room for let downs is somthing I do a little too often. If I dont go to the gym for a few days i feel like its been a month and I beat myself up over it. So setting a reasonable goal for myself tends to lead me in a better, more solid, direction.

I think what happens is people will take a supplement and since they are taking it they feel they need to train twice as hard. This leads to them beleiving its the supplement helping when actually its the twice as hard training thats giving the majority of the gains.

Also I find that even at 2000 calories I maintain weight. Its when I go below that I start losing. So 3000 calories Is pretty fair, not quite good enough to bulk but good enough to maintain. So if I eat 3000 calories 3 days a week and 5000 calories 4 days a week I will definently be gaining. Hopefully I can discipline myself enough to eat 5000 calories a day, everyday for 3 months but I highly doubt I will be able to afford it financialy and find enough time every day to do this.

Im looking to find a good diet plan so If anyone has one that works for them let me know!

Till then ill be making my own.

 

[mixedup]

Yeah dont' beat yourself up if you miss a day of calories or they gym just get right back in their or right back on your meal plan. as long as you are eating at or above maintenance each day you will grow. If you can't make 5000 go 4000 it's just like if i can't get in a 45min cardio session and I can get 20 then i get 20min in and make the most of the time i have. just stay consistent and keep your goals in mind and you'll do great.